Intake manifold installation precaution - oil baffle

[jode]

I recently had a private messenging conversation with someone who was having oil sucked up into the PCV valve issues. Thought it might be a good one to share with the general public...

Name withheld to protect the innocent -
"Jode, I read in a post about PVC blowby issues that you asked if the person had recently installed a new intake manifold......why? Where were you going with that? I recently installed a new intake manifold after a rebuild, and have had major PCV issues since the get go......"

Jode -
"I am sure you are aware of it, but when installing a new aftermarket intake manifold, you have to transfer the oil baffle from the old intake to the new intake. I thought (on a very small chance) that you might have recently swapped the intake, but not installed the oil baffle. From what I hear, that can cause the oil to be sucked up into the PCV valve. It was just a thought.
Good luck with that...."

Name withheld to protect the innocent -
"I was aware of the baffle transfer, but when I was building the engine, no one knew the true reason for the baffle being there (heck, no one even could tell me what it was named). In addition, I had installed an intake valley oiling mod for the rear bearings. By doing this, there is a steel tube that goes from one end of the intake valley to the other, thus interfering with where the baffle was to be placed. I asked quite a few people if there would be ill-effect by not installing it, and I was told it would be fine. Well, since day one of the rebuild, I have had tons of oil sucked through the PVC, thus making the engine smoke like crazy any time it is at idle. Drove me crazy. Removed the heads, had them reworked a second time, re did the intake gaskets, new pvc, and tons of other things. Now that you tell me about the oil baffle & possible problems one can have if it isn't installed, I am darn-near POSITIVE that is why my engine smokes like mad! Do you know of anyone who had this happen to them?"

Jode -
"Ahhh....bummer.....I don't know what to tell you. That sucks man. Like I was saying B4, I don't know who I heard it from or who has had that problem (B4 you), but that is what I heard...maybe if you were to post something about the oil baffle in the tech section, somebody could help you out."

[Rye]

Makes me feel better that I changed the baffle over on my intake.

When you do a rebuild... there's a ton of choices to be made on what mods to do. During my rebuild I would consult as many sources as possible so I could decide what was best for me. But even then sometimes luck is not on your side. At least the info is here now. I feel for the "innocent".

I'm finally going to start my FSJ later this week after 1 1/2 yrs. I'm holding my breath that all goes well.

[billyrb]

Ok, Jode. Although I act innocent, I am not. I am the bafoon who listened to others and didn't install the baffle. Should have done more homework prior to the build. But, you learn as you go. I will be installing the baffle within the next few weeks (once I get one in my greasy little hands).

Another thing I learned is to talk to a professional engine builder before selecting a cam. A person knowledgeable with our engines & what we'd use it for. Can save a lot of time, money & headaches. Another live & learn situation.

[AMX factor]

Ryan,
I think I have an extra baffel you can have. I'll call you tonight.

[Desert Beast]

i didnt install that baffle and i have had no problems whatsoever w/ my intake swap. is there something that might need to be looked at also? i dont know, all i know is that my engine ran great.

just my .02

[TexasJ10]

It sounds like from the reply in the original post, that the oil mod was interferring with the oil baffle that there might also be some confusion relating the the valley pan gasket verses the oil baffle/heat shield. I don't think the heat shield/baffle interfers with the typical oil mod.

[Rande]

I have seen two different kinds of intake gaskets. The full valley pan and just mating surface gaskets. I wonder if using the full valley pan style would prevent that from happening.

I'll find out. I installed my Edelbrock with the valley pan gasket and no baffle.

[Kenall]

y cant we just modifly one of the valve covers with a baffle and install the PCV there, like so many GM v8s??!!

[billyrb]

Rande, I tried both, still leaks like mad. But, I have several things going wrong here.
</font> Wrong cam, thus the exhaust valve is open slightly longer than needed</font> Timing is off. With vacuum issues, wrong cam, no oil baffle, things are awry</font> Carb is not adjusted properly. Without the baffle, and with the wrong cam, setting mixture & idle is VERY hard to get accurate
</font>I am going to tackle these hopefully over the break, or pay someone to do it for me.

[Stuka]

http://www.tribal.org/~brandon/fsj/carb-intake.html

there is a link to a write up on the performer intake install on my site for anybody interested.

[Elliott]

Good write up Stuka, then for folk running the oil line mod... just take some tin snips and cut out a section big enough for the tubing to fit through and you're all good to go.

[Drivir8]

Yes, good write up and right on time! I bought one of the new SP2P performance intakes TexasJ10 was selling and I am about to mount the heat shield in the next day or two. It came off the old intake in about 3 min. I just drilled the pop rivits out no problem. Just have to clean it a little on the inside. The only differanceis that with the SP2P, you have to cut and reshape one small section to get it to go down on the intake the way it should. I wasn't sure I could cut it with snips so I have a new hack saw blade and electric metal snips standing by! I'll most likely just cut it by hand so I don't mess the thing up... smile.gif I noticed you did not put any of the valves, EGR or other syuff on untill after installing it on the engine... any reason why? Just curious. I also have the exact same carb you mention and can't WAIT to see what this does for my engine when I add it to the new Summit cam and lifters I dropped in too! smile.gif

[Cliff]

When I installed a Torker on my 401 Spirit, the baffle was hitting the oil mod line. I removed the stock baffle and made one out of sheet metal that shielded the PCV valve but didn't interfere with the oil line. No special tools here - just bent the metal with my hands and cut with tin snips. I drilled holes in the bottom plate that was louvered in the stock baffle. The ere is a drain back area also, for ol that does get into the baffle. No probs. I also used paper gaskets (and always have), not the valley pan.

[badaboom]

DO you re-attach the heat shield from the old manifold to the new edelbrock in this case a SP2P
with rivets? Does it matter if the heat shield is removed from a 2 or 4 barrel stock intake manifold?
If you do not have the oil mod noted above, must you still - take the heat shield off the bottom of the old intake with a grinder of some sort (cutting the rivets that hold it in) Then put it on the new intake, this is VERY important to put on?

I will be using the full valley pan intake gasket.

[ December 18, 2003, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: badaboom ]

[billyrb]

use the shield, regardless of the oiling mod. Doesn't matter if 2 or 4 bbl. The rivets you need to use can be obtained from Edelbrock. Just email their tech department, and tell them you need the rivets to attach the oil baffle to one of their intakes. They are sending mine for free. VERY important to put that on. If you are doing a rebuild, you really SHOULD do the intake valley oiling modification. Your machine shop can do it for a few bucks while the engine is at their shop. Kit costs around $25. Email me for more info ryan@bjsoffroad.com

[badaboom]

billyrb
Thanks for the notes. Although I am not currently rebuilding the motor, so the oil mod would have to be done with the motor in the well. So I don't think I will be doing that. I guess I will be contacting Edelbrock concerning the rivets.
Do you just tap/hammer these rivets in or use a gun? Thanks again

[ December 18, 2003, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: badaboom ]

[AMX factor]

I actually used self tapping sheet metal screws can't remember the size but a hair bigger than the rivet holes. Clean the holes out with acetone then apply the heavy duty Loctite to the screw and install into the manifold. Don't use a drill use a hand screwdriver that way you don't overthighten and tear out the threads the screw just made for itself. I haven't had a prob with mine coming out adn my brother has been doing that for years.

[Stuka]

The edelbrock rivets (which come with their intakes) are just tapped in. They have a spiral semi thread, so they do twist in as they are tappped.

[ December 18, 2003, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: Stuka ]

[jode]

THe "rivets" that come with the Edelbrock ALum intakes are just a "screw" with a VERY lite thread pitch. IN other words, the threads go around the rivet about 1 time in the whole length of the rivet - so you just tap them in with a hammer and they rotate by themselves. You can easily use a drill to remove the old rivets on stock intakes.

I installed all the accoutrements on the intake before I installed the intake on the engine - I thought it was easier to do it on the bench than in the rig. Wurked four me! tongue.gif

[jode]

Leave it to Stuka to explain what I was trying to say in about half the words and twice the clarity lol :cool:

[Babalou]

I had this very same problem. Three friends helping me with my rebuild told me there was absolutely no need for a baffle or gasket with the Eddlebrock performer intake manifold. So I listened to the majority input. Not only was I sucking oil through the PCV it was getting sucked all the way up the oil filler neck and into the air filter. Once a week I would have to drain the oil from the air filter housing. I have since added a valley pan gasket but could not find a baffle at the time. Fortunately, the gasket seemed to do the trick.
Now if I can just figure out why the thing won't hold it's idle for more than a few days.

[Crazy_Jeepman]

I have used the fiber intake gaskets as I like them better on quite a few AMC engines. When I use them, I just move the PCV to the Valve cover.......No problems. I do use the heat shield if I do not block off the crossover on the intake.

[Cliff]

Ryan - you said to use the baffle regardless of the oiling mod. I agree, but some of the oil kits out there use large copper tubing (for max flow), and the stock baffle will not fit, nor will the valley pan gasket without major triming.

[badaboom]

I am beginning to get baffled about all this baffling.
I have Heard YES move it from the stock intake to the edelbrock
and I have heard
Rande
"I have seen two different kinds of intake gaskets. The full valley pan and just mating surface gaskets. I wonder if using the full valley pan style would prevent that from happening.

I'll find out. I installed my Edelbrock with the valley pan gasket and no baffle."

Desert Beast
"I didnt install that baffle and i have had no problems whatsoever w/ my intake swap."

Babalou
"I have since added a valley pan gasket but could not find a baffle at the time. Fortunately, the gasket seemed to do the trick."

I'm Baffled

Lets see what the results are from Rande and the full valley gasket. I have a feeling that this may play a roll in whether you must move the baffle/sheild.

[billyrb]

Cliff, with the oiling mod, you have a few options:
1. With the copper line, you can bend it out of the way for the most part, although there will be some slight interference.
2. You can use a braided stainless steel line that is flexible, making it that much easier.

You will, however, need to slightly trim the rear of the oil baffle for everything to work.

As for the valley pan, you can still use this. I took a ball-peen hammer and gently molded it so that it would fit over the oiling mod. Took a while, but it finally fit. Once I get it all together and working perfectly, I'll post.

[Al Johnson]

I'm running both the oil baffle on the bottom of my Performer intake and the valley pan gasket. The valley pan is just bent upward in the middle at the front end to clear the valley oil line mod.

Works fine, no oil burning or sucking anywhere. No problem. I used pop rivets to hold the baffle to the intake.

Al