Waggy axle non FSJ ap help?

[jeepdreamer]

Hey Guys I need a little advice/help trying to think through this ahead of wrenching.
I bought a narrowed Dana 44 waggy axle off Gutter on here and it is going to go under my CJ8 Scrambler when I get home. In an effort to keep the downtime to a minimum (wrenching and waiting on parts) I'm tring to bench race all the things I will encounter with this and really REALLY could use some more eyes on target. Here is the set up
NT Waggy 44 narrowed to 61"s WMS to WMS.
SOA perches installed for YJ width springs in a CJ frame (non out boarded)
Currently has 5 on 5 1/2 bolt pattern knuckles out?
From the pic it looks like the drag link was flipped to go over the spring while the other (knuckle to knuckle) remains under..
So with that and the pic I'll try and load...can anyone offer advice on needs to get to here?
I'm gonna have to make my front springs go away and be replaced with flat YJ ones up front. To do that I either need to replace the perches or use shackles (like RE's) that will accomodate YJ springs on a CJ.
What U bolts/Plates etc do people use for SOA on FSJs when they do it? I'm pretty sure they are 2.5" springs too, right? Do you just use the FSJ stuff and flip it over on top or is there an issue or better way to do this?
The other thing I'm banging my head against is the wheel pattern. The rear axle is going to be a waggy AMC20. I found a great deal on a Detroit/4.10 gears to match so I'm kinda locked into that. So if the front is alread "hy steer-ish?" but 5 on 5 1/2, which would be easier. Change the rear to matching bolt pattern (new axles? how is that done?) or swap the front over to 6 lug? I have a 77 (flat top) donor axle to rob for parts but I'm not sure what all is involved. How the axle was narrowed has something to do with this I think.?. And which would be less costly money wise? Time wise? Could the 6 lug hubs be used (spindle out) on the 5 lug knuckles?
Just for a little added info, this jeep is going to Germany with me for the next several years. I have to get it to pass the German inspection so I am very limited on height and width. So in an effort to stay legal I can't really go any wider (ie wheel adaptors) and I'd hate to run two different wheel patterns on the same jeep.
So please!!! Anyone with some insight or ideas...send them at me! etting closer to coming home which means the build will be fast and furious...Help!

and sorry...the second pic was sent me but it is a rear obviously...lol

[paul88]

I would suggest you to consult a good mechanic.he'll be able to guide you properly.

[jeepdreamer]

I would suggest you to consult a good mechanic.he'll be
able to guide you properly.

uh, thanks....let me try and clarify this...since I'm not getting much input.
How about anyone that has gone SOA on a Narrow Trac axle shoot me some pics of it installed in their Jeep? I've been doing the search thing and even on BJs and Tads site the pictures are vague. I'd like to see what the installed kit looks like and get an idea of what Ubolts and plates they used.

[Josh D]

uh, thanks....let me try and clarify this...since I'm not getting much input.
How about anyone that has gone SOA on a Narrow Trac axle shoot me some pics of it installed in their Jeep? I've been doing the search thing and even on BJs and Tads site the pictures are vague. I'd like to see what the installed kit looks like and get an idea of what Ubolts and plates they used.

Drop me a pm with your e-mail. I have a whole zip file of pics from my YJ install that might be of some use.

[timmy401]

... has a trick R side knukle for spring over. It's not too badly priced either. Good Luck.

[billyj7175]

Where at in Germany?

Just to info you...their vehicle inspection standards are EXTREMELY critical. There is a reason you don't see many old cars on the road over there. Case in point, my girlfriend drives a Liberty that she bought new through AAFES car sales at Ramstein AB. Keep in mind, she was only there for three years...and failed her last inspection (outbound) inspection for:

They said the transfercase seal was leaking (barely...wouldn't spot on the ground, but leaked enough to slightly dampen the output on the TC)...seriously, I was blown away that they failed it for it...but it gets better...

Rear rotors. Not that they were shot, but since she didn't drive it all that much, the rear rotors would rust up and not clean completely off. Here's bomb #3...they don't turn rotors over there...called 4 different shops and nobody had any equipment to do it...even the Spangdahlem AB auto-hobby shop. I guess europeans just buy new rotors when needed. So...where do you get 2 rotors for a Jeep Liberty when you don't have time to have them shipped from the US? The local dealer...she paid 75 euro a piece for new rotors and 30 I think for the pads...you can do the math.

Anyway, long story-short, I got her up and running and she passed her inspection with no drama.

GOOD LUCK!

[jeepdreamer]

I'm headed towards Graff. Yeah, the Europeans have some strange laws and can be a true pain. And like anywhere else it all depends on who is doing your inspection and if they are having a bad day or not.:( Mine being older than 25 years I get a little slack on some issues but in general most the same rules apply. From my understanding (and NO, it makes no sense) vehicles purchased there are harder to bring back stateside than if you are returning with the same one you brought. Even though it is an American vehicle to start out with!?! Go finger...
But I am just going to work with in the system. There are things I do have to be very careful of. Too much lift raises eyebrows. Tires that stick out even the tiniest bit are a NoGo...So I appreciate the input...i'm tracking it. Just gonna hope for the best and plan for the worst. That is part of why I am building it here, then bringing it. Trying to remove the weakest links while access to parts is not a killer.

[jeeping1974]

For your bolt pattern issue, why not just get an adaptor to convert one pattern to the other?

Or you could find someone on here (or ebay or craiglist) who has a set of chevy/FSJ flat top knuckles, spindles and hubs. You can have the flat tops machines, go full high steer, and you'll have 6 on 5.5 bolt pattern front to match the rear. By going high steer, it will raise the steering up to keep it from being hit on rocks.

[JoshF]

What knuckles are used on the front? If jeep or chevrolet you can just bolt on fsj rotors and hubs to get 6 bolt pattern on the front. At the worst you will have to swap knuckles and spindles.

[Casey]

One of my old Scramblers had a narrowed w/t FSJ axle to keep the track width similar to that of a w/t CJ. I had the long side cut 5" and the shaft cut and re-splined. It had flat tops M-D&Td w/ high steer.
It was a bit wider in fact than a late CJ D30 and IIRC still wider than an FSJ n/t. It also had a later model GW D44 out back with the perches in the stock CJ location, SOA. Both axles had 6 on 5.5 of course. I used CJ springs and made my own spring plates.

:o Sorry, but I owned that rig before I was interested in taking pictures.

Many conversion D44 front axles for CJs use the CJ outers. Like Currie. 4Will has a Currie built ScoutII D44 front that used to have CJ outers. Also running a Scout II rear D44.
He has since swapped to f.o.r.d. outers with an internal hub instead of the crappy external ones that came stock on CJs. The f.o.r.d. outers are 5 on 5.5 like a CJ or Scout.

Since you're running an FSJ rear axle with 6 on 5.5; you could simply swap FSJ flat tops and outers to match the bolt pattern and do high steer like any other FSJ application. For my Chief's SOA I used the stock spring plates.

[jeepdreamer]

Thanks guys...Casey..Yeah, thats kind of what I'm thinking. I have the 77 waggy 44 to use as a "donor" for knuckles,spindles,whatever...I'm just not sure yet as to how the axle thats going in was made 5 lug? I'd like to keep it all 6 lug and no spacers/adaptors (can't afford the extra width). The only hard part is figuring what works and what doesn't. I know a LOT of dana 44s share the same ball joint numbers so it leads one to believe they are pretty interchangable..I hope. I think I'm leaning towards pulling the 5 lug stuff off and test fitting the 6 lug to make sure it all works. If it does I will send the knuckles off to be drilled or whatever...
Anyone have a suggestion as to where is best/cheapest and what I should expect to see cost wise? Wondering what would be less expensive..the BJs pass side knuckle deal or hy-steer arms with the machining and what ever...?

[Casey]

Thanks guys...Casey..Yeah, thats kind of what I'm thinking. I have the 77 waggy 44 to use as a "donor" for knuckles,spindles,whatever...I'm just not sure yet as to how the axle thats going in was made 5 lug? I'd like to keep it all 6 lug and no spacers/adaptors (can't afford the extra width). The only hard part is figuring what works and what doesn't. I know a LOT of dana 44s share the same ball joint numbers so it leads one to believe they are pretty interchangable..I hope. I think I'm leaning towards pulling the 5 lug stuff off and test fitting the 6 lug to make sure it all works. If it does I will send the knuckles off to be drilled or whatever...
Anyone have a suggestion as to where is best/cheapest and what I should expect to see cost wise? Wondering what would be less expensive..the BJs pass side knuckle deal or hy-steer arms with the machining and what ever...?

Do you have pics? My guess is that it has the CJ knuckles and outers on it. Using the knuckles and outers from a donor FSJ should be a complete bolt on afair with zero issues.

The last time I did SOA/HS I used Parts Mike to have the knuckles M-D&Td, and got all my HS parts from them as well. He ships in USPS flate rate boxes to save on shipping. ;)

http://www.partsmike.com/store/store.php?crn=204


Look through this thread and you'll likely find other sources listed:

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=58435

[jeepdreamer]

Casey,
I think the CJ knuckles out is what was done. No idea what they did for an axle shaft but I'm told it is 61"s WMS to WMS. Most of the jeeps I have done have been well within the range of a DPA to fix steering angles so to be honest I feel a little green dealing with Hy-Steer? I've read a good deal on it and it still seems a little intimidating? Guess that is the proper context of the word? Untested waters for me.
So how does Parts Mike work? I ship him my waggy 77 flat top knuckles and he machines them and sends them back? Is he the best bang for the buck (good but not overpriced) for the rest of what is needed? The arms, studs, whatever? How does he know where stuff gets drilled? I'd like to just unbox it and bolt it on. What kind of prices do most folks see when doing this? Send me whatever intel you can...and thanks!

[Stuka]

Wait a second here, if it IS an axle from a wagoneer, and it is 61", its NOT narrowed. Especially since they measure 60.5" in stock form. Now if it was from a wide track, then its possible it was narrowed, although it seems like a waste to be narrowed down to NT width.

Oh, and parts mike does good work. I have not had anything done by him personally, but have seen work that he has done.

[Casey]

Casey,
I think the CJ knuckles out is what was done. No idea what they did for an axle shaft but I'm told it is 61"s WMS to WMS. Most of the jeeps I have done have been well within the range of a DPA to fix steering angles so to be honest I feel a little green dealing with Hy-Steer? I've read a good deal on it and it still seems a little intimidating? Guess that is the proper context of the word? Untested waters for me.
So how does Parts Mike work? I ship him my waggy 77 flat top knuckles and he machines them and sends them back? Is he the best bang for the buck (good but not overpriced) for the rest of what is needed? The arms, studs, whatever? How does he know where stuff gets drilled? I'd like to just unbox it and bolt it on. What kind of prices do most folks see when doing this? Send me whatever intel you can...and thanks!
PMP is top notch. They've done countless M-D&T jobs. Not the cheapest, not the most costly, but definately quality worth the price. I got EVERYTHING from them to do my knuckles. If you send them your stripped down knuckles...take out the ball joints and spindle studs and send them bare in a USPS flat rate box. If you buy any ball joints/spindle studs etc... they'll install them in the knuckles for free and return them in a USPS FR box.

Read through that archived steering solutions thread and you'll learn plenty. For SOA HS makes a big difference as compared to a DPA. Everything is up and out of the way, no bump steer... It's worth every penny IMHO.