Should I use the one tons I have or not?

[fireman91186]

I know this question isn't the same for everybody but I do want opinions on it.

I was able to do a little wheeling this last weekend and had a lot of fun but a question now comes to my mind. My dilemma is that I have a Dana 60 and 14 bolt sitting on the side of my house and I am questioning what to do with them.
My original plan was to put them under the jeep but I just don't know if I will ever need axles that big. My goal is to get up to 35" tires ( 33's now) but I do need lockers and more lift. Should I sell the one tons and get the 44's set up with lockers lower gears and axle shafts or should I do the axle swap and later when I can afford it change the gears and put lockers in the one tons and use them.

[Chief Gunner]

You should send the 1 tons to me. I promise to give them a good home.:)

[COLOFIREMAN]

You should send the 1 tons to me. I promise to give them a good home.:)


:rolleyes: That was my line....:p :D

[fireman91186]

You should send the 1 tons to me. I promise to give them a good home.:)


For the right price I would. :D

[68glad]

Are the gear ratio's the same? If the one tons are lower go with them. You'll appreciate it when you get some bigger meats.

[Wayne]

Use the 1 tons, sell the 44s and put the money into lockers or
a lift.

[Dr.E]

Another option would be to put the 14bolt in the rear with a locker you will fund by selling the front D60 ( the axle of greatest value). If you want you can upgrade your front to a D44HD. Maybe trade the D60 to somebody that has a HD44 with an ARB or other selectable option.(Carry a spare set of easy to buy D44 axles)
The crew I wheel with find D60 axles as scarce as hens teeth, so a technique that is often used is when we need to full throttle over obstacles we use 2wd with the bomb proof 14bolt/detroit locker combo then when we can back off the skinny pedal, switch back to 4wd and proceed. "Most" of the time when I need to get crazy with the HP I find I'm trying to climb a ledge and my front diff is not helping that much anyway, due to the weight transfer to the rear.
As an interesting side note I have found that I can climb most of the same obstacles that the light weight hardcore buggies can (with similar tire and engine combo) BECAUSE of the FSJ weight and I only use 2WD (14bolt/detroit).
What I'm saying is that there are "techniques" to avoid the NEED for the front D60 unless you are heavy on the right foot or drive some gnarly trails.
When you start adding 35 spline outer stub axles, ARB, flanges etc... or just rebuilding the D60 you will have big $ into that axle if you want it to function on the highways as well as off-road then even more $. (on a dedicated trail rig ideal caster is not always as important, so sometimes you can get away without cut and turning the outer C's depending on amount of lift etc.) Talk to those who wheel the trails you enjoy and inquire if the consensus is go big or go home then build the D60, if not stick to the vision
of your purpose built rig.
MY.02
Any of you guys running D44HD/14bolts have similar experiences with driving finesse/techniques to avoid the need for D60 front axles?

[fireman91186]

The trails around here aren't to extreme and I don't really have a heavy right foot. At least most of the time.
The problems with the one tons is that they are 3.73's so they are not much different then the 44's under it right now. so no matter what I do I will have to change gears.

But if I sell the one ton's then I would have money to pay for the gears and locker for the rear at least of I do all of the work my self.
My other dilemma is what to do about fitting 35's. If I go with the one tons that is easy as it will be spring over and will fit them easily. But if I stick to 44's with the 4" lift then I will have to do something different. I was thinking about adding a 2" body lift with the 4" springs. Anybody out there have that setup and if so how well does it work?

[cocurtiss]

Do a spring over up front with the 3/4 tons and do a shackle flip in the back and sell the tons like you said for gears and lockers and maybe even some chromoly shafts.

Like you said with the trails and your light foot you should be fine with 35's. If you plan on going bigger than 36's I would use the 1 tons.

I do like what was said earlier with using the 14 bolt in the rear.. You wouldn't make that much off of that axle anyways.

[fireman91186]

Do a spring over up front with the 3/4 tons and do a shackle flip in the back and sell the tons like you said for gears and lockers and maybe even some chromoly shafts.

Like you said with the trails and your light foot you should be fine with 35's. If you plan on going bigger than 36's I would use the 1 tons.

I do like what was said earlier with using the 14 bolt in the rear.. You wouldn't make that much off of that axle anyways.

I am trying to stay away from the spring over right now because of cost.
If I do a spring over I will just do it with the one tons and be done with it. If I sell the axles then I don't think I would have enough cash to do a spring over, gears and a locker.

[thing2]

my bro has a 4 inch with 2 inch body an runs 37's( with cutting of course) seems to work out very well for him

[fireman91186]

my bro has a 4 inch with 2 inch body an runs 37's( with cutting of course) seems to work out very well for him
Ya I would like to keep to 35's especially if I keep the 44's.

[jeeping1974]

The D44s will handle the 35s that you want to run, not to mention that you will have more ground clearance under the D44 with 35s than you would with D60/14B.

Gears, lockers, install kits are all going to cost you the same no matter which way you go. I say sell the 1 tons, get some gears and a lift, run a set of 35s and then upgrade the shafts and lockers when you get some more money.

[bill3]

The D44s will handle the 35s that you want to run, not to mention that you will have more ground clearance under the D44 with 35s than you would with D60/14B.

Gears, lockers, install kits are all going to cost you the same no matter which way you go. I say sell the 1 tons, get some gears and a lift, run a set of 35s and then upgrade the shafts and lockers when you get some more money.

x2
I'm running a open 44 in front and a 10 bolt with a locker in the back an 3.73's. I agree with Dr.E it has alot to do with driver finess. I've done some pretty hard core stuff and have no problems with my set up. I wheel with some guys who run hard core buggies. I fallowed them every where they go. Just had to take alittle slower then them and maybe aproch differnt. And when we were done I drove home.

[AlsChopShop]

the 3/4 ton idea from Dr E is really a good one.

a D60 up front with 35's is really overkill. if you don't have anything in it, obviously no harm in using it. but if you can sell it to finance some sweet upgrades (lockers and such) then you'd really have a good plan.

Al

[3nellieb]

The D44s will handle the 35s that you want to run, not to mention that you will have more ground clearance under the D44 with 35s than you would with D60/14B.

Gears, lockers, install kits are all going to cost you the same no matter which way you go. I say sell the 1 tons, get some gears and a lift, run a set of 35s and then upgrade the shafts and lockers when you get some more money.


X2 on this.sound like you could go to the upgraded shafts in the future if needing the extra grunt.

my bro has a 4 inch with 2 inch body an runs 37's( with cutting of course) seems to work out very well for him

this is me, i have 4:27 gears lock right and manual hubs in front and spool in rear. i will just upgrade the shafts when i get the money.

[fireman91186]

Thats a good point about the upgraded shafts. That is kinda my plan I think for now.

Anyone know of a good brand of axle shafts to upgrade to and which one's do you think I should first the front or rears?

[duncanstives]

If your SURE you will never want to go bigger than 35s stick with the D44s... You can always get those crazy shafts with the sealed CV joints and after market knuckles to get your d44 up to AT LEAST stock 60 strength.

I would not recommend putting in a 14 bolt and keeping the stock front because you will need two spare since you will have a 6 lug and an 8 lug.

I have a d44 hd front and 14 bolt rear and the "trick" I use to prevent breaking frontshafts is (apparently) to have weak driveshafts... I have broken both of them! That and 33in tires... I am planning to get some 37s on double beadlocks soon... Might have to upgrade my shafts when I do.

[jeeping1974]

Talk to RPMRacers on pirate4x4.com. They have some of the best prices around.

[Elliott]

Just spend the $$ to put the tons in. You are going to need at least 4" of lift for the 35's anyway so 2 more is no biggy. You can keep your stock springs which will flex better than lift springs and eliminate the need for a body lift. Better to be closer to bullet proof then near busted IMO. It's taken me longer and cost me more to build HD but I can honestly say I have never broken down on a trail yet... ;)

[fireman91186]

I already have a 4" lift on it now and 33's. i just cant spend a fortune right now to do the one tons so I was going to sell them and build the 44's. I don't think I will ever want to run much bigger then 35's any way and if i do there will be a lot of changes not just the axles.

[Blake]

FWIW - I ran the stock D44's f/r on my '78 j10 on 39.5" tsl's for several months and only broke one front shaft. That was on a big hill climb at the dunes at full throttle. Both axles were locked.

I then moved up to tons and never looked back.

It doesn't hurt to have a little more beef than you need....

[fireman91186]

I am just curious though how much beef do I need for 35's though? If the 44's will work then with the money I can got from selling the 1 tons then I am thinking I might be able to beef them up enough to handle the abuse.


If I do sell them what do you guys think I should do to the axles? My plans are to run 35's as already stated.

[Elliott]

It looks like you have them pretty fairly priced in the for sale section.

[shadowjeep]

the only problem i see is, i had the same mentality of everything your saying about the one tons. it all depends on the type of wheeling your doing and plan on doing. you really have to be honest with yourself. you have some killer axles waiting on the side, if you ever decide on going bigger it will cost even more in the long run to get that combo axle set back. it may even cost more than you sell them for. i was dead set on going to one tons and 38's from my D44 and 33" combo and jumped to 2.5tons and 46's once i realized what i wanted to wheel.

[fireman91186]

It looks like you have them pretty fairly priced in the for sale section.


Ya I put them up there just to see if anyone would be interested. I thought that was a decent price overall. Ive seen them around my area go for as high as $1500.

[orangecherokee]

I'd go tons. I have and I've never worried again. that's good peace of mind when the going gets tough. you keep saying 35s like that's the end. you never know what kind of deal you'll be running into down the road. I'd rather have the beef there to support what I'll throw at it next then to have to figure out how to make it work with less.

[Jakemd98]

I can honestly tell you that it seriously sucks to get stuck on something because your diffs are draggin. I have a Waggy 44 and an explorer 8.8 in my TJ, i was rollin on 33's and got stuck all the time because my diffs were draggin on everything. If you put tons and 35's on your jeep you will have the same issue.

I am running 35's and 4.88 gears on my TJ, and i don't take it easy on her either. Granted i don't have the power of a V8, but with the gearing i can spin the tires when they don't want to be spun. The waggy 44 is plenty strong for 35's, if you break it then put some chromollies in it.

The only way i would say go tons is if you are going larger than 36's. While i agree with build it strong so it wont break, the tons aren't worth getting stuck every time you follow someone with 35's and 44's making ruts.

So basically i say get gears lockers and keep the 44's. OR shave the 14 bolt and run the tons, but with more clearance. :thumbsup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qihWTqyCpww

Here's a vid of what i was referring to. This is in gulches, i got stuck on my diffs at the end.

[cable97526]

In all the TJ's we have around here running 35" tires, we turn D44's into metallic paint :eek: My 03 Rubicon blew up three center sections, and 4 shafts with the stock D44 running 35" Toyo's, It now has a nine inch that has split the carrier TWICE and am now wishing I would have just gone 14bolt D60 and said screw it, especially now that I have spent SO MUCH on the 9" that I could have built a very nice 60.

[Jakemd98]

i'm sorry but a Rubicon 44 is not as strong as a Waggy 44. and on 40's you really need 1 tons' on 35's a 9" and 44 would be a really nice combo, even on 37's with alloy shafts.

I have a friend that has had 40's on his stock Rubicon axles and has destroyed his rear ring gear a few times, and broken the lockers quite a few times, now he has 38's and runs them hard with little to no issues. A lot of it depends on the style terrain you drive on, and how you actually drive your rig. if you are right foot to the floor every time you intend to move, then yeah you will need 1 tons :D.

[cable97526]

Did you read my post all the way through? Or did you just spout information you thought you knew? I hate it when MIS INFORMATION is strewn around like somebody knows what there talking about.

OK first off a Ruby D44 and a standard D44 are NO different other than the locker center section (this does not include the newer Chrysler D44) They are the same shafts, center, housing etc.etc. So saying there not as strong as a 30 year old wag axle is kind of out there if you think about it.

Second A full built 9" has MORE ring and pinion strength because there are always 3 teeth of the pinion engaging the ring gear at all times rather than 1 on a D60, The Superior axle kit that I have uses 1.42" shafts necked down to the 1.31" 31 spline input of the 9" center, they are chromoly and are about 40% stronger than a stock D60 shaft.

So in closing a Ruby 44 and Wag 44 ARE THE SAME other than width and center section (ET locker/posi/open) A 9" built is stronger than a D60 and in stock form a 9 inch is almost as strong as a D60 other than shaft diameter and housing strength. Like I said in a previous post when we were running 35" tires we were breaking parts on a regular basis, now that we are running larger tires breakage occurs in the parking lots where we gather to meet at the trail:D As many have stated it all depends on your driving STYLE, but like shepherdblake and others have said "Its better to have more and not need it then have less and be without"

[Jakemd98]

lol... well to keep this thread from going south i am going to bow out. I still stick to what i think. On 35's 1 tons are unnecessary... the most i would up-grade is probably the rear, but i would wait to break it too. :p

[Josh D]

OK first off a Ruby D44 and a standard D44 are NO different other than the locker center section (this does not include the newer Chrysler D44) They are the same shafts, center, housing etc.etc. So saying there not as strong as a 30 year old wag axle is kind of out there if you think about it.



So in closing a Ruby 44 and Wag 44 ARE THE SAME other than width and center section (ET locker/posi/open)

Hate to burst your bubble buddy but the housings are not the same. The Rubi D44 has the same 2.5" axle tubes as the D35. It's rated for 2700 lbs. Big tires and abusive wheeling will cause the housing to flex which will envoke collateral damage on other parts (shafts, carriers, ring gear, etc.)The Waggy D44 has 2.75" axle tubes that are also thicker, bigger axle bearings, and is rated for 3500 lbs. The Waggy axle can take more abuse when in similiar rigs. I've abused mine in my YJ with a detriot, 5.38's, 36" TSL's and Moser shafts on hard trails CO, AZ, and NM (ever heard of Las Cruces or Chile Challenge?) and it's held up great. I have bent flanges and twisted splines on stock shafts, but since upgrading to Mosers I have had no problems.

As far as the 9" Vs D60 debate, well, there are just too many variations of both and a comparison would have to be narrowed down to specific versions.

[cable97526]

Hate to burst your bubble buddy but the housings are not the same. The Rubi D44 has the same 2.5" axle tubes as the D35. It's rated for 2700 lbs. Big tires and abusive wheeling will cause the housing to flex which will envoke collateral damage on other parts (shafts, carriers, ring gear, etc.)The Waggy D44 has 2.75" axle tubes that are also thicker, bigger axle bearings, and is rated for 3500 lbs. The Waggy axle can take more abuse when in similiar rigs. I've abused mine in my YJ with a detriot, 5.38's, 36" TSL's and Moser shafts on hard trails CO, AZ, and NM (ever heard of Las Cruces or Chile Challenge?) and it's held up great. I have bent flanges and twisted splines on stock shafts, but since upgrading to Mosers I have had no problems.

As far as the 9" Vs D60 debate, well, there are just too many variations of both and a comparison would have to be narrowed down to specific versions.

I will have to agree on that, but since we have never bent a housing or destroyed a unit bearing this is not something I was looking at. I was talking purely about he internals of the unit.

[68glad]

[quote=cable97526] I hate it when MIS INFORMATION is strewn around like somebody knows what there talking about. quote]

Me too so i'm calling BS on the 1 tooth pinion engagement on the D60 & 3 tooth engagement on a 9". I'm far from a ring gear expert but this just sounds wrong. Correct me if needed.

[cable97526]

Your kidding right? Heres a poicture for you
http://www.truehi9.com/sitebuilder/images/Dana80Pinions-750x488.jpg and heres a link for you to educate yourself.
http://www.truehi9.com/gears2.html

[Josh D]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qihWTqyCpww

Here's a vid of what i was referring to. This is in gulches, i got stuck on my diffs at the end.

Our trails out here are a little drier!:thumbsup: YJ with Waggy D44 content-

http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/Trails/Hackberry/?action=view&current=DCP_1948.flv

[68glad]

cable97526- thats cool. I didn't realize you were talking about the HI9.

[cable97526]

I'm not talking about a High Nine, but True High Nine has a lot of pertinent info on it. The same applies for a standard nine inch.

[68glad]

Really? http://www.truehi9.com/gears2.html IMO the OP should use the 1-tons he's got. Put them under there and be done w/ it. Many, including myself, have been down this road. You tell yourself "Oh it'll be fine" only to regret thinking that after it breaks on the trail. Save the headache of worry/repair & don't use the 44's.

[cable97526]

Really? http://www.truehi9.com/gears2.html IMO the OP should use the 1-tons he's got. Put them under there and be done w/ it. Many, including myself, have been down this road. You tell yourself "Oh it'll be fine" only to regret thinking that after it breaks on the trail. Save the headache of worry/repair & don't use the 44's.

I agree completely, that is what I have said also, there is no reason to use those 44's and want more, it just doesn't make any sense.

[JeepMods]

yup... one ton and forget about it. It's only natural to want bigger... and when one has a chance to go bigger and they decide to stay with the smaller axles and they start breaking... it isn't worth the headaches or the stress, time & money spent to fix them.