starter shims

[HeavyMetal]

Had to replace my starter and now it sounds like I'm having alignment problems. Seems to be common with Jeeps. After cleaning all the grounds sounds normal while spinning but the bendix doesn't sound like its completely disengaging. Starter bench tests ok and this is the second new one so far. Have a .10 shim on right now. Do shims come in like a variety pack and if so where can you get them? What is the max shimming that is deemed exceptable? I know shims aren't the best solution but I don't know what else to do. Any imput would be highly appreciated. Thanks

[joe]

I just buy sheets of shim stock and make my own when needed. I've never had(yet) to shim a Jeep starter though. Also IIRC alum beer can stock is about 0.003"

[Smooshy]

I have herd of shimming starters but in all my years I have never had any issues were I thought that was necessary. How can you tell? What are the symptoms?

[Rogue]

better take a good look at your flywheel, chebby is the only starter ive ever had to shim (designed that way) amc, ford, chryco - no shims

[HeavyMetal]

Well without the shim you actually have to turn the starter a bit to seat and it stays without the bolts. Like the bendix and the ring gear are engaged. With the shim I have in there now you have to put the bolts in to keep from falling out. The guy at the parts store said Ford starters needing shims are common and the shim I got was specificly for the Ford starter. What it sounds like is the bendix is hanging up on the ringgear but not under power if that makes sense. In other words the starter shuts off but the bendix is still spinning. The ring gear is in good shape, no missing teeth and doesn't appear to be warped.

[Cecil14]

I was told the opposite of that - you shouldn't need to shim a ford starter. I'm eating through starters here. The bearing in the end keeps going out and then the shaft gets pushed away from the flywheel and eats the ring gear. Any ideas?

Anthony

[Stolen76]

Something there doesn't sound quite right. I've never seen an AMC or a ford shimmed. The only type you need to shim are the style that bolt to the block from the bottom.

[Rogue]

Originally posted by Stolen76:
Something there doesn't sound quite right. I've never seen an AMC or a ford shimmed. The only type you need to shim are the style that bolt to the block from the bottom.i second that

i don't know it all but I do happen to be an ASE Master tech and have been working on cars pro - 10 years and altogether 15 years and i have like i said never shimmed amc,ford or chryco - i guess anything is possible - heck we put a man on the moon - but i see absolutely no reason to put a shim on this style of starter as it will only lessen your bendix depth of engagement NOT adjust your ring gear to bendix clearance

[ December 05, 2002, 04:44 PM: Message edited by: RogueStar ]

[mdill2]

I have never had to shim a ford style starter
either, adding shimms if done equally (top and
bottom) would only move the starter outward from
the ring gear, which would not do jack as far
as gear clearance goes, I guess you could add
shims asymetricly but I have never had reason
to try that on a ford, only bottom up starters
used by GM.

Good luck with her Mike D.

[HeavyMetal]

Ok, the general thought here is that AMC, Ford starters shouldn't need to be shimmed, so what else could be causing the problem? Solenoid is new and so is the ignition switch battery checks out ok, (starts truck when posts jumped, no change in starter sound) and I'm using #2 cables. Starter getting power so the fusible links seem ok, all grounds have been cleaned. First starter sounded like it was trying to tear its guts out. Second starter sounded normal while starting but the bendix gear seemed to be hanging up once the truck started, third sounds as bad as the first.
I'm at a loss here

[andy d]

where are you getting your starters. ive never had to shim a starter in a jeep either.

[HeavyMetal]

Getting the starters from Carquest

[porchpiggy]

I've had to shim a ford starter, it was a rebuilt on a mustang. The gear was still touching the drive gear, just barely. It would turn the starter drive with the engine running. It was such a small amount as a matter of fact, that if I did not tighten the bolts beyond 4 or 5 foot pounds it would work okay. I shimmed iot and it worked fine. I know it is rare to have to shim a ford starter, but believe me, if you go to the "help" (motormite) rack in any parts store you will find a ford starter shim on the rack. They sell them or they would not carry them.

[Crazy_Jeepman]

While myself I have never had to shim a Ford starter, I do know they must need to be from time to time...........I see they sell them at all fine parts stores!! I have never had to shim an AMC starter either.

[Rogue]

i get what you are saying now, the problem isn't the clearance the problem is the flywheel is still hitting the bendix after it is started - is that right? in that case I would have to say yea a shim would help a lot

[kyjman]

Go spend the extra bucks for a really good quality starter and that will end your starter problems. The cheap starters all have defective nose cone bushings which causes the mis-alignment with the ring gear. I went through this on my truck. Since I put a quality starter on I've not had a problem. This was after replacing the ring gear twice. Good luck

[porchpiggy]

I really have to agree with the Jman on this one, all the chain type parts stores are getting into these price wars to get the cheapest rebuilds. Some of the quality has gone down hill fast. I have this mental picture of ex-mcdonalds burger flippers with 20 minutes of training sitting on the production line for way to little pay. I work part time for an independently owned store that sells carquest stuff, we went to an independent warehouse for starters and alternators because the inexpensive line of carquest rebuilds are not very good quality. The mustang starter I referred to earlier was a cheap rebuild that eventually came apart, I could not keep the two bolts that hold the cover on from coming out. I replaced it with a carquest more expensive one and it did not need shimmed, or give me any other problems. If you get a really cheap rebuild I think you are taking your chances with the quality, but that's not to say that an expensive one is always better. We have had real good luck selling a brand of rebuild that says "Endurance" on the box, it's a black box with yellow writing. We almost never get one back for any reason.

[HeavyMetal]

I agree that the quality between the "cheap" starters and the more expensive one seem to be real. On one starter the bendix shaft had so much slop that I could lift the bendix gear and shaft. However I've tried all the Carquest line with the same results. I put a straight edge on the starter mounting surface and measured the space between the ring gear and the mounting surface and compared to the distance on the starter and the bendix gear edge and there is no clearance issue. Weird. I've since gotten a Napa starter but haven't tried it out yet. Will istall tomarrow. Comparing the Carquest to the Napa the nose cone end on the Napa is closed while the Carquest is open. Beginning to think the quality of bushing in Carquest line is substandard. Anyway I'll update once the Napa is installed. Thanks for all the imput!