Heim joints good/bad??

[dnixon]

Okay while cruising various offroad sites i see that many people decided to go with heim joints when they do their crossover steering..i was just wondering what are the benefits and draw backs to doing this?? What are the road characteristics of these guys? Or how about some of those Johnny Joints?

[ February 04, 2003, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: SLOwag aka-dnixon ]

[River Beast]

depends on how you modified the steering components to the point that you NEED the heim joints....you can get high steer arms for heims or standard bevel cut to accept standard ball joint rod ends. the choice is up to you...

[dnixon]

I have been reading on the internet and haven't found anything regarding 4x4's but have on other types of vehicles.. A lot have been saying that they aren't for street due to their lack of a bushing material which will transfer vibrations and eventually break other components.. I was just wondering if you all had heard anything supporting this..

Thanks todd for the response!

[RustyJeep]

Also they can be dangerous for street driving if not mounted in the double-sheer format.

[dharmabum]

I have used heims on the street on my 68 CJ5 SOA, hi-steer, etc... mainly because we ran them on our race cars so they were available to me for free at the time. They worked ok but wore out pretty quick on the road and transmitted a little more vibration, roughness through the steering. The seals which I installed didn't really seem to help with sand and mud either and I think if I was to do it over again I would get the larger regular style tapered rod ends and taper-ream the steering arms to match.

[dnixon]

thats what it sounds like i am going to do... I was just wondering.. The PBB guys throw heims on everything.. man those guys spend a lot of money...

[jode]

I guess the real question is do the normal taper joints bind up your steering? I wonder the same.
A little extra vibration is ok for me, but wearing out an expensive joint is not so OK...

So does anybody have any idea how far the stock tapered ones can flex?

PS, what is the double sheer format? ;)

[scotty]

i run heim joints on my steering. the biggest advantage is that they are super easy to work with.all i did was weld nuts into the ends of a piece of appropriate size piece of tubing,and ream out my knuckle for a 3/4" bolt to fit thru.

i have read alot of stuff that say a regular TRE(tie rod end) is better,and id prolly tend to agree with all ive read. automotive ball joints are designed for abuse and neglect,amd tend to have a much longer life than a spherical rod end,or heim joint.

i think you could use heims on the street as long as they are checked regularly for wear and mounted in a double sheer setup.

i like my setup,cause its real easy fab new linkages and spares by buying cheap scrap tubing at the local recycle yard,and i used all right hand rod ends so that a couple of spares will fit anywhere in the setup. of course,i hafta unbolt one end from the knuckle to adjust,but thats not too big a deal to me.

my original notion of wanting to do it was to save $$,cause the long side of my factory linkage was bad,and that bad dog is lotsa $$

however,ive discovered that good quality rod ends are round $40 apiece,so youre definately not going to save any $$ by using heims. my $20 heims are allready startig to show some wear :( not to mention that i spent close to $30 on grade 8 3/4" nuts bolts and washers,and jam nuts

TRE linkage is definately going to be alittle harder to fab if youre making a custom setup,but i think the added safety is prolly worth using them in a largely street driven rig.

mine is only on the road attached to a towbar,and soon it will not be on the road at all,when my trailer is done.

[dnixon]

what is the double sheer?

[scotty]

hmmm,how to describe double sheer without a pic?

when the mounting bolt passes thru 1 piece of metal underneath the joint,it is in single shear. if the ball popped out of the joint,it could fall off.there is 1 "shear point" with the bolt passing thru 1 piece of metal since it is not being supported on the opposite end.

if the mounting bolt passes thru a piece of metal,the joint,then another piece of metal it is in double shear. there are 2 shear points since the bolt has mounting supports on either side of the joint. this method is stronger and less likely to bend/break the mounting bolts,and has the added benefit of holding the jiont captive between the mounting points if the joint were to stretch enuff that the ball could pop out.

suspension links like control arms and traction bars are typically mounted in a double shear fasion.

it is much harder to fab a double shear setup mounts for steering linkages due to the limited spaceo nt he knuckle,steering arm,or pitman arm.this is pretty much why my links are all single shear,it was prety much impossible to make them double shear.

what alot of people will do is run a big "last chance" safety washer on the non-supported end of the mouting bolt. this obviously doesnt add any strength,but it does work to hold the joint captive if it stretches enuff for the ball to pop out. i did not even have enuff for this,as the washers would rub the tires-i have a pretty minimal amt of clearance with the steering links in the stock locations on the knuckles.

one thing id like to do is replace my bolts with some kind of grade 9 or better aircraft quality titanium bolts(soon as i figure out where to get em) as well as upgrade my rod ends to som chromemoly,teflon lined,etc. ones. when i make new arms when i install my front 70 ill try and make double shear mounts,or at least give myself enuff room to run a big safety washer.

to answer another ques,i do not believe a heim joint will allow for movement than a stock ball joint type TRE. id go to far as to say that a TRE prolly does give alittle more movement. in order to maximize heim joint movment,youll need to add little spacers so that the outer part of the joint can move around the ball.otherwise the heims movement will be very limited.

again,the big advantage of heims is simply that they are super easy to work with and fab stuff with common parts available from your local hardware store and the scrap metal yard smile.gif when i install my front 10 bolt,all ill hafta do to make my steerig work is buy 4 more nuts and some tubing,and make a longer linkage. easy a pie smile.gif

[dnixon]

i just found a deal i thought the other day with a crossover steering set up but it used heim joints.. so I was just wondering... I don't know what I am going to do..

here's the link tell me what you all think:
http://www.tellico4x4.com/steer/soa.htm

oh and thanks for the explanation.. I understood what you were saying perfectly...

[ February 05, 2003, 07:56 AM: Message edited by: SLOwag aka-dnixon ]

[Serious Johnson]

Bottom line: Heim joints don't handle dirt well. They're fine on a race car or trailer queen.

:-

[nxcj]

Originally posted by Serious Johnson:
Bottom line: Heim joints don't handle dirt well. They're fine on a race car or trailer queen.

:-They're fine on a trail rig too. It is as simple as saying they work well when maintained! For that reason, I would not run them on my daily driver because I don't want to inspect my steering evry time I jump in it. I run them on my wheeling rig because I DO inspect my steering everytime I get in it!
tongue.gif

[ February 05, 2003, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: nxcj ]

[scotty]

excellently said,nxcj! :D

i also do a thurough inspection on my trail rig prior to every run

[dnixon]

that site also list the ability to put "Big Chevy" TRE.. so maybe I'll see how much that ups the cost...