Try on this equation

[Brown Bear]

OK:

10 minutes to start + 10 minutes to warm up + 10 minutes to get there + 5 minutes extra to be on the safe side= if I wanted to be somewhere at 3, I would have to go out to the truck at 2:25. I turn the key, pump the gas (before and after) until she starts. About .01 seconds later she dies and I repeat process. After about 8,9 repeats she finally stays running. Then put her in gear, repeat starting process again. I've got a manual choke, as far as I can tell all of the hoses are where they should be. Any ideas?

Nathaniel

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1984 Grand Wagoneer
bone stock
P235/75 R15 Daytona Stag XT

[gbarrett]

Been there done that with a Ford 302. My problem was a bad carb. When it was cold, it would draw air from seals around the throttle shaft. Rebuilding it didn't help because during a normal rebuild, you don't replace those seals. When it begins to idle, spray some starting fluid or in the past I've used WD40 around the carb and see if she revs up. If so, you've found the problem. When the carb warms up, the seals swell enough to keep it under control. I hope this helps.

Greg

1984 GW, stock, except for Rhino front end. http://home.earthlink.net/~getoverit/

[andy d]

i'm not even gonna ask about why the manual choke. all i can think of is that perhaps you are over choking the engine. case in point. my 47 gmc pu needed very little choke.i only hadda pull that knob out lessen 1/2". IIrc i only hadda keep it out about a minute. you are in unknown territory, adapting a manual choke into a carb set up for an automatic choke. sounds like something aint right. is the oil gassin up?

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'88 gwag,pure stock

[Brown Bear]

I went the way of the manual choke cause the the electric wasn't working and I don't have the know how to get it working correctly. I plan on replacing the carb anyway, but who knows when that will be. Haven't tried the spray thing yet, will have to try that sometime, lord only knows when that will be (I'm a postal employee, don't rush me, ok).

Everything else on the truck runs nominal, AFAICT. I haven't put awholelot of effort into this problem yet. Spent two days with an oil pan and still haven't recovered yet. Only good thing is is that this is no longer my daily drive, or maybe that's a bad thing.

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1984 Grand Wagoneer
bone stock
P235/75 R15 Daytona Stag XT

[Brown Bear]

Also I should add that I have to pump it quite a few times before it will even think about starting. Usually it's: pump pump pump, turn turn turn (but not fire), pump pump pump, turn turn turn (hint of fire), pump pump pump, turn turn (fire), and so on.

Nathaniel

[MonsterMash]

You forgot to add in the stop at the gas station every other trip! http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
How does your rig run after it's warm? In addition to the possibility of leaky gaskets in the carb. you should check the mounting gasket (between the bottom of the carb. and the intake) as they can warp and give a big time vacuum leak. Are you sure you're getting fuel to the carb? When you choke it does it ever flood?

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'84GW360--"Spinner"
Bigger tires and better stereo but pretty much stock
Most everything works some of the time!
1st Annual Jefferson FSJ Mud Run:

http://home.earthlink.net/~worthservices/index.html

[Manhattan]

I have a freshly rebuilt 360, new carb, new_____ (fill in blank) .... I go through the same process. Mine kinda sounds like: "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, (Turn key again) Aaaaaaaaa, Aaaaaaaaaaaaa Mmmmm (Turn key again) Aaaaaaaaaaa, Aaaaaaaa Mmmmmm (and again) Aaaaaaa, Mmmmmmm, Ccc (Finally) AMC!

I Think it's the nature of the beast.

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a.k.a."Bushwood" '88 G-Wag' New 360, 3" Springs, 31" ATs, Custom Roof Rack, 2.5" Dynomax Exhaust... rest stock.

[Teach]

Would a leak in the seals explain backfire when cold and pushing on the throttle? or am I looking at a leak somewhere else?

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Teach
'76 Wagoneer
360,Q-T,Edlebrock Intake/carb, D44's, 3.07, really big after market gas tank!
"If it ain't one thing, it's another...."

[SpruceMoose]

a backfire (thru the carb) is usually a sign of a lean mixture, while an afterfire (thru the exhaust) is from too rich a mixture. all this assumes that everything else is ok (but we have fsj's, so we know better, right?). i now have instant start and drive! see sig. also, i have found a way to pass more than 4 gas stations in a row..........a 500 gallon trailer! http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/wink.gif

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88 Grand Wagoneer
"Spruce Moose"
AMC 360
DANA 44 F/R 2.72
TF 727
NP 229
Jacobs Pro-Street Ign.
Edelbrock Intake
Holley 2bbl Pro-Jection
Flowmaster 2.5" 50 Series Delta muffler and tubing
Amzoil foam air filter
Amzoil fluids all around
30x9.5 BFG AT

Mileage? We don't need no stinkin' mileage!

[Wagthe78]

BrownBear,

I think that with a manual choke (if it's working) that you should be able to keep the rig running after started. Maybe you do have several contributing gremlins.

Does that pumping, squirt gas into the bores?

Is your timing delayed? (good setting for engine=quick start) Also, does your vacuum advance work when cold?(you should see a noticeable difference in timing with and without vac. to distributor)

Does that manual choke close down? (but still leave a slight opening for some air to get through?)

Is this thing tuned up? (Dirty plugs, wrong gap or plugs, cruded up cap/rotor, weak ignition=poor starting)

????

[Brown Bear]

et all:

Gas gets through the bores good and easy. Don't really know about the timing, haven't got a light to check. Some plugs are good, some are covered in something. New wires, starter, alt, module, and coil (though none are true upgrades). The vacuum leak sounds very suspect because I think I fractured one of the carb base corners (thanks to crappy torque wrench) when reinstalling after rebuild. When I finally get it running, and then running in gear, for a little bit it will hesitate very noticeably until I let off the gas and depress slowly. After it's good and warm (which is not very warm), it drives great. I haven't checked the vacuum advance either, could very easily be a problem, wouldn't put it past her.

Nathaniel

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1984 Grand Wagoneer
bone stock
P235/75 R15 Daytona Stag XT

[This message has been edited by Brown Bear (edited December 05, 2000).]

[RudyC]

When you replaced to manual choke does it still operate the fast idle speed?
When you finally do start it does it idle really fast without you touching the pedal. Reason is you may have the idle speed too low upon start up.
Also I am suspect of your accelerator pump.

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1979 WAGONEER, 360,
TEAM RUSH TFI CONVERSION (EL CHEAPO VERSION), TH400, Q- TRAC. 3" ADD A LEAFS, 31" MUD T/A'S (PEP BOYS CLONES).
" Go farther, it only breaks on the street"

[reddog]

If your fouling certain sounds like carb rebuild time if the motor is healthy (good compression). If it really runs fine when warm then it's the choke or a possible vacuum leak that gets better when warm albiet thats unlikely. When you say the carb base may be fractured do you mean the "plastic" piece that goes under the carb or the actual carb itself. I have the ears (2) of the plastic piece broken and mine seals ok. If the carb is broken then it will be hard or impossible to get the carb base to seal -thats a problem!. I would get that new carb and go back to the automatic choke. Its really not to hard to set-up and adjust. IMHO the manual/rebuild kits make it sound like brain surgery, most often its a minor adjustment of the heater coil tension to set how long the choke stays on and your set.

[Brown Bear]

When it comes to carbs i'm literally clueless. The ear on the carb itself is broken, the spacer is fine. I have to turn the screws out atleast 3 1/4 just to get the beast to idle good (which threw out any hopes I had of getting any kind of mileage out of her). If anybody's got a 4v manifold to fit my truck, now might be a good time to hit me up for it.

Nathaniel

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1984 Grand Wagoneer
bone stock
P235/75 R15 Daytona Stag XT