SHOW ME THE WAG! (Yes, screaming)

[Snakeyes_Tx]

Who out there has a picture of the original 2-wheel drive IFS Wagoneer? I, along with quite a few others are *really* curious to see it! Post it on here or mail it to me please! http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif

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http://www.virtue.nu/yazahx/rand/sig.jpg

Snakeyes_Tx
86 J-20 "The Rusty Dinosaur"
360/727/208/44HD/60 <- 2nd of all of them.
"If you don't know what the numbers mean, you don't need to be here!"

[scotty]

i had not realized that there was ever a 2wd wag. i have heard about a 4wd ifs wad in late 60s. am also curious to see photos,of either 2wd or 4wd ifs.

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scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/t18/spicer 18 with pto/widetrac offset d44s/rear discs
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

vw turing brake,BIG tow truck PTO winch and full roll cage install very soon
4.0 aquired-4.5L stroker someday...

now we can do some 'wheelin!

[jeepbob]

there were 2x4 Wags and the 4x4 ifs was available in the early 60's but I donot have any pix, the 65 and 66 Chilton's and Motor's manuals do show the suspension and it was an upper "A" arm hooked to a torsion bar that bolted to the top of the spindle and a lower control arm that went rear ward from the axle tube to the frame.

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65 wag. 360/edelbrock rb4/t400/20 t-case/4:10 d27/d44 broken power lok/onboard air/onboard 110v power(no inverter)/1999 Lincoln t.c.leather buckets/Lincoln ctr console/winch/33x12.50/tunes/water proof door pads
soon to have new motor/d44frt/d60r(4:10)welded diff/custom bumpers
see ya in da mud

[BobBarry]

Here is a picture of the 4wd version; the 2wd uses the same geometry, but the lower axle tube does not have any shaft inside:

http://home.off-road.com/~wagoneer/ifs/ifs4wd.jpg

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Bob Barry<UL TYPE=SQUARE>* '78 Cherokee 4-door
* '88 Grand Wagoneer[/list]http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/

[porkchop]

Is that yours Bob?

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'67 Wagoneer
"Red"
Porkchop's Pen (http://members.fortunecity.com/porkchopsredfsj)

Procrastination: hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always pays off now.

[BobBarry]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by porkchop:
Is that yours Bob?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, just a shot I pirated... er, borrowed from another site...

(I'd give credit where credit is due, but to be honest I saved that pic a few years ago and have no idea whose truck it is; IIRC, though, it's from California.)

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Bob Barry<UL TYPE=SQUARE>* '78 Cherokee 4-door
* '88 Grand Wagoneer[/list]http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/

[Slippery]

Right-hand drive, or flipped negative?

------------------
Jason K.
http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/e46e6dee/bc/My+Photos/Festiva.jpg?bcw0GX7Ax3rIxilV
'88 Ford Festiva
40mpg work car
Cost $150, paid for itself already
-----------------------------
'90 Chevy Lumina
Biggest POS in the 115-year history of the automobile
4 cylinders, less than adequate for a car half its size
Crappy rear disc brakes, $19M class-action lawsuit settled
------------------------------
Some other junk not worth mentioning

[porkchop]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slippery:
Right-hand drive, or flipped negative?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The picture is right. Why do you think it is reversed? Look at the gas tank and the steering pump is still on it, and the D20 is a right hand drop.


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'67 Wagoneer
"Red"
Porkchop's Pen (http://members.fortunecity.com/porkchopsredfsj)

Procrastination: hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always pays off now.

[J20 project]

I have the exact same set up sitting out at my Dad's place. It came out from under my first FSJ, a 63 Wag.
J20 project

[scotty]

now THAT is some funky Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley. i thot it used torsion bars. what transmission is that? what engine was in front of it? 6 cyl? sure looks like starter bulges is on the top.its also got some funky crossover xfer case shift linkage.

hmmm. funky. would like to see more pics of that. did it use u joints or cv joints?what kind? ill have to try and find a chiltons to look at

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scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/t18/spicer 18 with pto/widetrac offset d44s/rear discs
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

vw turing brake,BIG tow truck PTO winch and full roll cage install very soon
4.0 aquired-4.5L stroker someday...

now we can do some 'wheelin!

[BobBarry]

Scotty,

You can see the torsion-bars running back along the inside of the frame-rails; they are connected to the upper a-arms.

I believe they used U-joints enclosed in those bellows you see.

If it's an auto tranny, it would be the Borg-Warner AS8F(?) 3-spd auto hooked to a D21 single-speed transfer-case. Either that, or a T-15 3spd connected to a D20. Both would be hooked to the Willys-designed 230ci OHC I-6.

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Bob Barry<UL TYPE=SQUARE>* '78 Cherokee 4-door
* '88 Grand Wagoneer[/list]http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/

[jeepbob]

the tranny is a Borg Warner and the bell housing is setup for either the tornado6 or the Hurricane 6 depending on whether it went in a Wag or a Traveler. You will note the the steering gear box is a Ross unit with power assist and the gearbox is on top of the frame where the firewall would be. Also the d20 t/case shifter is on the drivers side of the tranny making this a 63 to mid 65 chassis. It also was a Tornado powered rig. Also note the angle the tires are at, these rigs had wierd steering geometry and had to be hell on frt tires. Can you imagine trying to lift one? As you can see GM is just catching up with 40 year old Jeep technology with the 2002 Trailblazer.
Jeep had an Auto tranny, ps, IFS, inline 6 rig almost 40 years ago. Funny how the more things change the more they stay the same. Former GM chairman "Boss" Kettering said it the best, "If you want to see what the future hlds, look to the past." To prove his point further in 2005 the V8-6-4 is coming back in Silverado's only this time without the 6 cylinder mode as it causes too much inbalance (vibration) in the motor.

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65 wag. 360/edelbrock rb4/t400/20 t-case/4:10 d27/d44 broken power lok/onboard air/onboard 110v power(no inverter)/1999 Lincoln t.c.leather buckets/Lincoln ctr console/winch/33x12.50/tunes/water proof door pads
soon to have new motor/d44frt/d60r(4:10)welded diff/custom bumpers
see ya in da mud

[Snakeyes_Tx]

More pictures More pictures! C'mon J-20 Project! Show us! More angles too if you can! http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/biggrin.gif



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http://www.virtue.nu/yazahx/rand/sig.jpg

Snakeyes_Tx
86 J-20 "The Rusty Dinosaur"
360/727/208/44HD/60 &lt;- 2nd of all of them.
"If you don't know what the numbers mean, you don't need to be here!"

[BobBarry]

OK, I found a few more shots, and I uploaded them to the following directory:
http://home.off-road.com/~wagoneer/ifs/

That should give you a good idea of the setup.

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Bob Barry<UL TYPE=SQUARE>* '78 Cherokee 4-door
* '88 Grand Wagoneer[/list]http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/

[Snakeyes_Tx]

Dr. Barry... you rule! http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

But how in the heck do the axle tubes flex up and down with the controller arms??

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http://www.virtue.nu/yazahx/rand/sig.jpg

Snakeyes_Tx
86 J-20 "The Rusty Dinosaur"
360/727/208/44HD/60 &lt;- 2nd of all of them.
"If you don't know what the numbers mean, you don't need to be here!"

[This message has been edited by Snakeyes_Tx (edited June 12, 2001).]

[Ralph]

Fellas, I know this sounds almost sacreligious on this sight, but that IFS looks like a swing-arm setup that proved to be the death of the Corvair.

For those of you who don't know what I mean, the earlier Corvairs had swing-arm rear axles that were great on moderately straight roads. But when it came to really hard cornering the outside tire would roll under and tuck in, such that the outside of the rim would catch the pavement and cause the car to flip over (kind of like stubbing your toe and tripping over yourself).

Dr. Bob, any thoughts?

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J ust
E mpty
E very
P ocket

[J20 project]

Sorry guys but as I said it's at my Dad's(300 Miles away), but next time I go down there I will shoot some pics and post them for everyone to compare. Personally I think that set up would make for a pretty neat light duty setup under something like a mongo CJ. J20

[64Trvlr]

JeepBob
I just got off the phone with a retired mech from the Border Patrol. The Traveler never had IFS, just the Dana 27 in the front and the Dana 44 in the rear. The engines varied depending on when they were built, some were 4 cyl and some were 6 cyl.

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http://www.mindspring.com/~tubefish/images/Traveler1sig.jpg


64 Traveler, 350/sm 465/
np 205/ d 44 ft and rear
w/4:88's,33.950's,Line-x interior

60 Willy Wag, Superhuricane6,T90,D18,
D 27 and 44, 4:88's

66 Wag,327,400,20,D27,D44
4:27's

[jeepbob]

I was talking about the tranny not the IFS, that mess was Wag only. The starters were on the opposite sides on some of the motors.

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65 wag. 360/edelbrock rb4/t400/20 t-case/4:10 d27/d44 broken power lok/onboard air/onboard 110v power(no inverter)/1999 Lincoln t.c.leather buckets/Lincoln ctr console/winch/33x12.50/tunes/water proof door pads
soon to have new motor/d44frt/d60r(4:10)welded diff/custom bumpers
see ya in da mud

[Slippery]

Oh, that's a torsion bar, not the steering shaft! Me so silly...

------------------
Jason K.
http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/e46e6dee/bc/My+Photos/Festiva.jpg?bcw0GX7Ax3rIxilV
'88 Ford Festiva
40mpg work car
Cost $150, paid for itself already
-----------------------------
'90 Chevy Lumina
Biggest POS in the 115-year history of the automobile
4 cylinders, less than adequate for a car half its size
Crappy rear disc brakes, $19M class-action lawsuit settled
------------------------------
Some other junk not worth mentioning

[BobBarry]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snakeyes_Tx:
Dr. Barry... you rule! http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

But how in the heck do the axle tubes flex up and down with the controller arms??
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is a leading arm extending forward from the frame to the axle tube; I assume that provided the lower connection point, the axle-tube connected it lengthwise, and the upper control-arm connected it to the spring.

The axle-tubes connected to a center-pivot on a frame crossmeber. In the 2wd models, the geometry remained the same, but the axle tubes did not transmit any power.

------------------
Bob Barry<UL TYPE=SQUARE>* '78 Cherokee 4-door
* '88 Grand Wagoneer[/list]http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/

[scotty]

slippery,you are the greatest http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif it does look like a steering shaft doesnt it?

i also really dug jeepbobs coments on gm catching up with 40 year old jeep technology. http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

am i correct in thinking from this picture that the 6 cyl exhaust and intake manifolds are on the passenger side?

funky...



------------------
scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/t18/spicer 18 with pto/widetrac offset d44s/rear discs
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

vw turing brake,BIG tow truck PTO winch and full roll cage install very soon
4.0 aquired-4.5L stroker someday...

now we can do some 'wheelin!

[jeepbob]

Scotty,
The Tornado 6 was a funky motor that you would love. The were a Hemi head, Overhead cam,engine that only had 6 lobes on the cam as they used the same lobe for intake and exhaust as the vavles were canted on the angles to provide proper seperation. The motors are a long stroke motor the bore is 3.344 and the stroke is a whopping 4.375. The compression ratio was 8.5 to 1. Despite the long stroke, this motor was not the torque monster that you would think as it was only 210lbs at 1750 and 140 hp at4000. For a comparison the Hi-Torque 6 for the same years (65-66) was 215 lbs at 1600 and 215 hp at 4400. Its bore and stroke was 3.75x 3.5. This is the AMC 232. The tornado was also a "crossflow" motor meaning that the intake and exhaust were on opposite sides of the head from each other. This is how I could tell ti was a Tornado powered rig. I believe this motor was hanpered by 2 things. The first being the cam and the second being a poor intake runner design. This would be a motor that also would love EFI. I have a good running Tornado and it is real smooth.

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65 wag. 360/edelbrock rb4/t400/20 t-case/4:10 d27/d44 broken power lok/onboard air/onboard 110v power(no inverter)/1999 Lincoln t.c.leather buckets/Lincoln ctr console/winch/33x12.50/tunes/water proof door pads
soon to have new motor/d44frt/d60r(4:10)welded diff/custom bumpers
see ya in da mud