HELP...missing front drive shaft

[83 WagDriver]

Hello.....Im on the verge of buying an 81 wag limited....it runs great.Only one problem. It's missing the front drive shaft. Does anyone know why someone would pull off that front drive shaft??I believe this wag is a full time 4wd...as i stated b4...it runs great. :confused:

[Crazy_Jeepman]

Couple reasons it may have been pulled. Bad Double cardigan or U-Joints. Or there is a problem with the front Axle. I have seen rigs with the front axles pulled out and the front driveshafts removed due to a blown front Diff. Ask the owner why it is missing, what the reason for pulling it was. Also check front yolk on T-Case for excessive play. Try to find out if it was ever driven with T-Case engaged in 4 wheel drive since drive shaft removal, as this would be very bad thing to do to the T-Case. If you buy it and need a front driveshaft. I have several. Check it out thoroughly. Good Luck ;)

[ritepath]

I bought an 81 limited a couple months ago and it's front drive shaft was missing also. Maybe the little green guys from mars need CV shafts for their flying disks.

[joe]

Beware...the only rigs I've ever seen for sale with the front shaft missing is because of the reasons CJM mentioned above or they've been lifted/altered and the front shaft has clearance probs.
The usual lame reason is "oh, I just haven't put it back in yet" or "my brother needed it for his Jeep".
BS...if the seller wants cash money he can take 10 minutes out of his busy selling schedule and put the shaft back in.
Then drive it and look for drive train probs.
If he won't install it for whatever reason...walk away. There are lots of other FSJ's out there.

[Joe J-Truck]

Maybe they just removed it to replace a u-joint... or maybe swapped in a passenger side earlier front axle??? Look carefully.

[Narnian]

FullTime 4WD on an 80-82 was provided by the NP219 "Quadra track".
There is another possibility when an 80 to 82 quadra track is involved.

My 81 came stock with the limited slip rear. I don't remember the fancy name Jeep gave this setup. When you make tight turns on pavement (like in a parking lot) the limited slip and the NP219 quadra track work "against" eachother to make the tires chirp front to rear to front to rear. As best as I've had it described to me, the NP219 is more like a limited slip Tcase than anything else you might want to call it. It is not a viscous coupling with the fancy "jelly" like the older quadra tracks. If you don't have the limited slip rear you will not notice this "problem."

It's very unnerving if you don't know what's going on, and if you have oversized tires you can wear them out pretty quick. The previous owner told me he would remove the front drive shaft in the summertime unless he was going offroad somewhere, because he didn't like the chirping sounds in the parking lots, but it was in place when I bought the truck from him.

I would still question the current owner. Removing the driveshaft can be signs of a lot of other problems. For instance, if the TCase was stuck in 4Hi, the Qtrack would constantly chirp your tires on any pavement turn.

[ December 30, 2001: Message edited by: Narnian ]

[joe]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Narnian:
As best as I've had it described to me, the NP219 is more like a limited slip Tcase than anything else you might want to call it. It is not a viscous coupling with the fancy "jelly" like the older quadra tracks. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You were on the right track Narnian but ya got it backasswards :D
The original BW/QT 1339 has clutch cones and the NP219(newer 'also named' QT 1980-82) has the viscous couple as the later 229 etc does. The 219 doesn't have the '2WD only' function of the 229 though.

[Narnian]

Ya know, there is a good chance I got it bassAckwards (although this doesn't change the answer to the original post) but I can never seem to find any good info on the NP 219. The author of this website :http://www.cfsja.org/trails/4wd.html seems to think that the BW1339 uses the visc, and the 219 uses cones. I know that at least the cones are reversed (NP219 = no cones)

From what I've read a viscous coupling requires a special silicon fluid in a little drum with fins that stir the fluid up when the driveshafts turn at different speeds. When I spoke to the techie guy at Jeep 101, he told me my transfer case used regular 10W motor oil. He also threw in the words "clutchpack" but now I don't remember if he was referring to my Quadra-track or the current Quadra-track II. Is the drum with the silicon fluid sealed so tight it never leaks? And is the motor oil used to lubricate everything else?

Does anyone have REALLY good information on the NP219?

Perhaps we need to start another thread. I have a tiny exploded drawing of the 219 but nothing is labeled.

[joe]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Does anyone have REALLY good information on the NP219?[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The 1980-82 factory TSM's do smile.gif
I've got the 80 and 82 TSMs, email me with any specific questions ya have and I'll do what I can.

So far as the 219 goes though it uses ATF (Dexron II,III) juice not motor oil and "it's" viscous coupler is filled with a silicone fluid but it's a sealed unit and doesn't mix with the ATF.
The old BW/QT(clutch packs are lubed by the x-case lube...hence the required special QT sauce with the LSD modifier in it...or 30W non-detergent motor oil w/8oz of LSD concentrate added.
Not criticising ya Narnian...ya just got some bad(backwards)info from the Jeep 101 dude. It happens...&lt;shrug&gt; smile.gif

[Breech]

Hey Hopeful,
I don't know if you've bought that wagoneer yet, but I wanted to let you know that I rolled the dice on my 78 Cherokee Chief and it's just fine. I bought it with the front drive axle removed and have had no problems with that portion of the vehicle. The previous owner was a friend of a friend of mine and I asked him why it wasn't on there. He pulled it because of bad u-joints and he didn't want to take the time to replace them. This was just an extra vehicle to him. Not saying that you can trust everyone you buy a car from, but there is always the chance that they are being honest. So I would inquire about that. Also, test driving the rig before hand could tell you a lot. I am currently running mine without the front drive axle, seems to do better on gas that way, but I am going to put it back on shortly. Hasn't caused any problems thus far. Good luck. smile.gif

[Narnian]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by -joe:

The 1980-82 factory TSM's do smile.gif
I've got the 80 and 82 TSMs, email me with any specific questions ya have and I'll do what I can.

So far as the 219 goes though it uses ATF (Dexron II,III) juice not motor oil and "it's" viscous coupler is filled with a silicone fluid but it's a sealed unit and doesn't mix with the ATF.
The old BW/QT(clutch packs are lubed by the x-case lube...hence the required special QT sauce with the LSD modifier in it...or 30W non-detergent motor oil w/8oz of LSD concentrate added.
Not criticising ya Narnian...ya just got some bad(backwards)info from the Jeep 101 dude. It happens...&lt;shrug&gt; smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'm sorry, he did say ATF. But your description and an hour of web searching clears a few things up. I haven't found any web info on the NP219 that is accurate, but I did find this description of the Viscous coupling : http://www.homestead.com/therangerstation/TransferCases.html

The viscous coupling is in a sealed drum, which I assume is meant to never leak or need refilling. The rest of the Tcase is pretty much like any ordinary Tcase, so it just needs the ATF like you described.

I would like to have a copy of the TSM pages that cover the NP219. I don't think the TSM's are available anymore (have we covered this in another post already?), but it might be nice to get those pages copied or scanned or something.

[Narnian]

Actually, my 81 owners manual (the one document that DID come with the Jeep) says to use the 10W30 in the 219. I know someone told me to use ATF.

I think I remember this coming up in a discussion several months ago. Does the 80 TSM say 10W30 and the 82 TSM say ATF?

[joe]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Narnian:
[QBThe viscous coupling is in a sealed drum, which I assume is meant to never leak or need refilling. The rest of the Tcase is pretty much like any ordinary Tcase, so it just needs the ATF like you described.[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, it is a sealed unit and can't be refilled.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
I would like to have a copy of the TSM pages that cover the NP219. I don't think the TSM's are available anymore (have we covered this in another post already?), but it might be nice to get those pages copied or scanned or something. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I would look around on ebay. The TSM's show up there occasionally.
I'd sure be willing to look up any info ya might need but to be honest I don't foresee me taking time to scan and edit 16 pages anytime soon.

[joe]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Narnian:
Does the 80 TSM say 10W30 and the 82 TSM say ATF?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point. The 80 does say motor oil. I don't know if that was an AMC snafu or a manufacturers oddity because the early 80's TSM's also say use motor oil in the NP208's and also the T-5 trannies and both use ATF not motor oil in later TSM's. Since these are built by different manufacturers I'm guessing it was an AMC glitch?

[joe]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by -joe:


early 80's TSM's also say use motor oil in the NP208's and also the T-5 trannies <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Let me corret the 'T-5' part. The 81 TSM calls for gear lube in the T-5 where in 82 and up it calls for ATF. Tried gear lube in a T-5 once. It's like trying to stir wet cement with a rubber hose :(

[Narnian]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by -joe:
. . . but to be honest I don't foresee me taking time to scan and edit 16 pages anytime soon.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can certainly appreciate that. It took me five months to remove a radio from a vehicle parked in my yard for someone on this board.

I'll keep my eyes on ebay for a copy. I found a number at Chrysler to call that might have them too. If they still have them I'll post the number.

[Bob N]

I picked up an NP208 at a junkyard for the Waggie out of a Cherokee with no front driveshaft....Turned out the 4wd shift fork was worn completely out, hence no 4wd and no need for a driveshaft...The $150 lesson - check everything out before buying! :mad: