Chevy 6.2 vs 6.5L, Which one?

[rocklaurence]

I've been searching and studying the install of a Chevy diesel in a Jtruck. The 6.5's are easier to find (except HMVEES) and I'm wondering how much extra work is it with the electronis injection vs mechanical. IK that the '94 and earlier 6.5s were still mechanical but what else is there to consider wiring wize when installing a 6.5 with a non-electronic transmission (manual/727/T400)?

[lobie]

I don't know much about the 6.2/6.5 engines but there is a lot of info at Diesel Place Forum. You may want to search around there and ask questions on that board.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=21

[joe]

Good lead there. I've got a 6.2 in a C20 and would't flinch at buying another if in good condition but all I think I know about 6.5's is just rumor. Any used motor gas/dsl is a crap shoot. I lean toward non computer controlled dsl's cause computer motors are the devils/geek work that I doan unnnerstand. I like levers, nuts, bolts. Silly milly micro nano volts/sensors that I can't see scare me. I like a tool box with rocks and pointy sticks unless installing distributors of course. ;)

[AMC-J/20]

I would avoid them both, they are painfully slow and are pretty much the laughing stock of the diesel world . . . Afully built 6.5 turbo will mkae about 335hp and at that they tend to have over heating issues andare known for cracking blocks and heads . . .

:D The 6.2 turns 136hp n 250 stock & the 6.5 is 190hp n 380tq stock :thumbsup:

I've been there and sadly owned such a rig:rolleyes: Keep that triple A card handy, I ended up with an AMC/GMC hybrid TH400 and an AMC-360 in my 95' K2500 . . . then sold it off ;)

But its your $$$
Mike

[budojeepr]

Sorry, I must respectfully disagree. I put a stock 6.5 in my Wagoneer, but I put on a GM-5 turbo as well as the proper manifolds. It has the mechanical pump (rebuilt) and a 4" exhaust with a diesel-application muffler. I dialed in a manual wastegate control to max the boost out at about 9psi. The worst electrical stuff on it is the glow plug controller, and I just plugged in the stock one from the donor.

With a rebuilt 700R4 trans, NP208 transfer case, and 2.73:1 gears in the AMC 20 rear end, I can burn the tires at will and go faster than the Wagoneer suspension wants me to.

And I get 18mpg in town, 24 on the highway. It hasn't shown any sign of overheating (granted, I just DD it, no towing), using the stock Wagoneer clutch fan and a generic aluminum cross-flow radiator.

I'm just sayin', avoid making generalizations. Take care in your installation and take care of your ride, and you can make out all right.

[jaber]

I read a thread somewhere that a guy took a pair of little Mitsu turbos and added one to each bank and had u-tube video of it spooling. It made quick power and he was roasting tires with it.

Just a thought...;)

[rocklaurence]

Sorry, I must respectfully disagree. I put a stock 6.5 in my Wagoneer, but I put on a GM-5 turbo as well as the proper manifolds. It has the mechanical pump (rebuilt) and a 4" exhaust with a diesel-application muffler. I dialed in a manual wastegate control to max the boost out at about 9psi. The worst electrical stuff on it is the glow plug controller, and I just plugged in the stock one from the donor.
I'm just sayin', avoid making generalizations. .

Did you add the mechanical pump or was it already there. I'm curious on what would be involved wiring up the electronic pump/injectors. Ive almost baught a '93 with the mech' pump but there are more of the Elect' ones. Also, Im aware that the Chevy's aren't a Power Monster but for the Ease of Installation and economy, they can't be beat.
Keep the info coming.

[The PIG Smith]

I've been searching and studying the install of a Chevy diesel in a Jtruck. The 6.5's are easier to find (except HMVEES) and I'm wondering how much extra work is it with the electronics injection vs mechanical. IK that the '94 and earlier 6.5s were still mechanical but what else is there to consider wiring wise when installing a 6.5 with a non-electronic transmission (manual/727/T400)? Rocklaurence,

You can swap out the the DS4 electronic IP for a marine DB2 mechanical IP.
Lots of information about it on http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/index.php
There are some that claim to stick with the DS4 electronic IP as it had four plungers verses the DB2's two plungers.
The marine DB2 mechanical IP flows as much fuel as the DS4 electronic IP.

I've gathered the wiring is not that bad, if you stick with the DS4 electronic IP.

[rocklaurence]

Thanks Bryan, I'm going to become a member of the Diesel Page and have read all the free stuff in regard to the motors. I'd like to install a diesel in my sons J10 to make long drives more affordable but I maybe purchasing a '78 J20 that would benefit from a 6.5L. I'm just itch-n to put one into something.:thumbsup:

[billyrb]

for about the same amount of work and costs, why not consider a cummins? they are well known to be very long lasting, parts are cheap, they are VERY easy to work on and leave a lot of room on each side to access if repairs are needed. You can find 4bt's and 6bt's all day long for decent prices, and they will last with great power for a long time.

[uglyjeep]

I do not believe that the Cummins will be close to the cost of the GM. For my engine swap I've spent less than $1000 total - and that includes buying adapters, engine mounts (not building them), and a low mileage goodwrench 6.2 (with all the associated parts). Over time, I've sunk significantly more into the rest of the truck, but, for the most part, that is due to my own stupidity (swapping the Cherokee body) and could easily have been avoided.
Around here a running used Cummins brings 1500+. You may be able to find the occasional dealo n a 6bt for less than that, but good luck finding a 4bt for that much. Heck if you could find even a 4b (the one in tractors) similarly priced to a 6.2/6.5, I'd be jealous.

Now there is a reason that Cummins = more $$$. It is a “better” engine. I would LOVE to have a 4bt, 6at, or 6bt, but I can't afford the extra money. To tell the truth, I will never require the extra durability or power that the Cummins would provide. If I were regularly hauling large loads - yes, I would definitely need the tractor engine. I'm not going to, though, and I doubt many others here are either, so the light truck engine will be fine. The NA j-code 6.2 is going to provide more than enough power for what I need.

Cummins has GM beat hands down as far as strength and power, but in the majority of cases, won't come close in cost.

OK i guess I'll get off the soapbox...

To the OP: The majority of the swaps that I've seen using the later 6.5 have had the electronic components swapped out for the mechanical versions. I think that is one of the positives of using a 6.2/6.5, the simplicity of the mechanical injection. BUT, I’ve seen a few done with the electronic pump, and it is a good option if you can figure out the GM factory wiring diagram (which would be a good place to look and see exactly what is required for the swap).

[billyrb]

for cost, absolutely the 6.2 and 6.5 will be cheaper, but that is for a reason, as not as many people consider them desirable. I've driven them and wasn't impressed, but if you don't need a lot of power or torque (comparing to a stock or turned-up cummins), they will suffice. But I tend to look at the long-term of a build. If I'm spending x amount of money, I don't want to be just ok with the results when they're done; I'd rather be happy and not want to do anything for a long time. I learned this after quite a few projects where I did just that: either had more than I could realistically handle / use, or not nearly enough of what I wanted.

Having said that, if it comes down strictly to how much is available to spend, I get it. Otherwise, for a bit more (a good swap can be done with a cummins for around 2k-3k total) it would be a better choice based on power, reliability, cost of replacement parts, longevity of the motor, etc.

[rocklaurence]

From what I've learned and common sense (I know, Ill never recoop the money spent) the Chevy weighs less, shakes less and revs higher than the 4BT. In regard to power, the Jeep 6 only pushes 230 lbt and the 360 has 280 lbt. So, as long as I'm patient the Chevy (6.2/260, 6.5/380) will pull anything that the V8 gaser will and get great mpg.

[The PIG Smith]

for about the same amount of work and costs, why not consider a cummins? for cost, absolutely the 6.2 and 6.5 will be cheaper... Thank you for clarifying your first statement with your followup.

[Ristow]

I ended up with an AMC/GMC hybrid TH400 and an AMC-360 in my 95' K2500 . . . then sold it off ;)


really? i don't recall that....

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=128156

[dusty]

From what I've learned and common sense (I know, Ill never recoop the money spent) the Chevy weighs less, shakes less and revs higher than the 4BT. In regard to power, the Jeep 6 only pushes 230 lbt and the 360 has 280 lbt. So, as long as I'm patient the Chevy (6.2/260, 6.5/380) will pull anything that the V8 gaser will and get great mpg.

6.2L weighs 700 lbs (http://www.forgottendiesels.com/6.2_gm.html)
shakes less until the crank breaks. i've had 4 6.2's and loved em all for what they were. i've also installed a replacement crank in 3 of those trucks at least once.
hates cold starts even when glow plugs work.
price $200 to $1000+ for a clean good runner so fo arguments sake $600. 700R4 can be had for 200-300. NV4500's are $600-800. NP208 or NP241 t-case $100-300
Dont for get to change the radiator. $200+/-. Buy motor mounts or fab something
good motor for what it is, worth looking at just keep in mind they werent made to run like a turbo charged motor

All said and done just addressing motor and cooling system since brakes etc are another can of worms for a 5 speed OD rig $1500+/- for automatic maybe $300-500 less. ;) plenty left over for the tow bill and
spare motor. big plu that it comes with AC bracketry. love to eat glow plugs


4bt weighs in at 745 lbs (http://www.cumminsdieselspecs.com/4bt.html)
shakes, but not enough to complain about, is louder
buy it with a T18, T19 or np435 behind it for $1800-2100+/- buy a ZF 5 speed from a for for $200-300 and you have a manual 5 speed OD that bolts up. NP208 t-case $100-300 Re-use your radiator, run a under motor lower cross over tube. Build motor mounts

For a 4bt $2200-2500 all the hard parts. but you have a more reliable motor and a solid 5 speed then you get to dive into the details, brakes, hydraulic clutch, adding hp adding AC, patience while you search, direct injected doesnt use glow plugs



there are pluses and minuses to each but becareful not to exagerate the numbers they arent as far apart as some think and whe you add the pita factor over time i tend to think they both pencil out about the same over time and during the total conversion process

[hummer010]

6.2L weighs 700 lbs (http://www.forgottendiesels.com/6.2_gm.html)
shakes less until the crank breaks. i've had 4 6.2's and loved em all for what they were. i've also installed a replacement crank in 3 of those trucks at least once.
hates cold starts even when glow plugs work.
price $200 to $1000+ for a clean good runner so fo arguments sake $600. 700R4 can be had for 200-300. NV4500's are $600-800. NP208 or NP241 t-case $100-300
Dont for get to change the radiator. $200+/-. Buy motor mounts or fab something
good motor for what it is, worth looking at just keep in mind they werent made to run like a turbo charged motor

All said and done just addressing motor and cooling system since brakes etc are another can of worms for a 5 speed OD rig $1500+/- for automatic maybe $300-500 less. ;) plenty left over for the tow bill and
spare motor. big plu that it comes with AC bracketry. love to eat glow plugs


4bt weighs in at 745 lbs (http://www.cumminsdieselspecs.com/4bt.html)
shakes, but not enough to complain about, is louder
buy it with a T18, T19 or np435 behind it for $1800-2100+/- buy a ZF 5 speed from a for for $200-300 and you have a manual 5 speed OD that bolts up. NP208 t-case $100-300 Re-use your radiator, run a under motor lower cross over tube. Build motor mounts

For a 4bt $2200-2500 all the hard parts. but you have a more reliable motor and a solid 5 speed then you get to dive into the details, brakes, hydraulic clutch, adding hp adding AC, patience while you search, direct injected doesnt use glow plugs



there are pluses and minuses to each but becareful not to exagerate the numbers they arent as far apart as some think and whe you add the pita factor over time i tend to think they both pencil out about the same over time and during the total conversion process

You've also got to factor in the "find a 4bt" aspect. I've seen one for sale locally in the last three years. 6.2s and 6.5s are all over the place. So, for a 4bt, you may have to wait until you find one locally, or add a couple hundred for shipping from somewhere else - and then you'd probably be buying unseen.

Certainly not a deal breaker though.

I'd rather have a 4bt.

[rocklaurence]

Consider this, a 6.2 adapted to an AX15/NV3550 ($800 reman) with Tcase. Maybe not 1ton in size but very afordable and easy to get. I'm most concerned with gas milage and price for a daily driver. Performace isn't expect to be great but enough to get me and the load down the road (Ive been driving a 2.2L Ranger for 5 years).:thumbsup:

[uglyjeep]

Why not use a chevy nv3500? No adapters then.

[rocklaurence]

Why not use a chevy nv3500? No adapters then.
Your right! Plus, any NV Tcase or D300 should fit. The 6.2 is under the 300lbt rating of the trans.;)

[Hansh]

The 6.2/6.5 are a good economical choice for your application. It will be an improvement over the AMC/TF set up. Many parts will interchange with what is already used in the Jeep, for example, PS box/pump and alternator. I used a 6.2/700r/241 in my Grand Cherokee with a mechanical IP. Go for it.

[86gwrhino]

The 6.2/6.5 are a good economical choice for your application. It will be an improvement over the AMC/TF set up. Many parts will interchange with what is already used in the Jeep, for example, PS box/pump and alternator. I used a 6.2/700r/241 in my Grand Cherokee with a mechanical IP. Go for it.

short term the 6.2 WILL be cheaper but if you plan on keeping this truck for awhile then save and get a cummins. the cumminl be cheaper in the long run because you wont have to keep putting money into it to fix it when it breaks. and trust me, it will break.

[rocklaurence]

The 6.2/6.5 are a good economical choice for your application. It will be an improvement over the AMC/TF set up. Many parts will interchange with what is already used in the Jeep, for example, PS box/pump and alternator. I used a 6.2/700r/241 in my Grand Cherokee with a mechanical IP. Go for it.
How much is the mech' IP? Ive just got the spare$$ for a trailer and should be starting a Diesel project soon.

[Hansh]

You should be able to get a rebuilt one for around $600, and a new one for about $1000. If you search around you may be able to find one cheaper, but I would recommend going with a reputable seller.

The only major repair in 100,000 miles I have done to my 6.5 engine is replace the IP, which had over 120,000 miles on the rebuild, and over 340,000 miles on the unit itself.

[uglyjeep]

If you buy a remanufactured unit from an auto parts store,you can figure about $700. But you can find good used units for MUCH less. You’regoing to be looking for an IP from a j-code 6.2, an early 6.5, or a marine pump. A standard 6.2 pump will work, but may not deliver enough fuel.

Edit- Opps didn't see Hansh's post.

[rocklaurence]

I have seen them on Ebay. I suppose that the marine units are the prefered performance ones? Also, is there any Hot Roding that can be done to a normally asperated 6.2 to get the toque closer to 300lbt?

[hookedup50]

Check Heath diesel performance, Kennedy Diesel, and SS diesel for hot rodding. Not sure what can be done to 6.2 as far as performance as I have only 6.5's so far. I am in middle 6.5 swap in my chevy at moment(oil cooler line let go). Got low mile unit from military repower program before Hummers go overseas. They had 6.2's also. If I had to do this again I would have bought truck with mech inj. as pmd's are failure prone until moved out of engine bay. Good luck with your project.

[dusty]

To get more power You'll need to turn up the pump and you need to be careful doing that there is such a thing as too much without more air flow being added. That means a turbo is in the future. the easiest way is the old banks kit. If you install the Banks turbo kit turning up the pump is a must. After that, nothings free. The Banks exhaust is about as good as your going to get and your not going to get more than 10 psi through the banks turbo. that usually nets around 330-350 ft/lbs of tq and 180-190 hp to the rear wheels depending on pump adjustments. add injectors and ...... you MIGHT close in on the 375-400 ft/lbs number .....but there are alot of variables in there


Now, if you want to spend some cash you could mount a Holset turbo on the Banks manifold. Its a custom job and not easy but you can get 25-30+ psi. Of course, if you do that you need head studs and crank girdles. Fact of the matter is your never going to get more than about 300HP-330hp out these 80's technology engines (and that is with a fair bit of work!) if you go to the holset be prepared to add a stud girdle and stud the heads these motors werent designed with that much pressure being thrown at them.

Most folks are happy with the Banks Turbo kit and turned up pump. Decent power, reliable, easy to install. If you want too much more than you have, your going to have to move up the technological ladder to a Cummins, Dmax, etc.


Some mods to consider

DSG makes a stud girlde kit for the lower end.
Convert the timing chain to a gear drive.
ARP bolts for the rods
try to use head studs if you plan to pressurize a 6.2 or at least use arp head bolts. if you bump the timing too much it can increase cylinder pressure to a point where stock head bolts etc will stretch


small power adder and drivability
Consider having the cam reground, or get a new cam with a little more lift

IIRC
marine pistons yeild a lower compression ratio which will allow you to tighten the WG on the turbo and increase the amount of pressurize air you can squeeze in there. the holset turbo is a more efficient newer design turbo it spools up faster and produces more power on a 6.2 or 6.5 but isnt an easy install

marine injection pumps have a bigger head and move a little more fuel
there are some marine injectors that are rated to give you +40hp

Find a j code 6.2, they have better heads & injectors/pump and/or if you cant find a j code motor cap off or eliminate the egr


you might check these guys out regarding 6.2's and 6.5's
www.heathdiesel.com (http://www.heathdiesel.com)

[Daddio]

J code 6.2's had quite a few differences from the C code engines and they produced 143hp stock.

The injection pump is different
The intake is different (single plane no egr)
The injectors are different and I've heard the heads are different.

If you have an old 6.2 and you take it in for a rebuild, brace yourself to hear the main bearing webs are all cracked and it can't be rebuilt.

In the span of less than 12 months I had a piston get a hole burned in the top and then found out the engine wasn't worth rebuilding. Bought a much newer 6.2 (to which I added a pricey timing gear drive, and high flow water pump) and it later dropped a valve on the way to work one morning. It ran like a champ until it died. I wish I had spent the money on a cummins engine. I still like the idea of a diesel, but I've spent enough money on 6.2's.

It's like you've seen the bad side of one of the hottest girls in school and people think your nuts.

[rocklaurence]

Yeh, I hear ya. In regard to performance. Im only looking at the non-turbo 6.2. I just was looking at a way to match the torque of the 360 V8 gaser. With the turbo (380 flb), its not an issue. So, a hotter cam, gasket matching and boost the pump may work. Yes?

[dusty]

Yeh, I hear ya. In regard to performance. Im only looking at the non-turbo 6.2. I just was looking at a way to match the torque of the 360 V8 gaser. With the turbo (380 flb), its not an issue. So, a hotter cam, gasket matching and boost the pump may work. Yes?


turbo is the only way to get into that kind of torque with that NA diesel

[AMC-J/20]

A stock 6.5-Turbo makes 190hp n 380tq can be tweaked up to 335hp n 550-580tq . . .

But the 6.5's do have over heating issue once ya surpass the 250hp mark.

A stock 6.2-NA makes 136hp n 250tq, Not really sure what can be gotten from them . . .

Note the 6.2's are know for cracking blocks n heads so i'm NOT sure as to how far i would push it.

:D Banks dose make a side whinder turbo for it with 9-11psi boost tho ;)
a friend if mine put the banks 6.2 turbo on a 6.5-NA and really got some good power out of it :thumbsup:

Not sure what you want to spend, but diesel can get pricy and quick too, boosting a 6.2 and so on ya might wanna think about the I4 or I6 cummins instead better power better durabiltiy/longevity :drivin:

Good luck
Mike

[rocklaurence]

Im only looking at boosting the 6.2L from 240ish lbt to 300 lbt. The turbo'd 6.5L is strong enough. So, my question was, if I go with the 6.2 how can I add a little (non-turbo) performance?

[dusty]

i've heard that around 50 ft/lbs +/- can be had from just turning up the pump and bumping the pump timing but youll need a pyrometer when you do it. These things can melt pistons if you arent careful. as to the turning things up 40-50 ft/lbs is what ive heard and i have no documented proof of this.

if i look for more power out of a NA motor either a 6.9, 7.3, perkins, duetz, nissan, toyota or a 6.2 i've always started with a turbo along side any pump tweeks even if mild the forced induction is always my first step, cleaner running and more efficient

[AMC-J/20]

Here is where ya need to be asking:
http://www.thedieselgarage.com/forums/index.php?

There are a few Good guys with lots of 6.2 & 6.5 Knowledge, Helped me through all of my GM-Diesel issues and kept my other diesels in tune running strong ;)

I'm currently without a diesel at this time so I don't sign in much these days, Once I get my frame delivered for the Medium duty "J5500" project I'm going most likely with a P-pumped 24V-5.9L :drivin:

Anywho, That is the site where you should be asking about diesel performance you'll get treated well and given good and correct information ;)

Mike

[tagjeep]

Look at the cucv section of steelsoldiers.com.
Lots of info there about the j code 6.2
I've bought 2 cucv's with the 6.2.
No,they are not fast,but do what I want to around my place.
I was going to use the first for the 60 front,but it was "replaced" by a hollow 44 when I got it,put in an 8 lug 44 I had laying around,and beat on it.Not 1 single straight body panel now.
Second one is in too nice shape to cut up.

[rocklaurence]

I hate to keep beating the Horse but what kind of power does the 6.5 make without the turbo? Ive got 3 J's in the area for parts trucks that Im going to pick up for my Diesel project--No really, Im going to do it.

[mdill]

Is there a good reference of the various 6.2 6.5 engines?
Good/Bad, mechanical/electronic, turbo/NA , EGR/Non-egr ... applications ?
Sounds like there was quite a few variants, but I have no clue as to what the trade offs are in picking from the crowd,

My usual decision making process of "go for the one with the larger mammary glands, all else being equal" , does not seem to help me much in this case.

[rocklaurence]

SteelSoldiers stated that the military doesnt have 6.2's and doesnt rebuild them any more. So, its the 6.5L non turbos that are being used de-tuned to approx 160 hp.

[joe]

How much is the mech' IP? Ive just got the spare$$ for a trailer and should be starting a Diesel project soon.
If you're sourcing IP's check with Midwest Fuel Injection. Never bought an IP from them but their prices are good and the parts I have bought(injectors)were quality.

[billyj7175]

really? i don't recall that....

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=128156

Good stuff right there...

Deputy Ristow keepin' the peace...


Tossing my .02 here...

I can't really add or subtract to the longevity of the 6.2/6.5, but I will say that every one I've ever driven (numerous 6.2's in the military and my BIL had a 1 ton 6.5) would run circles around every smogged, 2bbl 360 I've ever driven/rode in.