Setting up a Cherokee for towing.

[Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81]

Im thinkin about gettin another Cherokee and using it for a DD/Tow rig. I know the wheel base isnt ideal for a tow rig but I love Cherokees! lol So what could be done to make a Cherokee a good tow rig. Oh Id be towing a car trailer with another FSJ on it.

[joe]

Make sure your brakes, suspension and steering are in A1 condition. I don't mean "ok shape" I mean "really good"

[Ristow]

yeah,maybe some J20 axles too.

[ClovisMan]

6BT Diesel swap, boxed frame, 3/4 ton springs and axles.

[babywag]

Have fun stopping, (if you have to in a hurry), because it isn't going to happen.

@ a minimum you should hydroboost the brakes.

I used my '88 to tow with 6" lift & 33's stopping ability/power (w/ stock brakes) was a joke.

[CutterN55]

Well I'd put brand dang new brakes on it & give the motor a good rebuild. Also would NOT lift it. I'd go Add-a-leafs or heavier springs and throw some 31x10.5 BFG All Terrains on there. Also rig it up for a Prodigy trailer brake controller. I love mine.

On brakes, I was wondering what it would take to put on those big ol' late model Dodge brake setups. I had one ('02 Ram) and recently sold it, but those calipers and brake pads were pretty dang big, and would require a 17" rim minimum. Thing stopped pretty good when you shut it down quick.

....I had a dream last night of building a short bed, quad cab dually out of a Waggy/J-truck body and an Excursion frame/drive-train with the 7.3L PSD. That would be pure awesomeness!! :eek:

[Banchee]

For sure the tow vehicle needs to have good brakes and suspension, but don't over look the trailer as CutterN55 indicated above. A well built trailer with good suspension and a good electric brake setup will make towing (and stopping) much easier on the tow vehicle, and on your nerves too.

My car trailer has brakes on all 4 wheels and I have a Draw Tite adjustable brake controller under the dash. The controller allows you dial in the braking force of the trailer brakes for the weight of the loaded trailer and the braking ability of the tow vehicle you have it hooked up to. Empty trailer adjust controller for less trailer braking force. Loaded trailer adjust controler for more braking force. It's great for downgrades too. Simple and trouble free!

:cool:
Dennis

[Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81]

Cool, I was thinking of a rear disc set-up, K20 front caliper conversion, and hydroboost for the brakes. Id probly be using a U-haul AT trailer for the most part until I get my own and its got surge brakes, I know its not the greatest set-up but the trailer I get after that will definatly have electric brakes. Will a 360 w/an RV cam and a junkyard TBI setup provide enough power? And Id like to swap the 208 for a 229 if it aint too much trouble. Also what kind of hitch set-up should I install?

[BGW]

....I had a dream last night of building a short bed, quad cab dually out of a Waggy/J-truck body and an Excursion frame/drive-train with the 7.3L PSD. That would be pure awesomeness!! :eek:

That would be really awesome and unique.

[babywag]

I was thinking of a rear disc set-up, K20 front caliper conversion, and hydroboost for the brakes

That's pretty much exactly what I have right now w/ 6" lift & 33" tires.
I can finally stop the beast very very easily.
In fact I'd put it up against or '09 Charger with huge 4 wheel disc brakes.

[crazydog]

The aforementioned brake upgrades for the Cherokee, good working trailer brakes, a good brake controller(I love my new Tekonsha P-3), a weight distributing hitch, and air springs for the rear axle to give a good ride empty and help with the weight when loaded as opposed to stiffer rear springs.

[Jakemd98]

This is actually going to be the function of my waggy when it's done.

the plans are eventually to go to:
hydro boost

D44 ford front w/14 bolt FF or sterling 10.5 FF rear (4 wheel disc)... 3.73 gears

265/75R16 E load index tires

Spring over, w/shackle flip.

and rather than using AAL or overload springs, i will be using a torsion style hitch and air bags. that way i can keep a good unloaded ride and still be sturdy enough for a load.

after that obviously a good brake controller

and if money is good later in life a 12v cummins 6bt.

While i love a good D44, i really think that for prolonged towing it will get hot and wear very very quickly. I would say a D60 rear would be the minimum i would consider. or just run the d44 until it dies and then swap in the bigger axle.

[Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81]

Ok so Ive got an idea for brakes both for the truck and trailer and I like the air spring idea, but what class hitch should I be looking for and will a 360 w/an RV cam and TBI provide enough power?

[threepiece188]

Although I have done so many times, I don't like towing other vehicles (FSJ'S) with my Wagoneer. Installing heavy springs is, in my oppinion as important as the brake upgrade for safety. Heavy springs will allow you to increase the tounge weight. Insufficient tounge weight will give the tralier a fighting chance at taking control of the Cherokee. A series of dips on the road surface is all that is needed to start the uncontrollable oscillating process. It's like death wobble in slow motion. This has happened to me more than once. A wide track Cherokee might be more resistant to this condition, I have never towed with one. I am now building a J20 for towing duty.
Dan

[AlsChopShop]

personally, i wouldn't tow with my chief ever again. i towed a stock XJ just into the next town over once, on a very light flatbed. even with a lot of tongue weight it would start feeling 'uneasy' at anything above 50mph. it was a very long white knuckle drive.

pulling power, stopping power... all sucked. but the short wheelbase is the biggest problem, and there's nothing you can do about it. the length of a car hauler has too much leverage for this wheelbase. if it wants to take you somewhere, it will. when that happens (i've seen it many times before), it usually ends up with your trailer and tow rig on its side or top, sideways across 3 lanes of freeway.

i would look at a long bed J10 or J20 so it is a nice stable platform to start with. the bonus part about the J20 is the axles are already up to par.

no matter how you build it, there is just not enough wheelbase for stability.


i've towed my chief numerous times on the same trailer with my half-ton extended cab pickup. its as solid as a rock, and the chief is pushing the weight limit of the trailer.

Al

[CutterN55]

Ok so Ive got an idea for brakes both for the truck and trailer and I like the air spring idea, but what class hitch should I be looking for and will a 360 w/an RV cam and TBI provide enough power?

Yes on the motor. You can get a regular bolt on hitch, just like the ones that came on the waggy's. Just make sure it's rated for enough weight.

[seventynine]

I tow a 25' Airstream trailer with my '77 Chief. It tows it amazingly well. Airstreams are known for their easy towing though. I've never had it sway on me. The trailer weighs about 5500lbs empty. I added a tranny cooler and use a weight distrubuting hitch. Everything else is stock. 3.54 gears and 31's. Airbags in the back would be a plus. Even with my weight distributing hitch I do get a bit more sag in the rear than I would like. I am planning to put a 2" lift on it eventually which will stiffen it up a bit and probably work perfect sag wise...if not I'll add some air bags.

I towed a 6,000 lb boat with my '79 Wag all over the East coast for a few years too. I had add a leafs on that with 31's.

The Chief doesn't tow near as nicely as a Suburban or Excursion (having towed with both) but it does fine. I do drive a little more carefully with the Chief though.

A coupla pics of the Chief/Airstream:
http://concrete-blues.com/jeep/airstream-chief-01.jpg


http://concrete-blues.com/jeep/airstream-chief.jpg

Dean

[threepiece188]

Thanks for the great pictures Dean. I think the problem with a car trailer is that unlike your Airstream, it's difficult to get consistent weight distribution every time you load it. I have had times when the Wagoneer towed quite nicely. It just seems to be sensitive to the weight distribution issue.
Dan

[Gambler68]

Put a dually rear in it...might have to hack off the flares :D

[seventynine]

Dan...I have a car hauler also that tow with the Chief sometimes. And yeah it is a bit tricky getting the toungue weight right. You really have to just eyeball it with the bumper drop. Or you can measure the toungue height when you have it right and shoot for the same measurement each time.
http://concrete-blues.com/jeep/chero-onthetrailer.jpg

[Serious Johnson]

Dang nice rig Dean!

I only towed anything substantial with my Wagoneer once when it was completely stock -- my 27' Airstream (around 5,000 lb). It wasn't much fun. I've since upgraded the Wag quite a bit (see sig), and it tows 7,500 lb remarkably well, and maybe 12,000 a short distance once. I've been from the Central Rockies to the East Coast and back several times so loaded. The short-ish wheelbase certainly is a bit limiting, and you have to pay close attention at all times; but mine has been over 100 MPH more than once with load, so it's not an immediate widow-maker.

The most important part is a weight-distributing hitch. Even with enough rear spring capacity, it's important for handling & braking to have some of the load shared by the front wheels. Also, a D-44 / AMC 20 axle is rated at what, about 3,200 lb? With some loads, you'll be sneaking up on that, and it's nice to let the axles share.

I haven't yet tried airbags, but can imagine that they're worth having. My 4" lift BDS springs are very soft, and so sometimes I have to crank the hitch down farther than I'd like to keep things level. I like my Rancho 9000 adjustable shocks, and the only time I have the rears set full hard is when tongue weight nears a thousand pounds.

Brakes are an issue with big loads. I haven't done much with mine other than to fiddle with pad & shoe compounds. I find it necessary to run a high-temp carbon/ceramic front pad for towing only, and switch to a more cold responsive semi-metallic pad for everyday use. The stock rear drums seem fine, as does regular vacuum boost. In fact, the problem I have is front fade causing the rears to lock early. Pad compound helps that, but more as a delay than a cure. More boost wouldn't do anything but allow you to put more pressure on the still-functioning (unfaded) rears, which are plenty powerful already. A cockpit-adjustable proportioning valve (manual anti-lock :D ) could be of use if you stay right on top of it, but not really practical. The thing just needs much more massive front rotors (and necessarily larger wheels) -- sorta like all modern vehicles have. Of course good trailer brakes are a must.

The other towing downfall my modified Wag has is the wide-ratio T-18a 4-speed. It's great for most things, but that big gap between 3rd & 4th is rough. I've datalogged over 6,600 RPM (around 80 MPH with 3.73s) in third, only to slowly begin dropping speed once in 4th. I can see why modern pickups are equipped with 6-speeds, or even (shudder) slushboxes.

S.J.