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View Full Version : sell me on why I need a 401


78J10honcho
01-10-2011, 08:07 AM
here is the dilema, I have a line on a 401 out of an amc car, I can pick it up and some other stuff for a good price, but my rebuilt 360 only has 45k or so on it. I am going to pull my 360 out in a couple of days so I can cam it, paint it, and do a few other odds and ends. and my budget will only allow me to either buy the 401 and sell my 360 and some other stuff to fund the rebuild of the 401 or just use the $$ doll up my 360 and call it a day, so here is my dilema, is the 401 worth the trouble?? why or why not? as a side note my 360 is punched .40 over

janie
01-10-2011, 09:05 AM
I'd love nothing more than to have a 401 powered SJ. But..........if it ain't broke don't fix it.:)

Sounds like a good build was done on your 360. I'd run it til the cows came home.

scantar
01-10-2011, 09:07 AM
I'm with Janie on that one.

Just the same, I'm getting a comfy chair and the popcorn ready for this thread :D

jeepsr4ever
01-10-2011, 09:10 AM
You dont NEED a 401 you can build pretty close to the same power on the same curve that you need with a 360 it just takes a teeny bit more to do it. Only 10% more effort :D

Tatsadasayago
01-10-2011, 09:12 AM
Other than forged rods and crankshaft, more torque and a few HP, I find the bragging rights are the benefits of having a 401.
This is assuming both engines are stock or have the same changes made to them.

:drivin::fsj:

sappy76
01-10-2011, 09:13 AM
I did it when I found a good deal on a 401 and did it mainly to pacify my interest. I had a 30 over 360 with an edelbrock 650, intake, headers and rv cam. The 401 is now 30 over with headers, edelbrock intake, Comp Cam, Howell TBI.

Yes, there is a noticeable difference in torque and I no longer am wondering if it was worth it. (I found mine in a 83 cherokee that I bought for $1500. I rebuilt the 401 for $600 and stuffed a rebuilt 360 ($400 on the rebuild) into the 83 which I then sold for $2300. Total cost for the 401 upgrade was $200. Well worth the money.)

It's up to you but for me, spending less than a few hundred bucks to be able to boast having a 401 was worth it. (Gotta have something to justify the $3.30 gas prices.)

The question is "Do you need it?" No probably not. "Do you want it?" Oh yah.

Headhoncho
01-10-2011, 09:14 AM
Bragging rights is what I see the most going on. It's the largest displacement AMC engine, it's rare, and it's got a forged crank. All that could still be outperformed by a properly built and tuned 360. It just won't say 401 on the side of the block. I'll keep my 351.......for now.


JR

CJ the noisemaker
01-10-2011, 09:19 AM
I would just go with a 258 :thumbsup:

Also, waiting for either Flint or Krista to defend their crop.

tgreese
01-10-2011, 09:32 AM
If the 401 has a virgin block, I would buy it just to have it. Those seem scarce.

fulsizjeep
01-10-2011, 09:37 AM
I would just go with a 258 :thumbsup:

Also, waiting for either Flint or Krista to defend their crop.Yeah, everyone should go with a 258. :cool: Drop me an email when you pull your 6.6 in exchange for a 4.2, I will call for a frieght pickup. :p

FSJ Guy
01-10-2011, 10:00 AM
Why not just buy the 401 and sit on it? If the price is right, I wouldn't pass it up. I had mine in my garage for a few years before I finally got around to rebuilding it.

badaboom
01-10-2011, 10:01 AM
I say do what you want to do. We all have different ideas on what we want out of our FSJ.
Although we all want them to run, be reliable and enjoy them.

I had 80K on my motor 15k trans/transfer and had invested allot of time and $ for what I wanted in my FSJ. I Collected parts for a restore for over 4 years so when it came time to $hit or get off the pot so to speak I started in mainly with the body, frame and interior and was going to keep the rest of the drivetrain and replace as need over time. But when it got down to starting the work my Wife the great person and solemate that she is tells me I don't know why your just not going to replace the motor if your going to go through this truck refinishing -
Well I jumped onto that bandwagon and felt she was correct. I also felt that if I were to put in another motor I would go with the 401 why not. I can tell you also I started early on selling the old powerplant. The 360 I started trying to sell about 4 months prior to the work actually really starting with the teardown - lucky for me it sold just when it needed too, not that it would have mattered if I had sold it earlier but for me things came together at the right time so now the 360 is gone and I'm moving forward. Also as things have progressed and I have kept my eyes open I found a NV4500 5-spd trans to move to and went this route also. My plan for my truck is to be a great all around truck which the original truck is anyway in my opinion. I'm just going with what I feel is the best setup for the truck at this time for it to be a great driver and for it to take me where I want to go - long trips, hunting and just about anything/anywhere and so forth it will take me.

Its to each his own.
So with that said do what you want to do with your truck and be happy and enjoy it.

Karvin
01-10-2011, 10:21 AM
There are a few 401's in my area on CL, prices seem decent. I will be purchasing one to put on an engine stand to build while I run the CSB350 that is in there now. Kinda looking at the AMC327's as well, from what I have been reading they make decent torque in the lower RPM range... which is where I should be most of the time.

Anyone have (yes my search will happen right after I post this) HP/Torque specs on the 360 and 401? I would like to see what the actual difference is and where it happens at RPM wise.

Begin Edit *** http://www.matadorcoupe.com/images/enginespecchart.jpg

Is this chart accurate?

janie
01-10-2011, 10:39 AM
I would just go with a 258 :thumbsup:




Corey did you get smacked in the head?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/79j10peso/deer29.gif



:)

710 Burner
01-10-2011, 11:52 AM
The doctor dropped him on his head when he was born. :cool:

tgreese
01-10-2011, 12:27 PM
There are a few 401's in my area on CL, prices seem decent. I will be purchasing one to put on an engine stand to build while I run the CSB350 that is in there now. Kinda looking at the AMC327's as well, from what I have been reading they make decent torque in the lower RPM range... which is where I should be most of the time.

Anyone have (yes my search will happen right after I post this) HP/Torque specs on the 360 and 401? I would like to see what the actual difference is and where it happens at RPM wise.

Begin Edit *** http://www.matadorcoupe.com/images/enginespecchart.jpg

Is this chart accurate?

Why? If the 350 works well, stick with it. Why incur the trouble and expense to change to a different engine? Drive it and be proud.

Karvin
01-10-2011, 12:59 PM
Trying really hard not to hijack this thread, but you asked....

Most of my driving will be off-road in the low to mid RPM range. (Thats the plan anyways.) Not included on the chart I linked to is the AMC 327 that in the right configuration appears to be "out torquing" the 360 and 401 at lower RPM range. Wiki brings up another chart that I was using to make that comparison.

The CSB350 is all over the place with HP/Torque depending on the year. So without grabbing some numbers and doing a search it is difficult to tell what stock HP/Torque is running. (Engine isn't stock, so after grabbing base HP/Torque it is all guess work anyways.) I am more comfortable with the Chevy motors because I am more familiar with them. I can see myself becoming comfortable with the AMC motors after a short adjustment to their quirks.

I have no bias against any manufacturers engines, I am merely trying to educate myself on the strengths and weakness of each. I have to admit I am liking the thought of the 401 due to it's nickel content, but parts availability is putting a damper on that. AMC 327 is looking nice because of the specs on HP/Torque. Without putting it on a dyno... I would have to say that going away from the existing CSB350 might be a mistake.

Jeep/AMC/Kaizer seems like they were ahead of their competition in the day and age. With modern components available for "bolt on" installation with the CSB that advantage is long gone.

Caffeine makes me ramble on.

Josh D
01-10-2011, 01:58 PM
Trying really hard not to hijack this thread, but you asked....

Most of my driving will be off-road in the low to mid RPM range. (Thats the plan anyways.) Not included on the chart I linked to is the AMC 327 that in the right configuration appears to be "out torquing" the 360 and 401 at lower RPM range. Wiki brings up another chart that I was using to make that comparison.

The CSB350 is all over the place with HP/Torque depending on the year. So without grabbing some numbers and doing a search it is difficult to tell what stock HP/Torque is running. (Engine isn't stock, so after grabbing base HP/Torque it is all guess work anyways.) I am more comfortable with the Chevy motors because I am more familiar with them. I can see myself becoming comfortable with the AMC motors after a short adjustment to their quirks.

I have no bias against any manufacturers engines, I am merely trying to educate myself on the strengths and weakness of each. I have to admit I am liking the thought of the 401 due to it's nickel content, but parts availability is putting a damper on that. AMC 327 is looking nice because of the specs on HP/Torque. Without putting it on a dyno... I would have to say that going away from the existing CSB350 might be a mistake.

Jeep/AMC/Kaizer seems like they were ahead of their competition in the day and age. With modern components available for "bolt on" installation with the CSB that advantage is long gone.

Caffeine makes me ramble on.

Any HP/TQ numbers you get for the AMC 327 will be gross numbers. All 401 numbers will be SAE net. The AMC 360 can be found in both gross and net numbers. It makes it hard to compare. In stock configuration, I highly doubt the Rambler 327 makes more torque than a 401 or 360.

And as comparing to SBC, unless you're talking about early '90s TPI and later motors, the GenIII AMC V8 (360, 401) have greater power potential due to better flowing factory heads. Of course a SBC can be built to just about any displacement, compression ratio, and aftermarket head choice as one can imagine due to aftermarket support. But if you take the average smog era 8.5 CR 350 and 8.5 CR AMC 360, give them similiar cams, intake and exhaust, the AMC will make more power due to better flowing heads.

will e
01-10-2011, 02:19 PM
No, it's not worth the swap or the money.

I went with a 401 but my 360 was old a tired. The 401 came up on a local EBAY auction. It was rebuilt and priced right and no frieght charges. Had it been a 360 I would have picked it up anyways.

401 is nice for bragging and if you had to swap motors and one was available i would say 'why not'. But in your case I wouldn't bother.

Take the time and money and do something else. Lockers, roll bar, winch, etc...

tazjeeper
01-10-2011, 02:22 PM
build your 360 as you already have it.
let me know where the 401 is so I can buy it,,,,LOL
oh wait you said you wanted me to sell you on the idea of a 401..
hummmmm I dont know but let me know if you do not buy it...LoL

mdill
01-10-2011, 02:40 PM
I would just go with a 258 :thumbsup:

Also, waiting for either Flint or Krista to defend their crop.

Or a 4.5L stroker (four is too small, eight is too bulky !)

moorehouse77
01-10-2011, 06:01 PM
I enjoy the torque of my 401 over some of my buddys 360's but its hardly worth it if you have a good running 360 with a semi recent rebuild. It doesn't have that much more power. I've read the 401 can be a crap shoot if you need to have it bored out. The cylinder walls are pretty thin from the factory and (again I have read) that you can run into overheating issues after it gets bored if the walls are too thin. Being that I have a 401, I beleive you would be disapointed in the it after all the work of buying replacing rebuilding and whatnot. My vote is to continue on with you plan to recam and paint the 360. If you have the coin you should buy the 401 and slowly work on it until the 360 dies and needs to be replaced then drop in the 401. Just my 2 cents.


Dave.

78J10honcho
01-10-2011, 06:52 PM
my truck sees limited mileage so my 360 should last a LONG time as long as I take care of it, and it seems that the bragging rights don't outweight the work needed to make this work, I will probably just doll up my 360 and call it a day, I will probably still give the 401 a good look and if looks like a good viable motor I will let you guys know and make it available to who ever may be interested in it, thanks for all of the good discussion, it really helped me make my decision

Eugene 1
01-10-2011, 08:01 PM
i kind of like the 327 and the 390 myself

Daddio
01-10-2011, 08:20 PM
The way I see it is it doesn't cost more to rebuild a 401 than a 360, but in the end it will be worth more due to supply and demand.

I haven't ever had a 401, but I'm always keeping an eye open.

To me this debate is just like to cadillac 472 vs 500 engines, and I do have experience with these. The 472 makes almost the same power, but it has a different power curve and it revs quicker and maybe even a little higher. The 500 will smoke the tires longer and use more gas. Unfortunately it doesn't have 500 on the side of the block so no one knows unless you tell them.

PlasticBoob
01-10-2011, 08:37 PM
Why not just buy the 401 and sit on it? If the price is right, I wouldn't pass it up. I had mine in my garage for a few years before I finally got around to rebuilding it.

Agreed. I saw a 401 for sale a couple of years ago and jumped on it ASAP. You CANNOT find 401s in Southern California.

Get the 401 and rebuild it for next time. They're rare, and if you plan on ever having a presentable "collectible" FSJ, they will make it that much cooler. Wait until you have enough money again, and then do all the other goodies you planned on doing originally.

Of course if you don't give a crap and an engine's just an engine to you, why are you even asking? Just stick with your 360. Some guys don't care as long as they have a running powerplant. I don't feel that way about FSJs - I feel that way about Hondas. :D

amcpsycho2
01-10-2011, 09:27 PM
build your 360 as you already have it.
let me know where the 401 is so I can buy it,,,,LOL
oh wait you said you wanted me to sell you on the idea of a 401..
hummmmm I dont know but let me know if you do not buy it...LoL

:funny: Yeah,what he said!!!!

amcpsycho2
01-10-2011, 09:33 PM
Agreed. I saw a 401 for sale a couple of years ago and jumped on it ASAP. You CANNOT find 401s in Southern California.

Get the 401 and rebuild it for next time. They're rare, and if you plan on ever having a presentable "collectible" FSJ, they will make it that much cooler. Wait until you have enough money again, and then do all the other goodies you planned on doing originally.

Of course if you don't give a crap and an engine's just an engine to you, why are you even asking? Just stick with your 360. Some guys don't care as long as they have a running powerplant. I don't feel that way about FSJs - I feel that way about Hondas. :D

What did you guys do with all those 401 powered 70's Matador cop cars that you guys had out there????Did they scrap them after they used them in all the Cheech and Chong movies?LOL!!!

HOOT
01-10-2011, 10:13 PM
So what are going prices for a 401 nowadays?

Last I sold mine it was around $500 for one that needed gone through and freshened up.

Slightly less for one that definitely needed rebuilt..

$1000 for a runner with no frills. Just a decent running engine, either still in vehicle or fresh out of service.

$2500 or so for a somewhat fresh rebuilt engine.

Through the roof for a hyped up 401 built just for you.

I sold my Dad's hyped up,20,000 miles on a rebuild , been sitting un-run for 10 years for $400 to get it out of my garage, cause I was getting ready to move.
My 360 in the J20 has been all redone and then some.Only 15,000 on its rebuild. Couldn't justify unplugging it.

The J10 Honcho is a factory 401 and it's under the knife as we speak.

Now I'm in the new place and eyeballing a set of 401's that need a new home.:cool: I figured that was the only currency Jubilee Jeeps accepted for overnighters.:D

REDONE
01-10-2011, 10:23 PM
So what are going prices for a 401 nowadays?

Last I sold mine it was around $500 for one that needed gone through and freshened up.

Slightly less for one that definitely needed rebuilt..

$1000 for a runner with no frills. Just a decent running engine, either still in vehicle or fresh out of service.

$2500 or so for a somewhat fresh rebuilt engine.

Through the roof for a hyped up 401 built just for you.

I sold my Dad's hyped up,20,000 miles on a rebuild , been sitting un-run for 10 years for $400 to get it out of my garage, cause I was getting ready to move.
My 360 in the J20 has been all redone and then some.Only 15,000 on its rebuild. Couldn't justify unplugging it.

The J10 Honcho is a factory 401 and it's under the knife as we speak.

Now I'm in the new place and eyeballing a set of 401's that need a new home.:cool: I figured that was the only currency Jubilee Jeeps accepted for overnighters.:D
There are always exceptions to the rule, but as a rule you're prices listed are about 20% low for both Eastern CO and Western WA. Those are the two markets I've been watching and shopping in most closely and I think it's a fair representation of the rest of the lower 48.