Shackle flip ideas

[newbie]

After reading about rear shackle flips on this forum, I was wondering if there is an easier way to perform this modification. I read that pre-75 FSJ's have a riveted shackle mount which lends itself easily to flipping. I was wondering if a pre-75 shackle mount could be flipped then bolted to a later model frame. (I'm about to buy, then lift, a '78 Waggie, and I'm curious if this is possible) Or could a shackle flip designed for a Blazer (with a similar shackle setup) work on a FSJ? I have very limited welding skills, and I don't know of any shop in the Houston, TX area that could easily pull off a shackle flip like River Beast. Any and all ideas are welcome! Also, if anyone has any ideas on relocating the front spring mount on the rear springs (for extra lift) it would be greatly appreciated!

~hoping my post makes sense!
Newbie-soon to be jeep owner!

[JeepFreak]

The rear spindle style mounts will work but the main problem is getting them off the frame. They are riveted to the frame. The rivets can be drilled but here is the kicker. The spindle is welded to the front plate(not a problem). The spindle goes thru a hole in the frame and is then welded to the backing plate on the inside of the frame. Now if you had a cutting torch it is a piece of cake to get it off but if you do not it is next to impossible. Also keep in mind that the spindle will have to be re-welded back to the backing plate once installed. I think it adds extra strength to the mount.

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JeepFreak

[This message has been edited by JeepFreak (edited April 22, 2001).]

[River Beast]

I have done the rear shackle inversion on my 78... took LOTS of paper and numbers to get it right....it compensates for my SOA up front with no blocks...

here is a llink to see... http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1388365&a=10360822&f=0


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Todd
"River Beast" (http://home.earthlink.net/~tjnkk)
http://home.earthlink.net/~riverbeast/rbthnl.jpg
14" of total Lift on 39.5" Swampers
44's locked with 4.89's
...and other stuff...
My Original FSJ site (http://www.geocities.com/spazz4life)
riverbeast@earthlink.net
"When approaching an intersection, remember...
the vehicle with the BIGGEST TIRES has the right of way..."

'93 3/4 ton 4x4 Suburban...a.k.a. "FSJ Hauler"

[newbie]

Jeepfreak, I'm trying to visualize it, but I'm having some problems...could you post or email me some pictures???

RiverBeast, Yeah, your fab work is outstanding, I've logged at least two hours on your website(s) reading your notes and drooling over your rig!

By the way, do any of you know if Revolver shackles will fit a FSJ??? I've seen them on Chevy Fullsize trucks (with a shackle flip) but haven't yet figured out if this would work on a big jeep.

Thanks,
Newbie

[River Beast]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by newbie:
RiverBeast, Yeah, your fab work is outstanding, I've logged at least two hours on your website(s) reading your notes and drooling over your rig!

By the way, do any of you know if Revolver shackles will fit a FSJ??? I've seen them on Chevy Fullsize trucks (with a shackle flip) but haven't yet figured out if this would work on a big jeep.

Thanks,
Newbie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks....I haven't done the research on the Revolvers...if you can find a Revolver shackle that fits a 3" leaf....you're there... at least that my leaf spring width...the shackle mount width is 2.75" if my memory serves me correctly.

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Todd
"River Beast" (http://home.earthlink.net/~tjnkk)
http://home.earthlink.net/~riverbeast/rbthnl.jpg
14" of total Lift on 39.5" Swampers
44's locked with 4.89's
...and other stuff...
My Original FSJ site (http://www.geocities.com/spazz4life)
riverbeast@earthlink.net
"When approaching an intersection, remember...
the vehicle with the BIGGEST TIRES has the right of way..."

'93 3/4 ton 4x4 Suburban...a.k.a. "FSJ Hauler"

[newbie]

River Beast,

After spending another hour on your web page last night, it occured to me, I can design the shackle flip brackets and lower front spring mounts myself and take them to a machine shop to be fabricated. (Wonder why I didn't think of that before) I think I'm going to borrow from a design from Off Road Design (who makes flip kits for the full size chevy's I mentioned earlier) Since I stink at welding I need to have these pieces fabbed so that I can take them back to my garage and bolt them on. I was wondering if you could post or email some measurements so I can get on AutoCad and start designing them! I'm guessing that since you got 7" of lift you dropped the front mount 5.5" (according to your photoshop pics) and mounted the rear shackle mount 4" lower. The shackle itself hangs down an additional 4.5" so that equates to 14" and half of that is the total lift netted, 7", right?? Also, how difficult is it to remove the front spring mount (of the rear springs)?

Anyway, thanks for the informative posts!

Newbie

[Stuka]

I got to looking at the rear of my 75 Cherokee, and it looks like it would be VERY easy to do a rear shackle flip. like, a few hour job.I dont have the chance to look at other cherokee's, so I can comapri if mine is different or the same. But on the back part of the shackle, there is a large stud that bolts and is welded to the frame. (kinda like described above) and the leaf connects to the shackle. Now correct me If I amm wrong, but cant i just unbold the shacke itself and drop the leafs below and bolt it back up upside down? Or is the a not-ssmart or unsafe thing to do?

[eArchery.net Dude]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JeepFreak:
The rear spindle style mounts will work but the main problem is getting them off the frame. They are riveted to the frame. The rivets can be drilled but here is the kicker. The spindle is welded to the front plate(not a problem). The spindle goes thru a hole in the frame and is then welded to the backing plate on the inside of the frame... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/eek.gif

Hey Newbie, Jeepfreak described it perfectly. On my 65 Wag I added 3" on the front with new Rancho leaf springs and I started the rear shackle flip, thinking like Stuka that it would take just a couple of hours but I am wiser after a frustrating day trying to do the shackle flip.

The problem was the leaf springs end up being too short after the flip to stay under the shackles. Looking at the left rear leaf and shackle the shackle ends up pointing between 7 to 8 o'clock (if it was the small hand on a clock). The owners of Valley Spring (Phoenix) say it needs to be between 5 and 6 o'clock for the springs to stay under when hitting the big bumps.
Sollution? I'm adding 3" in length by replacing the main leaf with a new one that will be rearched to my original springs, rebanded with a new center bolt. Theoretically this will add 3 3/4" to the rear clearance. Once this project is complete http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/biggrin.gif I will update you all and post some pictures too.



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eArchery.net Dude

Discounts to IFSJA Members at www.eArchery.net (http://www.eArchery.net) Family, Hunting, FSJ's

[River Beast]

Stuka... if you just flip the shackle the spring is going to be too short and you will have problems without moving the mount....Archery had the best fix without moving mounts...

Archery.... that is a GREAT innovative idea instead of moving the frame mount!!! I couldn't do this with my Skyacker springs though...The longer main leaf will correct the reverse wrap syndrome for sure..but make sure the centering pin is properly located in relation to your old OEM leaf.... too much of one way will cause unwanted rubbing... I suggest you ensure it's further back than the OEM(about 2" or so at a guess) if you are not planning on dropping down the front mount at all. Doing only one side of the leaf will also cahnge your pinion angle DRASTICALLY... watch for this...



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Todd
"River Beast" (http://home.earthlink.net/~tjnkk)
http://home.earthlink.net/~riverbeast/rbthnl.jpg
14" of total Lift on 39.5" Swampers
44's locked with 4.89's
...and other stuff...
My Original FSJ site (http://www.geocities.com/spazz4life)
riverbeast@earthlink.net
"When approaching an intersection, remember...
the vehicle with the BIGGEST TIRES has the right of way..."

'93 3/4 ton 4x4 Suburban...a.k.a. "FSJ Hauler"

[graham]

I've been pondering this for some time now.Just had a thought...no it didn't hurt!

How would this work?
Shift the shackle to the front of the rear springs and flip it, same setup as the front springs on my Jeep. Use the original rear frame mount for the rear eye?
A bit of cutting involved, but have not put a lot thought into the effects it would have on the geometery.

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BEAR HUNTER http://www.geocities.com/ozbearhunter/
'82 Cherokee Sportsman II,360, auto. As it rolled of the Show Room floor.
Except for;LPG conversion, On board air, plus water bag holder

[River Beast]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by graham:
I've been pondering this for some time now.Just had a thought...no it didn't hurt!

How would this work?
Shift the shackle to the front of the rear springs and flip it, same setup as the front springs on my Jeep. Use the original rear frame mount for the rear eye?
A bit of cutting involved, but have not put a lot thought into the effects it would have on the geometery.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not a good idea in my book Graham... first off, reversing the shackle would give a SEVERE downward pinion angle, which could be corrected by relocating the perches on the axle tubes. but most importantly, the flex and droop of the spring packs would be adversly affected by the severe angle of the spring mounting... the front mount (to the shackle in your theory) would be around 3.5" lower and the rear would be 3.5" higher, thus creating and angle flex and droop operation instead of up and down. At lastly, cutting the bottom of the exisisting rear mount to hard mount the spring to the rear would great reduce its strength and would need much support added in this area.

I feel this would be WAY too much work and the operational charactaristics of that type of setup don't seen too appealing.

Just something to think about, Graham.....



------------------
Todd
"River Beast" (http://home.earthlink.net/~tjnkk)
http://home.earthlink.net/~riverbeast/rbthnl.jpg
14" of total Lift on 39.5" Swampers
44's locked with 4.89's
...and other stuff...
My Original FSJ site (http://www.geocities.com/spazz4life)
riverbeast@earthlink.net
"When approaching an intersection, remember...
the vehicle with the BIGGEST TIRES has the right of way..."

'93 3/4 ton 4x4 Suburban...a.k.a. "FSJ Hauler"