newbie from Peoria, AZ

[joescarshack]

I just picked up my first jeep a couple weeks ago:fsj:. I got a 1970 J2500 thats been upgraded. It has the factory 350 buick with turbo 400 and dana 20, but it has a disc brake dana 44 from a 78 dodge military 3/4 ton in front and a full floater 14 bolt in the back 4.10 gears, 38" TSL's, im not sure how much lift. I had to completely redo the fuel system and cooling system, but I am just a couple days away from having it drivable. Like I said I'm new to jeeps so it would be nice to lurk around here and learn some stuff from you guys. Thanks for havin me:thumbsup:

I also attached a pic of my sunk isuzu trooper. That was the day I decided to buy a jeep. You can see all my buddies in the pic already have jeeps. But I guess it was my own fault, my troop was only 2wd. I felt I had somethin to prove, but instead the opposite happened,:banghead: lol..

[vintagetrks]

Cool lokkin J truck ya got there. Welcome from Paulden Az :thumbsup:

[Locked and Loaded]

Welcome to the sight. Nice truck. I heard you were doing neutral drops with it the other night.

[Josh D]

Welcome from the southeast valley. Nice to see another early J-truck running around!:thumbsup:

[jaber]

Welcome to the land of empty pockets and unfinished projects....:D

What part of Peoria? My mom is around 103rd and Peoria...

Looks like you found a nice one to start with, congrats...:thumbsup:

[joescarshack]

Heres some more recent pics i took of the J today. I need to rebuild the door hinge pins, thats why the doors are off. But I got the new aluminum 98' cherokee radiator installed with a flex a lite black majic extreme electric fan. She runs cool now at 180 and is ready to hit the road :thumbsup:

[joescarshack]

Welcome to the land of empty pockets and unfinished projects....:D

What part of Peoria? My mom is around 103rd and Peoria...

Looks like you found a nice one to start with, congrats...:thumbsup:

Im at 69th ave and bell, but my shop is on 80th ave and peoria.
Yea I just had to button up all the anoying little loose ends mostly. Other than upgrading the radiator all the major work was done.

[Tad]

...im not sure how much lift.:

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/jcs1.jpg

It's sort of hard to tell from those pic's but I'd venture to say based on what looks like an SOA'd front axle, a possible front shackle reversal and the lift blocks up front you are between 10-12" of lift.

[skinnyD]

Welcome from Maine! Alot of great info/folks on this site. Put us to good use. Thanks for the pics, looks like a good one you got there.

[joescarshack]

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/jcs1.jpg

It's sort of hard to tell from those pic's but I'd venture to say based on what looks like an SOA'd front axle, a possible front shackle reversal and the lift blocks up front you are between 10-12" of lift.

Yea thats exactly what the previous owner told me was 10-12" lift.

[joescarshack]

I was talking with my pops(we are both fabricators, he taught me all i know) and we were thinking of maybe converting the front to a long travel coil spring setup. Like using the front coil springs from a twin I-beam ford of something like that. Has anyone done that? Any advise, or pro's and con's? The leaf springs seem to shift side to side alot and are old and need updating anyways. Plus I would like to do away with the lift blocks, and also get my steering arm and drag link parallel. Should I move this discussion to the tech area of the site?

[joescarshack]

ok I already found lots of tech info here on the site about the coil spring setup. Lots of work and parts money. Will have to save for a while. LOL

[Tad]

You'll get better help in the "Tech" or "Off-Road" sections.
The lift blocks up front defiantly should go away and running heim joints is not usually preferred unless it's a trail rig only.
I'm not sure what that Dodge axle has for steering knuckles or if cross-over/high-steering is even an option for those.

[Josh D]

I'm not sure what that Dodge axle has for steering knuckles or if cross-over/high-steering is even an option for those.

Dodge D44's have flat top knuckles on both ends. Driver side is already drilled and tapped.

[joescarshack]

yea it already has a 1" thick billet high steer arm on top of the passengers side nuckle. But the steering tie rod is bolted to the bottom side of the arm because it would hit the leaf spring if bolted on top of the arm. This stuff is new to me, should the drag link be connected on top of both knuckles and then the steering tie rod on top of the passengers drag link connection? If thats the case, I need a high steer arm for the drivers side still and probably have to get some spring with more arch to get rid of the blocks and allow the steering tie rod to clear the passengers spring. Anybody got a spare high steer arm for the drivers side? I would deffinately like to get this front end setup like it should be and not cobbed up like it is now.:o

[azpackrat]

Welcome frome the West side.
With the drag link attached top down to the steering arm, and the tie rod top down on both sides in the original position you have cross-over steering. If you add a high steer arm to the drivers side and move the tie rod up you have high-steer, both work fine if set-up correctly and one or the other is necessary for a safe and functional spring over axle. The advantage of the high-steer is more clearance for the tie rod, cross-over is less expensive. Sorry I need to clarify, when I said top down on the tie rod and drag link, That's according to the taper on the knuckles, some vehicles like the CJ's use a bottom-up orientation.
As you've already noticed with the blocks you won't be able to use either type of steering. Getting a set of 4" or 6" springs and eliminating the blocks, then orienting the drag link properly would probably eliminate most of your front end problems. When or if you order springs make sure the pack is not too thick so as to interfere with your drag link, remember it will go above the spring.
While I'm at it might I make another suggestion, I once owned a 78' Dodge and even though it was a half ton 4x4 it used the same knuckles and outers as yours and they're a major pain. To begin with there is no provision for selectable hubs, not a problem for many but with your truck lifted that high if the Inner C's have not been cut and rotated you might have Castor problems. The Castor can be adjusted with shims, but that might lead to a bad drive-line angle (Murphy in action). The drive line might not be too critical off-road at low speeds but on road at highway speeds will probably cause vibration and U-joint failure. The simplest fix until you can modify the axle is to unlock the hubs.
The next issue with these hubs is the wheel bearings, they are pressed-on and back to back or Siamese. The only way to remove or install is with a press, so if you're wheeling and they fail, you have to tear down, transport to a shop for repair, return and reinstall. As far as being back to back, I'm thinking less lateral load bearing and with large meat's like yours, I'd guess a lower life expectancy. They do grease easy though just pull the wheel, line up the hole on the mounting plate with the Zerk on the hub housing and pump until the grease pushes out of the inner seal.
Anyway my suggestion would be to source knuckles and outers from a GM or J-20 and remove those abominations, you'll have to get a passenger side flat top knuckle and mill and drill it for your steering arm but it's worth it.

[azpackrat]

One more point of clarification, the drag link connects from the Pittman arm to the knuckle and the tie rod from knuckle to knuckle. After re-reading your last post I think you had them mixed-up. Also the general idea with which your steering is connected is correct, just needs to be tweaked once the suspension is corrected.

[joescarshack]

Welcome frome the West side.
With the drag link attached top down to the steering arm, and the tie rod top down on both sides in the original position you have cross-over steering. If you add a high steer arm to the drivers side and move the tie rod up you have high-steer, both work fine if set-up correctly and one or the other is necessary for a safe and functional spring over axle. The advantage of the high-steer is more clearance for the tie rod, cross-over is less expensive. Sorry I need to clarify, when I said top down on the tie rod and drag link, That's according to the taper on the knuckles, some vehicles like the CJ's use a bottom-up orientation.
As you've already noticed with the blocks you won't be able to use either type of steering. Getting a set of 4" or 6" springs and eliminating the blocks, then orienting the drag link properly would probably eliminate most of your front end problems. When or if you order springs make sure the pack is not too thick so as to interfere with your drag link, remember it will go above the spring.
While I'm at it might I make another suggestion, I once owned a 78' Dodge and even though it was a half ton 4x4 it used the same knuckles and outers as yours and they're a major pain. To begin with there is no provision for selectable hubs, not a problem for many but with your truck lifted that high if the Inner C's have not been cut and rotated you might have Castor problems. The Castor can be adjusted with shims, but that might lead to a bad drive-line angle (Murphy in action). The drive line might not be too critical off-road at low speeds but on road at highway speeds will probably cause vibration and U-joint failure. The simplest fix until you can modify the axle is to unlock the hubs.
The next issue with these hubs is the wheel bearings, they are pressed-on and back to back or Siamese. The only way to remove or install is with a press, so if you're wheeling and they fail, you have to tear down, transport to a shop for repair, return and reinstall. As far as being back to back, I'm thinking less lateral load bearing and with large meat's like yours, I'd guess a lower life expectancy. They do grease easy though just pull the wheel, line up the hole on the mounting plate with the Zerk on the hub housing and pump until the grease pushes out of the inner seal.
Anyway my suggestion would be to source knuckles and outers from a GM or J-20 and remove those abominations, you'll have to get a passenger side flat top knuckle and mill and drill it for your steering arm but it's worth it.

Wow, thats a whole lot of info about parts that i really dont know anything about yet. I am still learning about 4x4's. I am sure your advise is sound, but I am on a tight budget, (cruddy job and a 1 year old baby), So I am only looking for a basic fix at the moment. The turning radius sucks really bad in its current form, so I need to get it figured out. My dad has built many streetrod chassis, but also doesnt know much about the 4x4's, but we have a basic understanding, just no parts knowledge.

[joescarshack]

One more point of clarification, the drag link connects from the Pittman arm to the knuckle and the tie rod from knuckle to knuckle. After re-reading your last post I think you had them mixed-up. Also the general idea with which your steering is connected is correct, just needs to be tweaked once the suspension is corrected.
Yea I was mixed up. :o thanks. I am going to go have my front springs redone 4" taller since the blocks were only 3". I think that will get me fixed up. Then I just need a good heavy duty tie rod and the drivers side high steer arm. The passengers side one I have is from ballistic fabrication in Tucson, AZ. If anyone has a spare drivers side, please stand up:D

[azpackrat]

I would advise against re-arching to gain height. When they make a lift spring the main leaf is longer than the OEM main to compensate for the additional arch. Re-arching a spring to add 4"s lift would have the overall affect of shortening the spring probably to the point were it will be a very difficult install and will definitely give you a bad shackle angle. Also the last time I looked into a Re-arch it was as costly as replacement springs. Check with BJ's offroad or Hell Creek and see how much for a new set of front's.

[joescarshack]

I would advise against re-arching to gain height. When they make a lift spring the main leaf is longer than the OEM main to compensate for the additional arch. Re-arching a spring to add 4"s lift would have the overall affect of shortening the spring probably to the point were it will be a very difficult install and will definitely give you a bad shackle angle. Also the last time I looked into a Re-arch it was as costly as replacement springs. Check with BJ's offroad or Hell Creek and see how much for a new set of front's.

Oh no, I am completely aware of that, When I say re-arch I mean basically replace the main leaf with a longer one with more arch and then re-arch the rest of the leafs. There is a shop in town that I deal with (glendale spring) that can do this fairly cheap. I have actually had them make me a whole new set of springs for an old mercury cyclone before and they only charged $280. I will probably just go to them and show them what I have and ask for 4" more lift. They will get the job done.

[azpackrat]

:thumbsup:

[joescarshack]

I spoke with glendale spring today. they said about $250 for both front springs to make new main leafs with 4" lift and re-arch the rest and rebuild to look like new. I can deal with that. no shipping charges either :)

[will e]

Welcome from Mesa!

Yeah, get rid of those blocks up front. Lots of folks argue about blocks in the back but most everyone agrees on no blocks up front.

Another option would be to go with slightly smaller tires. Looks like the ones on the truck have a lot of thread on them. High center of gravity isn't always the best situation for wheeln' in AZ.

[joescarshack]

Welcome from Mesa!

Yeah, get rid of those blocks up front. Lots of folks argue about blocks in the back but most everyone agrees on no blocks up front.

Another option would be to go with slightly smaller tires. Looks like the ones on the truck have a lot of thread on them. High center of gravity isn't always the best situation for wheeln' in AZ.

Yea I know she's a little big for some trails, but I still like it. As far as the front blocks, I would love to get rid of them but I am super strapped for cash and I am probably gonna have to make due with them for a while untill I can get all the right stuff unfortunately.