Best front traction aid for NP229

[jettfuel]

What's the best front traction aid if I decide I want to keep the NP229(I know i'm crazy for even thinking of keeping the NP229)and leave it stock, always locked hubs? I want one that doesn't change the steering characteristics too much, but that gives good traction aid. Oh, by the way the place I am thinking of buying my transfercase from has a $400 difference between the NP208 and the NP229. Any suggestions? I am weighing all my options. Thanks.
Jett

[LRRH]

hmm....

always locked hubs will give you a strange feeling driving. i swear i don't notice it in my 00 XJ, but in a friends Eagle with the NP129(read 229's little brother) we manually locked the front axle and he claims it's a little squirrelly. i can feel no difference.........but no added traction.

as for 229 vs. 208........what do you do with your Jeep? if it's a road machine, then the 229 may be the approbraite case for you. if you're off beating up the trail, i would recomend the 208.

the 229 does NOT have an emergency drive. if you snap a ujoint or something else, the 229 is stuck. it needs both front and rear driveshafts installed. however, the 208 can be driven home on the 2 front wheels.

but with the 208 you have to get out and lock da hubs, or just leave em locked. this case shouldn't be driven on the road eaither.

it all depends on what you need your Jeep for....

[RamJetFSJ]

I think a traction aid in the front of any Full Time 4wd would be a bad idea. Even a limited slip would mess with your handling/turning, and it would wear out really quick!

A automatic locker up front is out of the question, unless you have manual hubs (which you cant really have with Full time, because if you or someone else (read wife) acciently puts it in full time, youll destroy you TC.) You wont be able to turn, and it will destroy the locker in no time at all.

The only real option is a selectable locker, like the ARB air, or an OX. But then when your on the trail and the locker is locked, your turning capabilities will really be comprimised, youll have to unlock to make sharp turns.

[jettfuel]

Sounds like the NP208 is the better choice. I have asked this question before, Can I leave the front hubs the same and just bolt in the NP208? The answers before were yes. I like the idea of not getting out and locking the hubs, besides Jeep engineered the front end to rotate all the time on my NP229. What about a true-trac with the hubs always "locked" in the stock set-up?
Jett

[RamJetFSJ]

Any time you have a "always locked" front end, ie no manual hubs, running a limited slip or locker is for a offroad only vehicle. You must be able to unlock the hubs to keep the axle shafts from spinning, and there for the the limited slip or locker acting like your not even moving.

Changing to the 208 will let you run manual hubs, which in turn will let you run anything in the front axle you want, which will only come into play while offroad (hubs locked).

But thats alot of cash and work if you dont have those parts handy.

If your planning on using this for only offroad, and you are set on keeping the 229, I would go with a ARB air locker or OX locker or similar. But then again, if your doing that heavy of offroading, youll blow that 229 pretty quick, and maybe you should just go with 208 to start with......

[irbob]

Anyone here running a front locker with a stock 229 setup? Would sure like to here from you.

[Rockwagon]

That would be me.. I ran my stock D-44 for about a year welded and now I have a D-60 welded. I never realy had a major steering problem with the 33"s or 36"s but I sure did with the 39.5"s. I would suggest locking hubs and just make all drivers are educated on th procedure. I'm not sure if you know but in 4lo the 229 does lock and the front hubs can be left unlocked for steering. I run mine all the time like this. I also solved my steering problem with a hydrolic ram assist. If you do this you need to carry extra ty-rods because ram is going to turn wether or not both tires want to.

[Michael]

Rockwagon.... So what does leaving the front hubs unlocked but the 229 in low(locking the tcase) have to do with steering...okay how does this help???? For me and anyone else reading this. How does this effect the steering??? :confused: Any info is greatly appreciated!!! :D

[scotty]

rockwagon,im in the same boat smile.gif my front end is welded and with 38" ground hawgs it doesnt turn for crap on hard pack dirt. i can turn the wheel pretty easy in the slicker stuff,but at a dead stop on higher traction surface it takes lots of muscle,or maybe a steering wheel 5 feet in diameter :D i also am planning on a ram assist someday,only thing that worries me is i think a ram will increase the liklehood of steering linkage bending,bead popping,and tire sidewall damage if you try and turn the wheels into something thats not gonna give,like a big rock or in a deep rut.

micheal,the front wheels need to turn at different speeds when making a turn,as they are eac following a differnt arc. with a welded,spooled,auto locker thats reciving power,whatever, front diff,you no longer have any differentiation and the wheels always spin the same speed. obviously,this is hard on parts,and adds significantly to the turning radius since the fronts are trying to contiue to pull the truch forward. unlocking the hubs fress the wheels from the solid,non-differentiating differential so that they can trun at whtever speeds they desire,and you have your ability to turn back.

the reference to being in 4lo with the 229 is simply that in low range(where most slow wheeling is done,since you have more leverage) the 229s drivesahfts are mechanically linked together,much like any other part time xfer,eliminating the center diff from the equation. you would not want to unlock hubs in 4hi,since the power could spin thru the center diff ad destroy the viscuous coupling. in 4lo,however,it is perfectly acceptabe to unlock the hubs without fear of dmaging the xfer case.

jettfuel,i am a bit confused on your reluctace to add manual lockouts :confused: do you just want to jump off the road,put it in 4wd,and wheel without ever getting out of your jeep? part of leavig pavement is getting out to lock the hubs,airig down tires,etc. its not like twisting the little knobs is a complex or time consuming thing. i would give my left you-know-what to be able to add lockouts to my xj cherokee easily. having a full time front end with the driveshaft always spinning is not so bad,but definately not so great.

like everyone said,just depends on the wheelin you do. adding lockers makes night ad day differences in the places you can go. if your rig is mostly street driven,maybe the 229 is fine for you and a front traction device is not so important. an open diff really is the best thing for "inclimate weather" street driving.

you could run a clutch type limited slip with full time drive flanges,at the expense of soe slight steering quirks,and it maybe wot wear out faster than a rear limited slip,but it certainly will wear out faster than it would if it were just sitting there not spinning,with hubs unlocked. and you will not get lots more useable traction. a limitd slip does a good job of keepig both wheels spining in similar traction situations,but get 1 on hard ground,or one inthe air,and power will spin thru ut just like your open diff.

if you want a limited slip with the full time frnt end,go with the true trac,it is gear driven(no cluthces to wear out,no special fluids) and should not give you much trouble with hubs locked,or full time drive flanges in. i have know a few people to install this unit in a fulltime dana 30s in jy,tj,xj and zj vehicles.

it will ot hurt to install a 208 and leave the drive flanges in.it will prolly be fine to install a 208 and a true trac with drive flanges. this is not really ay different than the many newer jeeps that left the factory with sealed wheel bearings and no lockouts.

last and not least,the 229 will ot likely hold up for any period of time with rigerous abuse. they typically crack case halves, the v/c can split open,and you also have the prollematic shift motor,and the inability to drive home on only the front wheels,unless you live close enuff to drive there in 4lo smile.gif for street rigs a well maintained 229 is a good case,full time 4x can be useful in lots of weather conditions. however,if you want to beat on it offroad,plan on swapping in a 208 whenever it blows. my friend went thru 3 of them before swapping in a 208,and ow he runs a 205.

some more food for thot anyway smile.gif

[Millerluck]

OK. I'll add to this.

I have a tracklok in the front with hubs.

I made a label that says "LOCK HUBS FIRST!!!" thats right above the vacuum switch.

Been 2 years know and 33,000 miles. No problems yet.

I have had the left front and right rear off the ground at the same time and still drove out.

And yes on pavement with the hubs locked in 2 wheel drive it does steer a little different then with the hubs unlocked.

Later

Larry Miller

[ June 07, 2002: Message edited by: Millerluck ]</p>

[LRRH]

scotty...the knowledge is great!!!! described it far better than i could have.

there's a different solution for every four wheeler.......

[jettfuel]

Sounds like the NP208 is the best for my situation, and it is cheaper than the NP229. What brand part# manual hubs should I get for my Dana44 front? Thanks to all.
Jett

[Michael]

Thanks Scotty and Thanks Miller. That is great info!!!! :D

[Horny Toad]

Jetfuel,

I made the switch from 229 to a 208 last year. You will also need a rear driveshaft from a early '80s J10 truck because the 208 is about 5 inches shorter than the 229. I put on Warn Premium Hubs from Drivetrain Warehouse, about $75 if I remember right. I am fixing to weld my front instead of going through the expense of a locker.

HT :D

[scotty]

the lockouts you need are internal mount,1/2 ton lockouts.

if your local parts store does not show a listig for 8x wagoneer,have them look it up for a 77 gmc,1/2 ton smile.gif

the part number on the warn premiums im using is #20990

[Oracle]

One other thing, with a locker in the front in 4lo, and hubs you can unlock ONE hub and make offcamber snow or mud trails a LOT safer to negotiate.

[Michael]

Well this will be my plan then....

After all I need more traction...right Oracle !!!I will just replace the tcase when it goes!!!!

Thanks a lot this is great info....

[Oracle]

hehe, Michael, can't tell if you're bustin my chops or agreeing. So let me make it clearer. In 4whl drive, with 229, and hubs, AND front locker, you CAN unlock one front hub, will give you 3 wheel drive, you won't trash the 229, the unlocked hub will give you a 'guide' wheel , make steering a hell of a lot easier, and help to keep you on a snow/mud some other kind of slick off camber trail when fully locked rigs just seem to dive over the side.
You can either take my word for it, or maybe drop an email off to Randy at Randy's Ring & Pinion or some other experienced mountain driver you may know who has run with this type of configuration. Can't be limited slip for a 229, has to be a full locker. If you Weren't bustin my chops, then sorry for the unneeded use of space. smile.gif