I hate to do it but I can't justify spending money with a vendor...

[derf]

This is really just a rant. I don't want to start a flame war. I just want to get this off my chest.

So I know that there are times when there is slow response from a particular vendor. I've had good luck with them and I've had some pretty crappy luck with getting any information from them.

Here I am, ready to drop about $1,000 on some parts for my truck and they can't even be bothered to get back to me about parts availability. It's been a week and no response. None. Repeated requests go unanswered. How hard is it to look up the information and get back to me?

I really want to support vendors who are there for the full size Jeep community but these guys just have rotten customer service. I just can't justify spending money with these guys if they can't be bothered to give me just a little information.

So, even though they may have parts I can't find anywhere else, I'm going to have to take my business elsewhere and make do with what I can find. The exhaust parts I want will come from someone else, probably a local shop to custom build what I want. Even though it will probably cost more, at least I know the work will get done. The brake upgrades I had planned for this fall will use parts from somewhere else. The lift kit and wheels I was going to buy can be bought through other vendors. As I come up with a need or a want for more upgrades in the future, my business will go elsewhere. As a single engineer with a recently increased money flow, the amount I was prepared to spend with them is not trivial. All of it will now go to other vendors or, if I can't get it somewhere else, I'll do without.

It's really sad that a business can fail so miserably at serving the customers who pay their bills.

That's all.

[billyrb]

I saw this after posting on our forums. We weren't ignoring your question. brent asked our vendor twice for an eta, and no response yet. He said he was going to call again on monday to see if they have any update.

[derf]

I saw this after posting on our forums. We weren't ignoring your question. brent asked our vendor twice for an eta, and no response yet. He said he was going to call again on monday to see if they have any update.

That's just it. How am I supposed to know you're waiting for a response?

How hard is it to just post up an update that you're waiting and will get back to me later? I don't mind waiting as long as I get feedback about what the delay is. I asked more than once for an update but got no response at all. I see responses to other threads but not to mine. That tells me you're ignoring me, even if that wasn't your intention.

Every other company I deal with gives me feedback about what any delay is. It's called customer service. Perhaps you've heard of the concept?

This is not the first time I've had this issue. But I guarantee it will be the last.

I wish you all the best in your future endeavors.

[billyrb]

I scan the forums to see if there are any new questions that need answered, and was waiting for an update, didn't realize you would be so offended by me not posting (again wasn't intentional).

I wish you the best as well.

[TPICherokee]

Every other company I deal with gives me feedback about what any delay is. It's called customer service. Perhaps you've heard of the concept?


.

[billyrb]

and by the way, on the evening of the 12th at 6.50pm I told you that Brent was going to get an ETA, so you had been informed that we were trying to get a date on them.

[derf]

I scan the forums to see if there are any new questions that need answered, and was waiting for an update, didn't realize you would be so offended by me not posting (again wasn't intentional).

I wish you the best as well.

That right there is a very telling response. I asked "Is there an ETA on getting an ETA?" and waited for a couple of days for a response. Obviously that wasn't a question that "need answered".

If you don't feel like you "need answer" questions from your customers, your customers may not feel like giving you their business.

and by the way, on the evening of the 12th at 6.50pm I told you that Brent was going to get an ETA, so you had been informed that we were trying to get a date on them.

It's the 18th. I asked several times last week for an update and got no response whatsoever. How hard is it to just throw a post up? "Waiting to hear back from the supplier, we'll let you know as soon as we do." That took me all of 15 seconds to type. How much longer for you guys to do that when you're already posting in the forum? A whole minute? Maybe two at the most?

Again, this is not the first time I've had this trouble. This is not the first time I've asked for better communication from you guys.

I'm a very patient guy. At least I'm patient when I know why I'm waiting. I've had an order in with another company on parts for my CJ project. They told me up front that parts were back ordered. They sent out an update when the date got pushed back. They've sent out periodic updates over the last couple of months just to keep their customers informed. I'm patiently waiting for the parts because they COMMUNICATE with me.

I'll give you a nickle's worth of free advice. This kind of response to me is going to drive away more customers. Rather than saying "sorry about that, we'll do better in the future", you're chastising what was a potential customer. When you do this in a public forum, others can see what it's like to do business with you. That's not a great way to drum up new business.

I don't bear any ill will to you guys. I just don't feel like the discounts or unique parts are worth the hassle. I'm betting I'm not the only one.


p.s. this thread is an OPPORTUNITY for you guys to figure something out about customer relations. Pissing off customers and blaming them is NOT the lesson you should be learning here. I want to see you guys do better. But I can't help someone who is bound and determined to shoot themselves in the foot.

[billyrb]

13th pm, regular day on the 14th, and half-days on Fridays, officially closed over the weekend. So, 1.5 business days was the wait-time between when I posted about getting an eta from Brent, and you posting. I understand that may be a long time to wait.

I answer questions as quickly as I can, and answer new posts as quickly as possible. I didn't have an answer for your question yet, and after 1.5 business days, knew that Brent was still working on it, and didn't realize you were getting ticked off (again, you can always PM / email or call me if you are in a hurry for parts, information, etc. and I can respond sooner).

As for the nickel's advice, thanks. I'm not chastising you, nor am I blaming you as the customer. And, as you stated, you are also not a potential customer, but rather a former customer that has stated he will not do business with us again and knock us on a public forum. I treat all customers the same, regardless of whether they are spending $1.50, or $10,000+. I know the value of each customer, you included, and do my best to retain customers. When there is a problem with an order or a customer is dissatisfied, I do whatever I can to help out. I also realize that there are some situations when no matter what I do, the customer will still be upset or choose to take their business elsewhere. If that be the case, I wish them the best and hope that one day they change their mind and give us another opportunity.

Again, not blaming you as you stated, but rather trying to let you know that I thought I had answered your question with a "we're trying to get an eta" and didn't realize you needed / wanted more updates. Next time, I know.

[derf]

13th pm, regular day on the 14th, and half-days on Fridays, officially closed over the weekend. So, 1.5 business days was the wait-time between when I posted about getting an eta from Brent, and you posting. I understand that may be a long time to wait.

I answer questions as quickly as I can, and answer new posts as quickly as possible. I didn't have an answer for your question yet, and after 1.5 business days, knew that Brent was still working on it, and didn't realize you were getting ticked off (again, you can always PM / email or call me if you are in a hurry for parts, information, etc. and I can respond sooner).

As for the nickel's advice, thanks. I'm not chastising you, nor am I blaming you as the customer. And, as you stated, you are also not a potential customer, but rather a former customer that has stated he will not do business with us again and knock us on a public forum. I treat all customers the same, regardless of whether they are spending $1.50, or $10,000+. I know the value of each customer, you included, and do my best to retain customers. When there is a problem with an order or a customer is dissatisfied, I do whatever I can to help out. I also realize that there are some situations when no matter what I do, the customer will still be upset or choose to take their business elsewhere. If that be the case, I wish them the best and hope that one day they change their mind and give us another opportunity.

Again, not blaming you as you stated, but rather trying to let you know that I thought I had answered your question with a "we're trying to get an eta" and didn't realize you needed / wanted more updates. Next time, I know.

So me asking "is there an ETA on the ETA" wasn't an obvious enough clue that I wanted an update and maybe you should post up a quick response? How much more obvious do I need to be? :confused: So I posted again a couple of days later indicating that I was still waiting for a response but got nothing. What good is a "customer service" forum if you don't bother to answer the questions of people who, up until last night, wanted to spend literally THOUSANDS of dollars with you over the coming months?

I've been getting PMs from other people how they share the same frustrations as me. More than one person has indicated that they also refuse to do business with you for the same reasons I have enumerated.

You say in your first post that you weren't ignoring me. Yet in following posts, you say you look for questions that need an answer but you didn't answer my question. What are you doing by not answering my questions? Ignoring me.

And for the record, I never once said it was you guys in my original post. I never mentioned anyone by name. I never mentioned the company. It was just a rant. It could have been Team Grand Wagoneer. It could have been Bulltear. I wasn't going to say. I was willing to just speak my peace and move on. You could have just looked at this post and let it go but you had to respond. And rather than apologizing, you made excuses. This is a hole that you have dug for yourself.

Again, I'm not doing this to undermine you. I'm doing this because I WANT to support a business that focuses on FSJs. I WANT to patronize the companies who go to the trouble of offering all of the hard to find parts for our unique rigs.

But here's the thing. When I order parts and I don't hear anything for days I get frustrated. When it takes several days to get a response from you guys I get frustrated. When it takes almost 2 weeks to find out that my entire order was held up by one back ordered part, I get frustrated. When I miss wheeling trips because I didn't know I needed to tell you to ship one of the parts now and send the rest later BECAUSE YOU NEVER TOLD ME THE ORDER WAS DELAYED, I get mad. When I have trouble later finding out when a few irrelevant bits will ship, even after asking SEVERAL TIMES, I get frustrated. But like I said, I'm a patient guy. And I'm willing to cut you some slack and try a couple of times. But when I get ignored asking about the availability of parts, I get frustrated again. I've given you guys the benefit of the doubt several times. No more. It's three strikes. You're out.

If someone else comes along and opens a store to compete with you, they're going drive you under in no time. All they have to do is communicate with their customers and you'll lose all your business. You guys must work on your customer service. Being the only game in town in a niche market can only get you so far. If any competition shows up, you'll be out of business in no time. I'm telling you this because I want to see you do better. I want to see you succeed. But if you're determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, I can't help you.

[billyrb]

I know you feel wronged by this somehow, but I wasn't ignoring you. I thought it was covered with me posting that Brent was getting an eta. Obviously you felt it wasn't, and sorry for that. I understand you are upset about this and as mentioned before, wish you well in your search for parts through other suppliers. I wish you felt differently and we had an answer sooner.

You also act like the amount you are wanting to spend means we should treat you better than everyone else. We answer questions as we are able, and if we don't have a specific date, we will email or post that we are getting an eta, and once we have that eta, we will respond accordingly. Again, no ill will held towards you for this thread. That is also why we respond to these threads rather than ignore them or try to get them removed. We aren't afraid to show that we have room to improve, and are constantly trying to better our business.

We also now have a policy that if one part is out of stock or backordered, rather than holding up the order we ask the customer if they want to wait, want to change to something else, or ship what we have now and the rest later. That is us listening to our customers and trying to improve our process. As stated above, if you are in need of a part or answer quicker, and you feel you aren't getting the response as quickly as you'd like, you can always call my extension 103, or email or PM me. Thanks!

[derf]

I know you feel wronged by this somehow, but I wasn't ignoring you. I thought it was covered with me posting that Brent was getting an eta. Obviously you felt it wasn't, and sorry for that. I understand you are upset about this and as mentioned before, wish you well in your search for parts through other suppliers. I wish you felt differently and we had an answer sooner.

Again, you're missing the point. There is an easy solution to this problem. Answer customer questions when they are asked. All of them. No exceptions. When a customer asks a question and you don't answer, they feel like they're being ignored. It doesn't make any difference whether you think you're ignoring them or not. It doesn't make any difference whether you think you've gotten enough information to them or not. If the customer doesn't feel like they have gotten what they need, they will go elsewhere.

It's simple. When customers ask a question, answer it whether you think it's important or not. 90% or more of your customer service problems would vanish if you do that.

You also act like the amount you are wanting to spend means we should treat you better than everyone else. We answer questions as we are able, and if we don't have a specific date, we will email or post that we are getting an eta, and once we have that eta, we will respond accordingly. Again, no ill will held towards you for this thread. That is also why we respond to these threads rather than ignore them or try to get them removed. We aren't afraid to show that we have room to improve, and are constantly trying to better our business.

I'm not suggesting that you should treat me differently than other customers. I'm pointing out that your way of doing business is driving away business. A lot of it. I'm not the only customer you've driven away. I won't be the last. You're losing money as a direct result of the level of customer service (or lack thereof) you choose to provide.

And again, I'm not trying to bash you. I'm trying my best to get a simple point across. Your business would do a lot better if you communicate with the customers better than you do now.

We also now have a policy that if one part is out of stock or backordered, rather than holding up the order we ask the customer if they want to wait, want to change to something else, or ship what we have now and the rest later. That is us listening to our customers and trying to improve our process. As stated above, if you are in need of a part or answer quicker, and you feel you aren't getting the response as quickly as you'd like, you can always call my extension 103, or email or PM me. Thanks!

That's a good change. I'm happy to see that you're making progress. I hope you take full advantage of this opportunity to do even better.

[Blake]

Talk about airing your dirty laundry on some public forums...

I've had good luck dealing with BJ's and think they give just about as good of customer service and anyone out there.

[billyrb]

Again, you're missing the point. There is an easy solution to this problem. Answer customer questions when they are asked. All of them. No exceptions. When a customer asks a question and you don't answer, they feel like they're being ignored. It doesn't make any difference whether you think you're ignoring them or not. It doesn't make any difference whether you think you've gotten enough information to them or not. If the customer doesn't feel like they have gotten what they need, they will go elsewhere.

It's simple. When customers ask a question, answer it whether you think it's important or not.

Derf, I don't pass over questions that I think are unimportant. Every question is important to the person asking, and again, I do my best to answer them as I can. I spend most of my time answering questions that are not related to a sale, because I know that helps people keep their rigs alive and on the road. If a sale happens due to that down the road, that's good. But if not, at least I still helped someone to keep their truck going.

You have to understand this, regardless of whether or not you felt you were being ignored, you were not. I had responded once, and was going to respond again once I had a firm date. I made the mistake of assuming that by me posting I was asking Brent to get an eta, that you understood that I was going to respond once I had that information. I know most folks think that there is a list for all vendors that says what is in stock and what isn't, but unfortunately for some vendors, they don't keep any lists and we have to repeatedly ask them for an eta, and sometimes (more often than not), they don't respond to the first half-dozen requests. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[derf]

Derf, I don't pass over questions that I think are unimportant...

You have to understand this, regardless of whether or not you felt you were being ignored, you were not....

:banghead:

"That, is why you fail."

I don't have to understand diddly squat. I'm the customer. I'm the one who is evaluating whether or not I want to do business with you. If I don't get what I want, I'm not going to give you my money.

It doesn't make one [censored] bit of difference whether you think it's important or not. The person who asks the question wants an answer. If you don't answer their questions, you're going to lose them as customers. When a customer asks a question about when you're going to get back to them, they EXPECT AN ANSWER!

A very wise man on this forum has told you this before and it's worth repeating.

i'll let you in on a little business secret. y'know who's order is most important to a customer? THEIRS! if you guys can't/don't deliver it's your customer service problem,not the customers vendor understanding problem.

Customers who ask questions want answers whether you think you need to answer them or not. Period. I can't say it any more plainly than that.

If you're unwilling or unable to figure this out, you are going to drive yourself out of business and you will have only yourself to blame.


The thing is, all you had to do is just pipe up with "we're waiting to hear back from the vendor" and I would have been satisfied. All it would have taken was just a minute for you to write a one line answer to one question and I would have been happy to wait. But you didn't. The fault here is entirely yours. Man up and take responsibility for your lack of action and stop blaming me for not understanding.

[billyrb]

Thanks for your input, again. You have stated your position quite a few times, I've read it, re-read it and understand what you're trying to say. Being that I apologized for the misunderstanding above, I'm not sure what else you want to accomplish through this posting and repeated responses.

Yep, fault was entirely mine for not repeating what I had above. I got it, I accept that, and stated that. Again, not blaming you for anything, so not sure why you keep stating that.

Just so we're clear, I've apologized about the misunderstanding, accepted that you just wanted a one-line response, and I failed to post that to keep you happy, etc. That should suffice the manning up you are requesting?

[InfiniteWisdumb]

Sometimes I feel that business relationships are a lot like marriages. There needs to be a lot of communication and a lot of understanding and forgiveness. We are all human beings and we all make mistakes. We are all different and behave and act differently in response to stimuli.

To this end, I have found it is not worth getting worked up over the small stuff in life anymore. Usually there are two sides to a story, and both tend to be right in their own way (except Hitler). Arguing over misunderstandings only gets the blood pressure up and takes away from the more meaningful things in life.

Looks to me like this is a misunderstanding and hopefully everyone can understand the other side of the coin. you would want the other person to see your side if the shoe was on the other foot, right?

[Headhoncho]

Talk about airing your dirty laundry on some public forums...

I've had good luck dealing with BJ's and think they give just about as good of customer service and anyone out there.

Bj's airs their advertising on this public forum, their promise to deliver quality parts and service on this public forum, and accepts money from people on this public forum so they should be ready to accept some criticism on this public forum.

Disclaimer: I've bought items from them and was pleased and satisfied with the transaction. I just never got my sticker (that's been on my truck for two years now) that was backordered. A situation remedied by 2tonebluej10.

Biggest problem I see after reading this whole exchange is that it took 15 posts before Bj's said they were wrong and even then it seemed very sarcastic. They, (Ryan, as Brent seemed to wash his hands of this), basically blamed the OP for being impatient. If you want your business to survive in this economy you can't do or say anything that may cost you a customer unless you're independently wealthy and are just doing it for fun.
I started doing sales at my family business about 6 years ago and the ONE thing that made my customers the happiest was the simple act of calling them back. Whether it be good news or bad news, in stock or out of stock, they appreciated an update. I've also never apologized so much in my life even when I knew I was right. I at least give Ryan some credit as he engaged Derf whereas Brent bowed out early. It means alot to see a guy sticking up for his company.


I hope both parties can/will work something out.


JR

[derf]

even then it seemed very sarcastic.

Ya think? ;)

[five16]

I will probably regret getting involved but I need to interject something...

DISCLAIMER: a typed message is without the barriers of context or tone. You will read into it how YOU feel. Not how I felt when writing it. I mean this with constructive love and hope it is recieved openly and without aim or judgement. This is my intent.



Please remember this, we all have important lives and responsibilities and we all share experiences with both succesess and failures.



It is always easier to point out another's faults while excusing our own (NOT POJNTING FINGERS, I AM INCLUDED IN THIS REALITY) and Forgiveness is hard to give which is why we all strive more for the fullfillment of "getting even" than just "getting over it".

When someone has failed to meet our expectations, it is our own choice in how we react. The "Offender" is not responsible for the offended's reaction. I often suffer from the same problem when I feel that I have been wronged or neglected by making it personal as if the neglect had to be personally aimed at me. Sometimes in the midst of our busy lives, things get dropped.

I am sure we have all failed to meet someone else's expectations before.

As a third and unbiased party who got to read all of this; The Vendor failed to meet the customer's expectation. Right or wrong. That is what happened. But after all the venom and sarcasm wears off, the customer is failing to accept the Vendor's "explaination" (which is what you seemed to be upset about not getting originally) and have now labled as their excuses.

I believe you are so mad because the resources for our JEEPS is limited.

Plus, honestly, how many other vendors do you feel personally attached to or linked with like BJ's. If were as simple as you buying these parts anywhere and with ease, you could just take your business elsewhere because the almighty dollar speaks louder than any words.

This was not just a failure by a vendor, because of the relationship through this site, it can feel more like a failure from a friend. In reading over other rants on this site, "Outside" vendors do get ripped but with a fraction of the heat. I'm not sure if that is because we know they will read it or if it is because we have a biased relationship with them. I mean face it, if they were not on here as members, I would have most likely glazed over the thread and not even responded.

But it seems now like "The Last Word-itis" has set in.

I am sure WE all get it.

Your MAD because they did't respect your time or money.

They want you to know that they do respect both but did not verbalize that in a way acceptable to you.

They tried to react in "damage control" mode by explaining their actions in a public forum (which you opened) rather than responding to your expectations and firstly, apologizing for not meeting them.

They are NOT right but you're actions are not right either. You are clearly trying to impact their business which is a voluntary ACTION not a reaction.

It may be sometime down the road, but you will most likely buy from them again and will definitely share comments with the individuals here on this forum again. Be careful not to go too far in making your point.

They did you wrong. It happened. When we put our expectations in men, there is more room for failure than success.

PEACE.

[grimgaunt]

^ This !!

ANY customer - whether its a multi-million dollar client waiting on software delivery or one of us buying a $7.99 fuel tank sock - needs to be communicated with promptly. We are all human, just let us know that you are too....

[derf]

I will probably regret getting involved but I need to interject something...

DISCLAIMER: a typed message is without the barriers of context or tone. You will read into it how YOU feel. Not how I felt when writing it. I mean this with constructive love and hope it is recieved openly and without aim or judgement. This is my intent.



Please remember this, we all have important lives and responsibilities and we all share experiences with both succesess and failures.



It is always easier to point out another's faults while excusing our own (NOT POJNTING FINGERS, I AM INCLUDED IN THIS REALITY) and Forgiveness is hard to give which is why we all strive more for the fullfillment of "getting even" than just "getting over it".

When someone has failed to meet our expectations, it is our own choice in how we react. The "Offender" is not responsible for the offended's reaction. I often suffer from the same problem when I feel that I have been wronged or neglected by making it personal as if the neglect had to be personally aimed at me. Sometimes in the midst of our busy lives, things get dropped.

I am sure we have all failed to meet someone else's expectations before.

As a third and unbiased party who got to read all of this; The Vendor failed to meet the customer's expectation. Right or wrong. That is what happened. But after all the venom and sarcasm wears off, the customer is failing to accept the Vendor's "explaination" (which is what you seemed to be upset about not getting originally) and have now labled as their excuses.

I believe you are so mad because the resources for our JEEPS is limited.

Plus, honestly, how many other vendors do you feel personally attached to or linked with like BJ's. If were as simple as you buying these parts anywhere and with ease, you could just take your business elsewhere because the almighty dollar speaks louder than any words.

This was not just a failure by a vendor, because of the relationship through this site, it can feel more like a failure from a friend. In reading over other rants on this site, "Outside" vendors do get ripped but with a fraction of the heat. I'm not sure if that is because we know they will read it or if it is because we have a biased relationship with them. I mean face it, if they were not on here as members, I would have most likely glazed over the thread and not even responded.

But it seems now like "The Last Word-itis" has set in.

I am sure WE all get it.

Your MAD because they did't respect your time or money.

They want you to know that they do respect both but did not verbalize that in a way acceptable to you.

They tried to react in "damage control" mode by explaining their actions in a public forum (which you opened) rather than responding to your expectations and firstly, apologizing for not meeting them.

They are NOT right but you're actions are not right either. You are clearly trying to impact their business which is a voluntary ACTION not a reaction.

It may be sometime down the road, but you will most likely buy from them again and will definitely share comments with the individuals here on this forum again. Be careful not to go too far in making your point.

They did you wrong. It happened. When we put our expectations in men, there is more room for failure than success.

PEACE.

I have to say you really did miss the mark here. I have dealt with the frustration of trying to communicate with them on many occasions with little success. Only after public call outs do I get any kind of response.

When I asked about parts availability, I got this response:

summit lists them, but we have exclusivity on them and summit never receives any (it's on a pricelist they receive, so they put it on the site). I'll ask Brent about ETA on the parts

No mention about having to talk to a vendor. I had no way of knowing what they had to do to figure out anything about parts availability. Did they have any in stock and just needed to confirm between them? Did they need to send out a custom order? Did they have to talk to the vendor or a wholesaler? I didn't know. All I got was a brief "I'll ask Brent about ETA on the parts" and then nothing.

I asked for an ETA update the next day, figuring they had a chance to talk about it and could update me so I could make plans. Then two days later I asked again. Two days after that, I ask yet again for an update. That's FIVE days after I ask about parts availability and NOTHING. Not a peep. Other threads on their forum got answers but not mine. What am I to think about that?

I am mad, not because parts are scarce. I am mad because as a returning customer, I get lousy service. That's the whole core of the issue. Customer service. This is an ongoing problem at BJs. It has been since they opened their doors. They may have made some changes over the years but they still have a fundamental problem communicating with their customers and they refuse to address it.

I don't feel personally attached to BJs. I couldn't care less about the excuses they make for their lack of communication. I am a paying customer and they can't even meet my relatively low expectations on customer service.

This was ENTIRELY the failure of the vendor. If a customer asks about parts availability and you don't respond even after they ASK FOR AN UPDATE THREE TIMES OVER FIVE DAYS, it is the vendors failure.

They don't respect their customer's time or money. If they did, they would respond to customer questions. And if they missed one and get called on it, they wouldn't go off on how they only answer questions they think are important enough to answer.

Only answer questions if THEY think it's important? Seriously?!? :confused:

When I started this thread, it was just a rant with no company identified. It could have been them or one of the other companies that sells FSJ parts. It wasn't until they started posting that they identified themselves. And starting with their first post, they demonstrated entirely on their own that they don't have the first clue about customer service.

You say I did wrong to complain. I disagree entirely. Even though I didn't bring up the specific company, I would be well within my right to do so if I felt like it. As a customer I have a right to complain about lousy service. Companies have no right to expect that no one will complain about their terrible service. When companies do well they benefit from word of mouth advertising. When they fail, the same word of mouth should reflect on their failures.

You say you think I'll eventually buy from them again. Well, I'm going to have to disagree. They don't sell anything that I can't get elsewhere or otherwise find an alternative for. Sure, it may be more difficult. It may cost more. But I've given these jokers many opportunities to step up and deliver and they've let me down all but once. I've given them too many chances already. No more. I don't care if it costs more. I can afford it. I don't care if I have to find alternatives that aren't as easy as the parts they sell. I can make it work on my own. It's just not worth the hassle of dealing with such lousy sales people. Never again.

[Tornado230]

Back in 1949 my father bought his first Willys Wagon from a local dealer.
Service was lousy, problems with the car, although is was new.
His attitude was--Lose a customer, gain a customer.
He was out of business within 6 months.
The best advertising is a satisfied customer.
A month or so ago I was talking with someone who was having a problem concerning an order. The discussion got heated, the store owner told the guy--"You are raising your voice to me. I don't want to deal with you".

[billyrb]

Derf, you keep missing the point, I don't skip questions whether or not I think they are unimportant to me personally. I answer questions that are asked. I had already answered your question once and was waiting for a response. I've apologized, several times, and see that you are still upset about it. Not sure there is much else I can do. When someone offers an apology to me, I usually choose to accept it and move on.

[derf]

Derf, you keep missing the point, I don't skip questions whether or not I think they are unimportant to me personally. I answer questions that are asked. I had already answered your question once and was waiting for a response. I've apologized, several times, and see that you are still upset about it. Not sure there is much else I can do. When someone offers an apology to me, I usually choose to accept it and move on.
:banghead:

How can you apologize when you obviously don't have the first clue what I'm talking about?

You answered the first question. Sure. BUT YOU DIDN'T ANSWER WHEN I ASKED FOR AN UPDATE! THREE TIMES!!!!!!

You didn't give me enough information. I wanted more. That's why I asked for an update. I didn't post in that thread because I wanted to increase my post count. I didn't post the request for an update because I just wanted to see how my typing skills were holding up. I WANTED THE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION I ASKED FOR!!!!

How can you not understand that? :confused:

It's a simple concept. When a customer asks a question, even though YOU think you have answered it already, ANSWER IT AGAIN!

[oldyellowwagoneer]

I really miss the days when if it was in a catalog or on a website it was actually there to sell,not sitting(hopefully) in the warehouse of the company the vendor is going to buy it from only after someone else pays for it. There was a whole lot less confusion that way.

[TPICherokee]

Derf, we still don't have a solid eta on those headers. We have sold one set of DT AIR injection tube headers in the last 3 years. We would have to send a regular set of headers to Thorley and they would add the bungs and get them ceramic coated. Thorley's "best guess" is 6-8 weeks. We were also told 6-8 weeks on our run of headers that arrived in 14 weeks.

That being said, we are sorry to lose you as a customer but it isn't something we can get upset about and stew over. It sucks for us, but it happens, it is part of doing business.

So, again, we're sorry.

[TPICherokee]

Talk about airing your dirty laundry on some public forums...

I've had good luck dealing with BJ's and think they give just about as good of customer service and anyone out there.

Thank you.

Unfortunately this is a classic example of what happens on forums. We have over 16000 customers in our system and most of these customers are happy customers but typically they don't go onto forums and post about the great experience at BJ's Off-Road.

It seems only people with complaints will post, which is fine, but heck yes we are going to defend ourselves on a public forum. I am not saying we can't do wrong but we are going to try to state our side to protect our livelihood.

I am not the type of person to post my complaint on a forum but some people are, to each their own. I have had a few issues with businesses over the years and I just don't do business with them anymore, I don't email and tell them why, I don't post on a forum, I just walk away.

[TPICherokee]

I at least give Ryan some credit as he engaged Derf whereas Brent bowed out early. It means alot to see a guy sticking up for his company.
I didn't bow out, I didn't want to add more fuel to the fire, Ryan had it handled. I just expressed my surprise by the sarcastic comment in the original post. Plus, I have been know to say (or type) things that don't help the situation and just make it worse.

[78J-10]

I have done business with BJ's offroad over the past few years and I have had both good and bad experiences with them.

I have also done business with a lot of other company's both large and small and had the same thing some good and bad.

My most recent purchase from BJ's was kind of a big run around but it was in part to me modifying my order after I placed it for a set of lift springs. Part it was they were on vac. For a week but after them telling me what happened I was cool.

[derf]

Derf, we still don't have a solid eta on those headers. We have sold one set of DT AIR injection tube headers in the last 3 years. We would have to send a regular set of headers to Thorley and they would add the bungs and get them ceramic coated. Thorley's "best guess" is 6-8 weeks. We were also told 6-8 weeks on our run of headers that arrived in 14 weeks.

That being said, we are sorry to lose you as a customer but it isn't something we can get upset about and stew over. It sucks for us, but it happens, it is part of doing business.

So, again, we're sorry.

All you guys had to do is tell me that you're waiting to hear back. I don't mind waiting if I know why I have to wait. I waited for FIVE days and heard nothing. Even after asking several times, I got no response. That is absolutely and without question unacceptable. Salespeople get fired for doing things like that because it drives away customers. The lack of response tells people that you have no regard for them or their potential purchase. It is insulting to be treated with that kind of disrespect, whether it was intentional or not. I know you didn't set out to deliberately treat me unfairly or disrespect me. But intentions don't mean anything. It's perception that means everything.

If you take nothing else away from this, PLEASE, learn that customers expect communication, even if YOU think it's not important. Like I said before, all you have to do is answer all questions every time whether you think it's important or not and you'll solve 90% of your customer service problems. You do that and you'll retain a much higher number of customers.

[1983 j10]

I no longer will do business with bj's due to the fact that I made an order In November of last year and I understand that there could be a wait on the parts but don't lie to me about when they will be available I would call and be told a couple days ad they would ship I would wait then call back and they would tell me it's a week now so I waited a week and got told a couple days it took till feb of this year for the parts to come in and by then the card I order them on had expired and at that point I was so upset about the situation I canceled the order. I recently made an order with team grand wagoneer for the same parts and had them later that week so I don't understand the three month wait from bj's when the parts drop shipped from the vendor team grand wag was using.

[derf]

Thank you.

Unfortunately this is a classic example of what happens on forums. We have over 16000 customers in our system and most of these customers are happy customers but typically they don't go onto forums and post about the great experience at BJ's Off-Road.

It seems only people with complaints will post, which is fine, but heck yes we are going to defend ourselves on a public forum. I am not saying we can't do wrong but we are going to try to state our side to protect our livelihood.

Here's another point where perception is key. The way you "defend" yourself is important. Telling customers they just don't understand and that they are wrong has 2 problems. First, it drives away that customer for good. Second, others who see that exchange will think twice before coming to you as a new customer. When dealing with angry customers in public, there's only two ways to approach it where you don't come off looking like the bad guy. First is to just apologize for the problem but you can't do anything to solve it. That's for when you have a customer making completely unreasonable demands. You've already lost that customer. There's no sense looking like a [censored] by yelling back at him. The second is to apologize profusely and give the customer what they want. You'll at least stand a chance of keeping that customer and others will see that you are willing to accommodate a customer. This makes them more likely to come buy from you in the future.

I am not the type of person to post my complaint on a forum but some people are, to each their own. I have had a few issues with businesses over the years and I just don't do business with them anymore, I don't email and tell them why, I don't post on a forum, I just walk away.

The whole reason I posted this here is because I really do want you guys to figure out what you're doing wrong. I am not the only one who has had this problem. This is not the only time I've had this problem. You guys don't seem to be willing or able (your choice) to figure out that you should maybe change your approach on some things. Customers who just walk away don't give you the opportunity to understand why they walked away. I'm giving you that opportunity by posting this thread. What you choose to do from here is up to you. I hope that you make the right choice.

[TPICherokee]

I think this post has worn itself out, honestly, it is just a big run-around. We've apologized, nothing more we can do.

I understand both points and it looks like we won't get anywhere with you on this, so again, sorry.

[billyrb]

I completely understand what you're saying Derf, mentioned that above a few times. If you want to keep posting about it, of course you are free to do so.

[BGW]

Ugh, this has to be the most obnoxious redundant thread I've ever read. I FULLY UNDERSTAND your argument, so don't even bother responding to this post.

All I want to say (to explain to unbiased people) is that some people seem to forget that BJ's supplies parts made out of unobtainium and they may take a while to arrive in stock. It's my opinion that you should have assumed the obvious: they don't have an answer yet. Yes, they should have repeated that in their forum maybe 5 or 6 times to drill it in. But really. Just appreciate what they do for us and be patient with them.

[lunchbox1671]

First of all, I have always had excellent service with BJ's and I hope it stays that way. I am, by no means, trying to ruffle feathers. Here's just another outsider's observation of this communication conflict.




Just my worthless advice: ;)


1. The customer is always right.

2. Patience is a virtue.


Number one was directed mostly at BJ's, number two was directed mostly at Derf.

You are both correct in your rights as business/customer, yet both wrong in courtesy/respect for one another.

I hope lessons are learned and you can forgive eachother.

Happy Jeepin'!!!

:fsj:

[Warmachine]

I must admit, I completely understand Derf's frustration. I could not have been more irritated with my (one and since, only) order from BJ's. Post after post on this forum touting how they answer all calls possible, return calls from all voice messages, and respond to every email....so on, so forth. All the while I could hardly get a response from them, let alone with a straight answer as to my questions. I was disgusted to say the least and decided I would not support a company that didn't seem to want my business...niche market or not.

I received more than my fair share of "feedback" from the BJ's offroad fan club out there...the majority of which accused me of more or less trying to kill a small business that solely exists to keep our rigs running...all because I voiced my opinion of a sale handled poorly. It was actually impressive how loyal some customers can be... and more power to ya.

I've tried to make it clear in other posts that I would gladly resume purchasing items from BJ's, given they fix the customer service problems. No ill will towards them in any way. But in the interim, my money goes to others. The parts may appear to be unobtainium, but thankfully, they are not the only game in town. There are some nifty products that are made by/sold by BJ's...and good on them for it....but not every item they show is an exclusive product. BJ's biggest initial appeal to me was one stop shopping, but for me it wasn't worth the hassle in the end. I don't have to put up with poor service just for the sake of saying I support the community.

For the most part it seems to me like complaint posts about BJ's are *arguably* the same (no offense Derf). The same issue keeps resurfacing...lack of communication. The same blame shifting and apologies are given, the promise to do better is made....add a few posts from others members interjecting a positive testimonial, and the thread is pronounced dead. To me it is starting to look like being repeatedly called out for the same problem is acceptable.

Personally, I am disappointed to see BJ's, as a company, still can't seem to sort out this kink...there almost seems to be a passive-aggressive denial business model in place...and unfortunately we, the customers, suffer.

BJ's has not been greatly affected by my choice of other companies over theirs...and Derf, odds are they won't miss your money either....I guarantee a new member joined the forum in the time it took me to type this...that new member too will have the 50/50 chance of being a future recipient of the BJ's Offroad Fan Club hate mail.

[J20 project]

Here's another point where perception is key. The way you "defend" yourself is important. Telling customers they just don't understand and that they are wrong has 2 problems. First, it drives away that customer for good. Second, others who see that exchange will think twice before coming to you as a new customer. When dealing with angry customers in public, there's only two ways to approach it where you don't come off looking like the bad guy. First is to just apologize for the problem but you can't do anything to solve it. That's for when you have a customer making completely unreasonable demands. You've already lost that customer. There's no sense looking like a [censored] by yelling back at him. The second is to apologize profusely and give the customer what they want. You'll at least stand a chance of keeping that customer and others will see that you are willing to accommodate a customer. This makes them more likely to come buy from you in the future.

This is exactly what they seem to have no ability to understand. That and (It's not our fault, we're waiting on the vendor.). Boy, they sure blame the vendor a lot..............;)
J20 project