which is better, SOA or SUA on the front axle?

[Dirt Wag]

On a street/trail FSJ - given the choice of SOA with stock springs in the front or SUA with 6" lift springs which would you go with and why? Thanks in advance for your opinions.

[Chief Gunner]

I debated the same lift options for about a year before I made my decision. Of course, the big hold up on the decision was money, but still a lot of thought and research went into my decision. The 6" spring lift is simple. There is very little fab work that goes into the lift. The other nice thing is the fact that through BJ's offroad, the kit is complete so there is no guess work. The down side to the spring lift kit is the fact that the springs are very stiff. My wheeling budy has a 4" spring lift for about a year, and his springs still haven't softened up any. I think that 6" or 4" lift springs will never flex like the original springs unless you want custom racing springs and are willing to spend lots of money. I went with the SOA/ SF lift. The down side to the SOA lift is that there is quite a bit of fab work involved. The SOA can and usually is a little more expensive than the 6" kit. I did a lot of shopping, bargan hunting, and friends with the tools to do the majority of the work needed. On the plus side, the ride and flex are un-real. Look at my pics in the general discution. The only reason why my rear wheel is airborn in one of the pictures is that my rear shocks are too long so there is very little up-travel. It was a lot of work to do the SOA, but it was worth the work seeing it work as well as it does. Go with the SOA, it is soooooooo worth it.

[Tad]

Obviously I'm a little biased here and I've only ridden in one 6" spring lifted FSJ (couple of GM rigs though) so I'll keep it short.
The SOA is more work and money for a better flexing and less stiff ride.

[dank idea]

SOA/SF is the way to go IMOA. I weighed both options and read alot about both ways. After deciding i decided to do the SOA/SF. It only cost me around $745. incl. shocks. But, i did all the work incl. welding on the perches and i already had a set of knuckles laying around. (I checked a local wrecking yard and they wanted $150. for the entire front end out of a cheb. truck wich had both knuckles.) I have only wheeled it a few times but i love the ride so far and it seems to flex well.

[dank idea]

...BTW, Tads kit rules!:thumbsup:

[Chief Gunner]

...BTW, Tads kit rules!:thumbsup:
X2.....unless you get the wrong shackle flip kit. However, Tad was more than helpful making sure I had a good plan in place to fix the problem. In the end, I had custom one off SF for my rig. If your gonna do a SOA, get the TT Fabwork kit. For the money, that is the way to go.

[will e]

I will also vote for SOA. More flex, softer ride.

It's harder to do but if you factor in the cost of what replacing ball joints and steering compontents would cost anyways (keeping in mind your rig probably needs new ones as it is) the cost is easier to justify.

And, of course, you get the perches up and out of the way (better clearance) and some or all of the steering components (high steer/cross over).

It looks better too. Too much arch in the spring just doesn't look right to me.

Finally, the front stock springs were not set up for SOA. The load put on them when you brake now bends the springs backwards from the way they were originally. I can see a bend in mine already (kevin warned me about this) and will end up replacing them with some custom springs.

[KJ Ryu]

Better for what? If you're doing low speed crawling, then, yeah, you want the most flex you can get. If you're gonna be doing high speed launches through a 3 foot deep mud pit, then you're gonna want the least amount of axle-wrap possible.

[temps425]

Im running the all spring lift...nice to have the extra stiffness for street driving specially if you drive fast...:rolleyes:

[Chief Gunner]

Im running the all spring lift...nice to have the extra stiffness for street driving specially if you drive fast...:rolleyes:

That being said, having the nice smooth ride along with the lift is the way to go. These things don't really drive fast enough (with a few exeptions of course) that you woulr need a stiff ride. I guess to each their own though. If your happy, then all is good.

[getlost4x4]

i like soft springs and stiff shocks.

:thumbsup:

i voted for spring over. i used to have a toyota truck with waggy springs up front with the factory spring over. it drove like a caddy.

i'm not sure if i like the spring under or not yet. but i think i can do the spring over pretty cheap. i found fabricator parts at ruffstuff specialities and on balistic fab. just need spring perches and the other highsteer parts.

[Richo360]

I have considered SOA with mine, but was wondering about front axle tramp which I've heard can be an issue. Seeing as I run 37's, i'd figure bigger rubber will also amplify the problem too. Comments?

I have about 2" spring, 2" BL and longer shackles now (standard leaves recurved).

Makes sense that flatter springs (ie SOA) will always flex better than springs with a substantial curve already built into them. (ie 6" lift leaves).

[cajun_lad]

I've now driven a 4" lift spring rig, a 4" lift spring + SOA rig, and a SOA w/ stock spring rig.

For trails/crawling, I'd take the SOA w/ stock springs for the flex.
For street driving, I'd take the lift spring rig.
For a combo of street/trails, I'd probably do SOA w/ an AAL. Should still flex on the trail, but the AAL should stiffen it up enough for the street.

Just my .02

(And yes, bigger is better... but more expensive!)

[duncanstives]

SOA... Rides great.

I recently got my rig all put back together with proper shocks, bump stops, etc and I have to say for a offroad only rig with homebuilt driveshafts (shortened myself, not blalanced), lifted over 8in and running on unblananced TSLs it rides really nice on the road.
I put on locking hubs to prevent the front driveshaft from vibrating on the road, the rear one does not seem to cause any problems at all... Honestly the ride got a lot nicer than my van... Much softer although I would not take any corners super fast.
My lift is SOA with BJs lift shackles and rear shackle flip inboarded to under the rails. It cost less than $850 with everything (brake lines, shocks, mounts, u-bolts, driveshafts, etc, etc, etc).

[will e]

Finally, the front stock springs were not set up for SOA. The load put on them when you brake now bends the springs backwards from the way they were originally. I can see a bend in mine already (kevin warned me about this) and will end up replacing them with some custom springs.

I was thinking about what I said here.

I don't think the fact the axle is on top changes the direction the spring is bent.

[zachandandy]

Type in "slick rock wagoneer" on YouTube, there will be two wagoneer videos, my 77 soa, and my brother in laws 6" spring lift. Watch his get a tire 2' in the air in the same place my tires stay on the ground. I would much rather be on all fours.

[CutterN55]

I am unhappy with my 6" lift.
Looks cool as hell and was real easy to do, but if I knew then what I know now... I'd have gone a different route.
My Jeep rides like a tank, chatters my teeth on the street. I think my spring mounts have been cracking due to the springs being so stiff. Flex sucks, good up travel, but zero droop= tires airborne

If I could do it agian, ( I will eventually) I'd go SOA+SF on new stock springs with high-steer.

[JeepinPete]

My Cherokee started with a 4" lift (re-arched stock springs). It rode ruff, but not as bad as most spring lifted trucks I've ridden in. On road was bearable, but off road it really beat you up. After a day at Rausch Creek, I would be ready for bed.

I then did a SOA using stock Waggy springs, and TT's kit in the rear. I also swapped in a Ford D44 with SOA perches. IMO, rear Waggy springs are perfect SOA, but the fronts are too soft. I bent two sets up front, and I am not rough on a truck. One thing I found that helped was to install taller bump stops from the rear of a S10 Blazer.

Another thing to note is you are going to need a swaybar up front for road use, especially use factory springs.

[Tad]

...One thing I found that helped was to install taller bump stops from the rear of a S10 Blazer.

Another thing to note is you are going to need a swaybar up front for road use, especially use factory springs.
Pete,
I remember the post with the S10 bump stops and have not been able to find it or the pic's, could you revisit that for me/us?
S10's are as common as ants in these parts and it looked like a great solution.

EDIT:
Nevermind, I found it.
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=97789

[Stuka]

Well, the SOA will flex better, and it gives you better ground clearance.

However, it also introduces bunches of axle wrap. Which I have witnessed first hand on several SOA'ed FSJ's. Being spring under changes the way forces are being applied to the spring, and equates to there being less leverage on the spring itself. So axle wrap is much less of an issue.

Tad's longer spring perches do help negate this effect in an SOA configuration though.

With that said, I ultimately do plan on an SOA/Shackle Flip for my J10 one day.

[Richo360]

Well, the SOA will flex better, and it gives you better ground clearance.

However, it also introduces bunches of axle wrap. Which I have witnessed first hand on several SOA'ed FSJ's. Being spring under changes the way forces are being applied to the spring, and equates to there being less leverage on the spring itself. So axle wrap is much less of an issue.


The SOA's I've seen have also used (generally) standard springs with leaves taken out to remove the inbuilt curve (ie make the springs sit more or less flat). My guess is in normal configuration (ie SUA) the shorter leaves not only asssiat in weight carrying, but also stop axle wrap. So in removing the short leaves, axle wrap will be more prevalent as a consequence.

[Mikel]

Adding six inches of lift to the front springs gives you a lot of arch, which will affect how the spring behaves. Itīs more work, but SOA will give you the best of both worlds.

[hardbody1]

I'm switching to a soa/sf this summer from the Bjs 6in lift. The 6in is so stiff I feel like I could go autocross my Jeep and it doesn't have any more body roll than my buddies MR2.

[380tom]

I am unhappy with my 6" lift.
Looks cool as hell and was real easy to do, but if I knew then what I know now... I'd have gone a different route.
My Jeep rides like a tank, chatters my teeth on the street. I think my spring mounts have been cracking due to the springs being so stiff. Flex sucks, good up travel, but zero droop= tires airborne

If I could do it agian, ( I will eventually) I'd go SOA+SF on new stock springs with high-steer.



X2, I was looking for the easiest lift to install and I got it. Rides stiff, no flex. Will go SOA later for sure.

[shredby4]

I am unhappy with my 6" lift.
Looks cool as hell and was real easy to do, but if I knew then what I know now... I'd have gone a different route.
My Jeep rides like a tank, chatters my teeth on the street. I think my spring mounts have been cracking due to the springs being so stiff. Flex sucks, good up travel, but zero droop= tires airborne

If I could do it agian, ( I will eventually) I'd go SOA+SF on new stock springs with high-steer.

I didn't see you mention it anywhere else in the post, though I may have missed it, but how long has your lift been installed? I'm curious to if it's broken in and still that rough....

My vote is SOA anyway. I want mine to flex. Nothing flexes like worn out springs.

[temps425]

Yea, go with 6" springs if you want to roll your jeep going over a 2ft high rock. NOT intended for off-road use IMHO. Maybe if you are brand new to wheeling they could save you some pain, and good for mudding and sand dunes.

[Impact]

Is there some where that sells new stock size FSJ springs?
Or how about using a 2" lift spring in a SOA set up?
That would give you approx 7" of lift?
With approx 7" of lift in the front what are you guys doing in the rear? Just straight 6" lift packs, limiting rear flex?

[duncanstives]

Yeah.. BJs sells them.

[CutterN55]

I didn't see you mention it anywhere else in the post, though I may have missed it, but how long has your lift been installed? I'm curious to if it's broken in and still that rough....

My vote is SOA anyway. I want mine to flex. Nothing flexes like worn out springs.

2 years and I've got Rancho 9000's on it and yeah I've beat on it. local play here and playing hard in Uwharrie N.C. I just don't like the way it lumbers around. it's pretty tippy. I know the shocks could be a little longer, because they do limit a little droop. One of these days I think I'm going to a longer non-gas shock and pulling the wraps off the springs and put a U bracket on there with a bolt through them to allow the springs to open up a little bit on the droop.

[temps425]

What would be the longest, most flexible lift spring you could apply to the fsj frame by relocating the mount?

[will e]

Example of decent flex with stock springs, SOA, SF.



http://www.gofsj.com/fsj/uploads/d386e8ace74036e1268ad82e01b52e2c_dsc02909.jpg

[Tad]

Example of decent flex with stock springs, SOA, SF. I always really liked this shot of Kevin from the Hackberry run (May 2008) although I think he's running some special Alcan's or something similar in addition to the SOA.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/Trails/Hackberry/78CherokeeChief.jpg

[Mikel]

Yes, I need spring straps in the front... :rolleyes:

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/bw1339/My%20J300/DSC03217.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/bw1339/My%20J300/DSC03218.jpg

[Tad]

Yes, I need spring straps in the front... :rolleyes:...
Yea, I put mine back on after bending the first two sets of main springs, I'm not that hard core. We'll see what happens with the newer spring configuration.

[will e]

Yeah kevin has some Alcan's he had made for him on the front.

What is a spring strap? I assume it is some kind of strap that limits travel?

[Tad]

I was thinking he meant clamp there Mike, you can see in his pic how the leaves separate. It gives great droop to remove them but at certain points all the force winds up on the main spring.
This is what I use.
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showpost.php?p=812966&postcount=5

[will e]

http://www.gofsj.com/fsj/uploads/f07881d078b527a6ffbe0073efd649e1_moab7.jpg

Another picture of Kevin's flex

[will e]

http://www.gofsj.com/fsj/uploads/f1fc66251c798258201708799b68c3b3_dsc01296.jpg
I think this is an example of a 6" spring lift

[Chief Gunner]

Here is an SOA lift on 33X12.5 tires. This was the check out ride after all the work:

http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt298/paulma600/JeepFlex1.jpg

And here is the next trip up pancake rock:

http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt298/paulma600/flex2.jpg

Overall, I am very happy with the way the SOA works.

[bill3]

I'm on the fence on witch way to go here as well, but leaning towords a 6" kit SUA. Some of my buddies say spring over and some say spring under. I have a 3 or 4" rough country lift. Yes it does ride alittle rough, but not to bad, but I'm also running a big block :rolleyes: so maybe that may help the ride. I am really supriced on how well it flexs. So far the only thing that has limited it was the shocks and my fiberglass finders on the back. Witch I'm replacing front and back with steel flares like the M715 :thumbsup: With a few tricks you can make SUA FLEX nicely. I follow my buddies with SOA buggies everywhere they go and have only ran into a few places that I didn't feel I could go and thats mainly cuz I don't want to mess up my truck. In the end it comes down to commen since. I herd people talk about BJ'S 6" kit on here. But has anyone had exsperiance with the Rusty's Offroad 6" kit? I'm leaning towards that one.
Like my crazy arrsss ARMY buddy says; :alc:

IF YOU CAN'T FOUR WHEEL IT,THREE WHEEL IT, IF YOU CAN'T THREE WHEEL IT, TWO WHEEL IT, AND IT YOU CAN'T TWO WHEEL IT, :drivin:
RAMP IT :omfg: He beleaves speed and air usally work when all else fells, kinda like a BFH :lol:

[gotgas]

I have a spring lift which is good enough for the wheeling, I do. I really like all the extra wheel travel you get with the sua. :thumbsup:

[78 Arizona Chief]

Wow,
I love looking on here to find pictures of my jeep. I really liked that Hackberry trail too.

Anyway, you all know how I will vote. I have run 4" skyjackers, 6" Bj's and then the SOA. The stock springs SOA'ed will not last long. The Leverage put on them will turn them into 's's real quick like Wille said. The issue is that the second spring in the stock pack does not extend under the main eye and shackle eye to provide support. When I had my Alcan's built, they intentionally made the second leaf long enough to get under the main eye and shackle eye. These have been on my jeep for 6 or more years now and from the picts, you can tell I use the springs a lot. They have held up great and actually ride really well on the street. They cost me $550 for the pair, not sure what they cost today.

On my brother's '88 Gwag, we did an SOA, and ultimately tore apart two spring sets to take the primary leaf from one pack, cut the eyes off it, and placed it in the other pack to create that second leaf that needed to get under the main eye. We then took out a leaf mid point in the pack to get the overall height close to stock. This pack has been doing great for three years now and flexes like crazy.

The 6" spring that we ran on Nick's wag only lasted for 1 trip. We flexed the springs pretty good on the first trip and broke the main leaf right infront of the main eye. BJ's replaced it instantly (great customer service) but Nick ultimately wanted a softer flexier ride. As everyone before has stated, the SOA is more involved, more costly but worth every penny.
Kevin.

[rustywagoneers_com]

I will apologize up front for not reading every post.

However, I would suggest that people not look at it so much as a question of SOA or SUA being better than the other.

More important is looking at it in terms of lift versus driveline angles.

[rocklaurence]

With the added expense of the SOA a custom set of longer springs for a SUA would be best. Have Alcan build a set of 54-57" springs with offset pin for less than the SOA kit and relocate the shackle to the rear. Am I crazy?:confused: Ive done a Shackle Reversal on my J10 with Chevy 6" springs for $300. If I were going to spend more and needed less than 6" of lift, Id deffinately go with the custom springs with a SUA. IMO, the SOA puts you at 8+" of lift and difficult and expensive front driveshaft issues.

[Tad]

...IMO, the SOA puts you at 8+" of lift...
That much? On stock springs?
(what the OP asked about)

Wow, that's a lot.
I'll have to remember that.

[rocklaurence]

That much? On stock springs?
(what the OP asked about)

Wow, that's a lot.
I'll have to remember that.

That was a guess-ta-mation. :cool: Taking into account a 3" axle tube, 1" pad and 3-4" spring pack. "All That" puts it up there.;) Now, I also Cyphered a SOA with a Combo of Ford Ranger/Explorer 57" springs like what I have on my CJ5--Soft and Flexy.

[tgreening]

Or you can go outside the box (a little bit) and pay the extra money for a good riding high quality standard type lift kit of the non-BJs variety (no offense), and have all the ease of bolt on along with good ride and decent flex. BJs kits are nice and economical but I took one look at those leaves when it arrived and knew I was in for a rough ride. No pun intended. :)

A couple years down the road and it will still launch my butt out of the seat on the highway when I hit one of those "Slight Bump Ahead" areas the sign warns you about an eye blink before you hit it.

I've done both kinds of lifts numerous times over the years and it's tough to beat the ease of installation of a bolt on kit. Done right and the right kit and you can get good flex. Which btw is not the be-all end-all of off roading. Some folks want flex for the sake of flex and it looks good on a ramp or in a picture but it isn't always so great off road. Just like anything it can be over done.

[will e]

That much? On stock springs?
(what the OP asked about)

Wow, that's a lot.
I'll have to remember that.

Yeah, I think my SOA netted about 8" of lift too. i was figuring that with a SOA/SF I was going to be able to just clear the garage with a TAD rack but it would be a couple of inches too tall.

[Tad]

Yeah, I think my SOA netted about 8" of lift too. i was figuring that with a SOA/SF I was going to be able to just clear the garage with a TAD rack but it would be a couple of inches too tall.
Mike,
I think you are counting the change in tire size also (31's to 35's).

I sort of meant that sarcastically, guess it didn't come out that way.
If you used my perches it's 4 3/4" + the thickness of your spring pack. Probably a bit less since the forces on the springs are slightly different.
It's basic math and does not change, that's why math works.

Now if you go swapping springs around in your packs, or adding/subtracting springs, or change packs altogether, that all means nothing since you have introduced variables outside of the original math.

[Desert Rat]

I have a SAS'd Nissan Frontier using waggy parts - the truck is very near the same dimensions and weight as a full size wag (about 4600lbs dry with my cage, armor, bed cap, etc. I went from a 4" FSJ Skyjacker SUA setup to SOA using stock 2 leaf '85 Chevy K10 springs for the cost of New Ubolts, spring perches, $60 for the springs and a new set of shock towers to relocate the shock mounts. $200 and about 6 hours of work later with a friend with 220v wire feed welder later I have a better ride, better flex and nearly the same ride height as before. Spring mount locations and shackles were retained.

I had used a few different spring combinations when SUA....Rancho 44044s, Rough Country 8004s, and the Skyjackers. The stock Chevy leaves outride all of them.

http://www.piratepathy.com/desertrat/for%20sale%20stuff%201110/natural%20bridge%20-%20stuff%20for%20sale%20041.JPG

[69_Gladiator]

I would definately go with the soa because of the better flex

[AlsChopShop]

That was a guess-ta-mation. :cool: Taking into account a 3" axle tube, 1" pad and 3-4" spring pack. "All That" puts it up there.;) Now, I also Cyphered a SOA with a Combo of Ford Ranger/Explorer 57" springs like what I have on my CJ5--Soft and Flexy.get some experience before you start making assumptions.

no FSJ came with a 4" thick leaf pack, even 3" is a big stretch.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a400/AlsChopShop/DSC00725.jpg


SOA lift achieved: just a bit over 6". this is not with tads perches, his are a bit taller and net closer to 7". i think he'd know, he makes tons of them.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a400/AlsChopShop/DSC00723.jpg

Al

[rocklaurence]

So, now we know.:D However, if those pictures were taken close to the equator, the vehicle would be slightly heavier than say it would be further North. It would compress the springs more than it would in, say Canada. Thus, a SOA would achieve more lift than what you show.:rolleyes:
Correct me if Im wrong.:)

[AlsChopShop]

So, now we know.:D However, if those pictures were taken close to the equator, the vehicle would be slightly heavier than say it would be further North. It would compress the springs more than it would in, say Canada. Thus, a SOA would achieve more lift than what you show.:rolleyes:
Correct me if Im wrong.:)i'm darn close to half way between the equator and the north pole, so i guess we can call this the perfect 'medium'. :thumbsup:

Al

[Tad]

...
Correct me if Im wrong.:)
Sure.
I think that would only apply if you started the lift away from the equator and finished it at the equator.

Look, I wasn't trying to bag on you or correct you. If you took it that let me please apologize.
I only replied to this post because I get asked this question 2-3 times every week.

It usually starts with: "My buddy used your perches and got 8" of lift, how come I only got 6.5"?"
The only reply that works is "no he didn't, it's not magic and it doesn't work that way, he introduced something different and didn't tell you or forgot".

It happens, I've done it. Longer shackle, different spring pack, added a spring, there can be a dozen different reasons that I can't predict.

[rocklaurence]

LMAO, no I enjoyed the conversation and I was guestimating and correction and input is what I was expecting.:thumbsup: I suppose that with all the variations in the FSJ over the years, there really isnt one answer in most cases. Ive had two FSJs, a '67 when I was 19 and now an '87, They are worlds apart from each other in the parts that were used.

[alwomac]

6" lift springs suck!!! Especially if you drive on the road, not just the trail. If you have ever had a largely lifted vehicle with all spring lift, they bounce big time with large sidewalled rubber. Try running down a choppy paved road with 6" springs and 36" tires on 15" rims around 60mph and see how many times you end up over the lines. I won't ever lift a leaf spring vehicle again with more than 4" springs and probably not more than 2". They are stiff, rough, and not good for anything but just getting you higher in the air. There are other options and SOA is the best option for an FSJ IMHO.

[serehill]

I owned a 77 with SOA. I own a 80 with 4 " SUA & 3" body. I drive mine on the road & tow a 24' deck Boat & a 19' bass boat. I don't off road much. My experiences may be just me. Let me tell you guys in a 40 mile an hour crosswind an SOA towing will scare the stuff out of you. Especially in Texas & NM & AZ. on the flat highways. My 80 SUA is all about stability for a very top heavy vehicle. You can see it time & again in this thread it's about what you plan to do. I could care less about flex. In a cross wind I don't like changing lanes with a 2,200 pound boat without intending to. You really want to mess up a nice pair of jeans get into an emergency braking situation with 2,200 pounds & a bunch of camping gear inside & on the rack pushing you with SOA. That's when the 77 had to go.

What your jeeps Job duty is has a lot to do with what works & what doesn't. When reading the threads you can clearly see the split between what is for what style.

It's my concept but I never wanted a soft ride from any vehicle with a solid front axle under it there's really no such thing (Well without sacraficing). Ever owned a 50's model truck????????????? soft ride only for what I do isn't cool.
I know a lot of people are looking for answers maybe you have to determine what you goals are first.

I don't think there is a right answer here. It's simply a case of the right tool for the right job & what an indiviual likes. Very expesive choices if you make the wrong one.

[SNO*MAN]

I would have to go with SUA in the opinion section. That could be do to the safety in towing and what I utilize it for. Get better springs if rough ride is of main concern in my opinion. Standard 6" lift springs are made to make money in kits in my opinion and will ride rougher. If it spends over 50% of the time off-road on rough trails then perhaps SOA would be more desirable. But how many people actually get to do that with their rig? Unless it is towed there it would be SUA for me.:)
And a small body lift:D

[Blake]

It's sad that so many people are so against soa.

very sad.

[SNO*MAN]

It's sad that so many people are so against soa.

very sad.


I am not against it for how I drive... I have had both and just would rather not pull my boat with SOA set up.
Great for off road, not so much for towing.

[Suddendeath]

I'm a newbie to the FSJ scene, but I've seen trucks running SOA/SUA and I have to say I'm leaning towards the SUA choice for my Wagoneer. If you are like most people who go offroading, then that means you...

1) Drive your truck to the meets
2) Plan on driving your truck home from the meets
3) Often drive your truck as your daily driver
4) May even contemplate taking your truck on the highway
5) Go 4x4ing about once a month

Thats like, what, 90% on-road and 10% off road? I'd love to have the bunches of flex that SOA gives, but for my application I don't think it's warranted.

[El Jefe]

My jeep is still spring under. Works fine. Except kinda stiff. I don't tow with mine. But I want to go spring over.

[Blake]

maybe the non-believers will believe after I take my SOA truggy on a 5k trip on the ultimate adventure this year. You will see it in the magazine.

What will be your excuse then?

:fsj:

[Tad]

maybe the non-believers will believe after I take my SOA truggy on a 5k trip on the ultimate adventure this year. You will see it in the magazine.

What will be your excuse then?

:fsj:
Never done 5K in mine yet but I believe you just fine.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=tucson&daddr=Ouray+to:Silver+City,+NM+to:Tucson,+AZ&geocode=FS-q6wEdcWVj-Skr7SwLQWXWhjEVxxZNOC3Dcw%3BFXQuRAIdZxCV-SnzhnOvfB8_hzHdWykABMgDkA%3BFRsI9AEd-sWL-SnTlNn7msfYhjEQq3gdKC6zpQ%3BFS-q6wEdcWVj-Skr7SwLQWXWhjEVxxZNOC3Dcw&hl=en&mra=ls&sll=35.119909,-109.379883&sspn=10.309171,15.930176&ie=UTF8&ll=34.976002,-109.35791&spn=10.327251,15.930176&t=h&z=6
That's a pretty regular trip.

I tow up to 2Klbs on a small trailer (I'd go more w/brakes but that's my axle limit right now).
It's more stable on the highway than my '93 Nissan Hardbody (sway bar and disconnects).
It can be a DD if needed (side effect of owning older stuff).
It will go to the trail, on the trail, will strap/winch you off the trail if needed and take me back home just fine.
All it really needs are some better seats, bigger tires and hydro-assist.

[will e]

yeah, I ran my dd for almost two years and that was on stock spings and no sway bar!!!:eek:

[temps425]

Hmm, yeah I'm going to go SOA and plan to daily drive it. What are the problems with running SOA for daily driving? Just not much control?

[Dirt Wag]

Hmm, yeah I'm going to go SOA and plan to daily drive it. What are the problems with running SOA for daily driving? Just not much control?I have SOA with a drop pitman arm but no other mods to the steering and I can tell you the bump steer is a bit scary. On the road, every time you hit a bump or dip, or brake hard, or hit a crosswind, you have to make a correction. It's not unmanageable, but you simply CANNOT relax while driving on the street. You have to keep both hands on the wheel at all times and be ready to make those corrections. The right way to do it is crossover steering which will fix the problem. Off road the bump steer is unnoticeable.

[78 Arizona Chief]

It just isn't as easy as a one or the other answer. Either way can be made to perform well in all situations if properly designed. The fact is the stock packs are not designed to operate in an SOA fashion. They work great as designed with the 1 - 1.5 inches of uptravel before bumpstop contact. Place them SOA and they die quickly. Would I tow with an SOA on stock springs, hell I wouldn't drive an SOA with stock springs let alone tow with it. Now getting a custom set of front packs designed to work with SOA and you are no different than say the GM subs that can tow a lot! If we are talking about a 4-6 inch SUA all spring lift, then you are making a severe compromise in terms of ride quality for appearance. These spring packs (with the few exceptions like Skyjacker and such) are designed to hold the truck up way beyond any actual suspension design physics and thus are made pretty stiff to deal with the leverage forces placed on them by the increased height. As with all arched leaf packs, they are naturally progressive in spring rate and the higher the arch, the quicker the spring rate increases. I am currently running front Alcan 2" over SOA springs, and rear full pack Alcan with flipped shackle eyes. I tow and wheel the snot out of my jeep. It is far more stable towing than my wife's '04 Grand Cherokee, and has more wheel travel than her front long arm lift. My packs have held up great for over 8 years now and never are taken easy on. That is because they are specifically designed as SOA packs. My jeep even handles better than it did with the 4" Skyjacker packs (fantastic packs in my opinion!) that are now well north of 150,000 miles and serving on my brother's Honcho.

Sorry for the long ramble. As I said, both suspension designs can work great if components are designed with their intended orientation in mind. If not, both will require some serious compromise in terms of ride quality, life expectance, and sheer safety.
Kevin

[elbastardo]

I ran SOA on my 64 pickup. But I ran A set of chevy leaf springs (spring under frame) and a pair of chevy axles 10bolt/14bolt. The truck ran great at 60 down the freeway on 38s with 4.88s. But The springs were designed to work as SOA on the chevy. One thing I just got lucky on was its enginered setup, If I ran SOA on the stock springs I dont know how it would react compared to the chevy setup.

Until this post I didnt think about the configuration of the spring per aplication:confused:. But I can say that the chevy springs with the springs under the frame with A SOA I fit 38s with ease and it drove very well:thumbsup:

[blake5179]

I would like to do a SOA in the front, I did this on an early wrangler a few years back and loved the flex and ride for the type of wheeling I do.

My question is about the steering, I have seen the crossover steering kit from BJ's, looks like a good kit but costs ~$400.
Are there any Dana 44's in the junkyard that I could pull the passenger side steering knuckle from that have that high steer? (chevy, ford, dodge, scout??)
Are there other steering kits out there I could look at?

[Tad]

...My question is about the steering, I have seen the crossover steering kit from BJ's, looks like a good kit but costs ~$400.
Are there any Dana 44's in the junkyard that I could pull the passenger side steering knuckle from that have that high steer? (chevy, ford, dodge, scout??)...?
Not like what you see in the BJ's kit, it's not a factory part.
Other folks sell it but I have not seen it in a package for FSJ's.

...Are there other steering kits out there I could look at?
You can source a flat top knuckle from a 75-77 FSJ or GM front D44, have the knuckle milled, drilled and tapped for a high steer arm and then get a drag link made for x-over steering, or go full high steering with two flat tops and a custon tie rod and drag link.

There's a thread in the archives that pertains to this with a list of vendors (not sure how many are still in business) and there are many other vendors out there that do the work and can provide the parts.

[cmelo]

I would like to do a SOA in the front, I did this on an early wrangler a few years back and loved the flex and ride for the type of wheeling I do.

My question is about the steering, I have seen the crossover steering kit from BJ's, looks like a good kit but costs ~$400.
Are there any Dana 44's in the junkyard that I could pull the passenger side steering knuckle from that have that high steer? (chevy, ford, dodge, scout??)
Are there other steering kits out there I could look at?

I would keep an eye out on pirate4x4 for used knuckles and high steer arms. You only NEED one high steer arm. I have both steering links over the leaf springs and not that I regret it but just regular crossover would have been fine.

[jeepfan93]

SO what I can make out of this is that, money aside, a SOA with specific, ALCAN type of springs made for SOA is the way to go for the front? In the rear since they are SOA from the factory, what changes that towing is reduced or more spring wrap occurs? I've been debating this for a while now to and am thinking perhaps a Suburban type rear spring may be needed for the best all around performance. I.E. lifted look, high speed stability, towing, ride comfort. I know there are always compromises to be made but I can where the factory front springs would be a problem in SOA.

[orangecherokee]

Obviously I'm a little biased here and I've only ridden in one 6" spring lifted FSJ (couple of GM rigs though) so I'll keep it short.
The SOA is more work and money for a better flexing and less stiff ride.

that's the short of it right there.

[Suddendeath]

SO what I can make out of this is that, money aside, a SOA with specific, ALCAN type of springs made for SOA is the way to go for the front? In the rear since they are SOA from the factory, what changes that towing is reduced or more spring wrap occurs? I've been debating this for a while now to and am thinking perhaps a Suburban type rear spring may be needed for the best all around performance. I.E. lifted look, high speed stability, towing, ride comfort. I know there are always compromises to be made but I can where the factory front springs would be a problem in SOA.

I'm running SOA/SF, I chose that over the cost of the 6" lift kits. I grabbed a flat top knuckle off a 70's FSJ, but any flat top from a 70's FSJ or Chevy will work if IIRC.

I went on ebay and shipped it to a guy who has an ebay-based business, selling knuckle machining services and all of the associated parts. I got the knuckle machined, the 1" spacer, the steering arm tapped for the FSJ/Chevy drag link, and the extended studs/washers for like $160.

This is a link to his store:
http://myworld.ebay.com/ebaymotors/xtreme-wheeling-parts/&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2754

The stock wagoneer springs aren't designed to flex the way they will end up flexing in an SOA setup. On the front, custom springs will be needed for 100% life/performance/ride. In the rear, the stock springs work just fine.

I drive my SOA waggy on the highway at 65 and I don't worry about my life or think it's dangerous. I mean she has a slight vibration from where my rear driveshaft needs to be lengthened :o but that's about it. My crossover steering setup feels just as firm and accurate as stock, when I have the swaybars connected there is little body roll, etc. When they're off, however, anything more than 20 on a somewhat bumpy road is frightening.

Towing wise? I've never towed with my truck, but I think the issue people worry about is the soft Wagoneer springs holding the heavy Wagoneer 6" higher than normal.

[87g-wag]

What about SUA front and SF rear? Noob here so go easy. And yeas, I did read this entire thread. :)