Anyone running a 5 speed behind a 360 or 401?

[Grantshire]

I read a lot of hype about the NV4500 5 speed and some other truck 5 speeds in the 4x4 magaizines. For those of us that are trying to strike a balance between a FSJ that can cruise the Interstate at 75mph at less than 3000 rpm's and one that is respectable off-road with 35" tires a 5 speed makes a lot of sense. However, the T18's that came in our vehicles had very long input shafts. Have any of you swapped to a 5 speed? What are the issues/pros/cons of going this route? What transfer case did you use with what 5 speed? I've done a couple of searches but did not find the much information. A lot of people were going to make the swap but did not find many who had.
As always, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience with those of us without.

Grantshire

[ February 25, 2004, 07:33 AM: Message edited by: Grantshire ]

[TexasJ10]

I have had a nv4500 in the garage for awhile waiting to go in. On ebay right now a guy is selling the adapter that goes between a t150 bellhouisng and the dodge version of the nv4500. $100 or so. This adapter workes with the dodge version because the input shaft on the dodge version is 7.5" long. The output on a standard dodge version has 23 splines just like the jeep 208 transfer case, driver side drop, and the tailhousing adapter is indexed the same as the 208. For that matter you could use the 241 that is typically behind this tranny, but it is a slip yoke design. If you want to go to a passenger side drop, I'm not sure of the available transfer cases. The tailhousing has the standard NP round bolt pattern indexed for dodge and ford. The Chevy indexing is different.

[ February 25, 2004, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: TexasJ10 ]

[jode]

64Travlr (who I haven't seen on the forum of late :( ) used to have a lot of info on the NV4500 swap, and IIRC, he had one installed in his rig. You might try looking up some of his old posts on it.

[Grantshire]

TexasJ10, Your posts are some of the ones my search found. Is your NV4500 a Dodge or Chevy? Do you have the 5.61 1st gear? The T18 for my V8 has about a 5" adapter between the bellhousing and trasmission. I beleive the Dodge adapter is about 1". Won't that move the NV4500 several inches closer to the firewall/dash than the T18 set up?

Also, the setup on ebay is for 4 cylinder AX-5 setup. Will this have the same bolt pattern as my 79 AMC 360?

[ February 25, 2004, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: Grantshire ]

[Cecil14]

Where the tranny is at exactly isn't a real big deal. Unless the shifter comes up in front of the firewall you should be able to bend it a bit to get it where you can shift it. Take a look in an older fullsize ford truck. The shifters for those came up square under the dash. They just had some good bends in them to put the knob up by the seat.

64travlr did have one in his rig I think but it was behind a sbc so the front half of the swap wouldn't apply to grantshire's question. I am curious to know what he did with the t-case though...can't remember.

Anthony

[carrotman]

Years ago, someone, maybe Advance Adaptors made an overdrive unit that attached to the rear of the Model 20 TC. Since you don't need overdrive in 4Wheel drive, you could have low gearing with the T18, and high gearing with the overdrive. Cheaper and less fabrication than the NV4500, if you can find it.

[jode]

Originally posted by Grantshire:
Also, the setup on ebay is for 4 cylinder AX-5 setup. Will this have the same bolt pattern as my 79 AMC 360?I am like 99% sure the answer is “no.”

[TexasJ10]

My mistake on the ebay adapter. I confused it with one that I saw on there earlier. Same principal, wrong engine patterm. Advances Adapters has the one that works for the 360, but it is $250 or so new.

The shifter on the NV4500 is located towards the rear of the tranny rather than in the center like the t18. While this doesn't move it all the way back to the same place as the t18 would be, it does move it out from under the dash so that there is not any interference.

I have a dodge version which I had built with a chevy input shaft, and 29 spline output. This mates up to a NP271 tranfer case. It's a monster and I don't think it is going to fit without severe downward indexing. I also have two chevy versions. One is the early version with the 6.34 granny, 32 spline output. It had the bearings replaced before I bought it and I will probably sell it soon. The other chevy version came out of a truck with only 1000 miles on it. This is the tranny I will probably be using. I found the adapter bellhousing as a clearance item on AA's website. It looks like this is going to work real well with a Klune behind the tranny and ford np205 behind that. I put a 32 spline input in the transfer case to make it easier to get a standard klune.

FSjeeper has advocated the ranger overdrive unit which would fit in between the bellhousing and the t18 as the best way to get overdrive. The ranger replaces the current bellhousing extension used. He may be right. It all depends what you can get your hands on cheaply. I'm starting to see the dodge nv4500s showing up at cheaper prices and I suspect that this might be the cheapest way to go depending what you do about a transfer case.

[JeepsAndGuns]

I have also thought about the overdrive that AA sells. I seen it in their sales mag. I thought it seemed like a cool idea. Hey TexasJ10, how mutch would you sell one of those 4500's for? I might be interested. --Jared

[Al Johnson]

I'm not sure how helpful this will be, but I'll post it anyway, and you decide.

I've got a Jeep AX-15 tranny behind an '84 GW 360 in my '87 Wrangler. It has the NP231 case on it. It came out of a 90 or so XJ Cherokee. It bolts right up. So far the tranny has held up well in 5K miles.

Of course this rig is lighter than an FSJ, but probably by less than 1000 lb.

If you decide to go this route, be sure to use GL3 or GL4 lube in the trans, preferably Redline. GL5 rear end lube will kill the brass synchros.

Al

[arakele]

T-5 from a Mustang will fit any AMC engine if you get the bellhousing from SR-4 ('76-'81), T-4 ('82-'88) or T-5 ('83-'88), and the throw out arm and bearing, from the same bell. Also the front bearing retainer is needed, if you don't want to modify the Mustang part. Right clutch disc with the correct # of splines that also fits the pressure plate you're using, and the pilot bearing is also needed.

as far as t-case i wouldnt be able to tell ya. i grabbed that info a long time ago from some sweedish jeep group when i built up my old gremlin for racing. i ran the t-5 behind a 360. but then again i ran a smaller weight and 2wd. HTH

[joe]

The T-5 WC(World Class) from a Mustang is a lot stronger than the standard T-5 used in FSJ's behind 258's but even the WC has a really poor first gear ratio for 4wheeling.

[TexasJ10]

From Al's comment, maybe that AX15 bellhousing and adapter would mate an NV4500 to an AMC 360.

Jeepsandguns, I will probably put the early model chevy NV4500 on ebay along with the adapter bellhousing specifically for that NV4500 and a jeep v8. If you want to email me we can talk before I do that. I have never run that tranny since I bought it, but I think I still have the emails from the previous owner indicating that new bearings and possibly synchros were installed before shipment to me. The previous owner was Chad Enyart. He lives in Wyoming and may be the same guy you see on TV at Wyotech.

[Grantshire]

From what I read the Dodge has a slightly longer input shaft. I also like the Dodge 5.61 1st gear better than the Chebby 6.32. I think I would switch to the NV4500 instead of the T18 if I could talk to someone who has done this swap on a FSJ. I have a garage full of transmission so I can go a lot of directions. I have 3 T18's (2 Jeep, 1 Scout), 3 Dana 20's (also 2 Jeep, 1 Scout) and a Dana 300 (its bolted behind a 727) sitting in the garage. Oh, and then there's the SM465/205 mated pair... and the 727 and TC from the 84 Wagoneer... and the 700R4 (2wd). And then there is the TH400/QT w/part-time & OD that's in it!

But what the hay, a 5 speed with OD would be really cool! Then I could sell off all these others.

[TexasJ10]

Grantshire, I'm with you. It's time to pick a drivetrain and sell the rest. BTW, The 1996 and later GM's have the same 5.61 first gear ratio. Only the early GM NV4500 had the 6.32. The dodge input shafts are about 1" longer than the GM shafts, That is why they are better for conversions using an adapter plate rather than an adapter bellhousing.

[zmjeeps]

I put an NV4500 in mine, but I have a Caddy engine. I used a BOP Lakewood bellhousing and an adapter plate I made myself to put the trans to the bellhousing. Lakewood used to make AMC bellhousings, but not anymore. The reason its nice to use a lakewood is because its steel, you can drill and tap a hole or weld a nut on anywhere you need to so it will work. It could be done with an aluminum AMC bellhousing minus the 5" adapter, and a custom adapter.

[Elliott]

Tellico had a write up on how to do it for a jeep, my link went bad. Anyone have the article? It listed all the parts and sources also.
Main url: http://www.tellico4x4.com/index.html

[ February 28, 2004, 07:22 AM: Message edited by: Elliott ]