View Full Version : Recentering H1 Rims and I need a nap...
...and some how I am going to get one.
That was hard work, 5 more to go.
Edit: Here is the waterjet cut center pic.
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/DCP_2816.jpg
The video of the rim cutting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si6KiUATcdk
The Waterjet runflat cutting is finally up and available.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOydJd4P5Wg
***I hate that sound, turn you volume down***
Casey wanted the vendor for the wheel centers.
http://www.cmperformancemachine.com/store/product.php?productid=16141&cat=251&page=1
Cheaper than Todd on PBB but email invoices from both companies came with trailworthy logo on them.
Both vendors were fast at shipping, both were poor (by my standards) with tracking info, but it's all here and good and I would buy from either again.
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/Wagoneer/HummerRim/DCP_2824.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/Wagoneer/HummerRim/DCP_2825.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/Wagoneer/HummerRim/DCP_2826.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/Wagoneer/HummerRim/DCP_2827.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/Wagoneer/HummerRim/DCP_2828.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/Wagoneer/HummerRim/DCP_2829.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/Wagoneer/HummerRim/DCP_2830.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/Wagoneer/HummerRim/DCP_2831.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/Wagoneer/HummerRim/DCP_2832.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/Wagoneer/HummerRim/DCP_2833.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/Wagoneer/HummerRim/DCP_2834.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/Wagoneer/HummerRim/DCP_2835.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/Wagoneer/HummerRim/DCP_2837.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/Wagoneer/HummerRim/DCP_2838.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/Wagoneer/HummerRim/DCP_2839.jpg
The new wheel nuts:
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/Wagoneer/HummerRim/hummernuts.jpg
Wheel nut part numbers:
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/Wagoneer/HummerRim/hummernutUPC.jpg
Nice work!
Where did you get the flanged nuts and how are they protected against rusting?
Nice work!
Where did you get the flanged nuts and how are they protected against rusting? Those are not the flanged lock nuts, just 1/2-20 from the hardware store.
I ordered some yesterday from Copper State (.35 ea) but they need to come out of Phx, be here Wed, the ones they are sending are zinc plated. I'll be happy to share the part numbers when they come.
I say 5 more because this is just the test bunny to see how pratical it is to deal with cutting down the rubber insert (1.5 hours) and to see how well they balance.
Casey
04-17-2010, 05:48 PM
:thumbsup: Nice job! :thumbsup:
One of the things I still have to get done. :banghead:
Where'd you get your centers?
azpackrat
04-17-2010, 06:50 PM
Nice work!
Where did you get the flanged nuts and how are they protected against rusting?
It's southern Arizona, gotta' have moisture for stuff to rust. :D
Yeah, yeah, yeah... I ordered zinc plated nuts from McMaster-Carr for my beadlocks as the steel nuts were rusting.
JeepMods
04-17-2010, 07:16 PM
Did you check for run-out? If so, what was your final run-out?
Kick-arse work man!!!
The Colonel
04-17-2010, 08:01 PM
Nice work, how wide are those now?
Kimbrough
04-17-2010, 08:06 PM
HOW IN THE WORLD DID YOU GET THAT RUBBER RUN FLAT CUT DOWN???
vintagetrks
04-17-2010, 08:22 PM
Awesome work Tad. :thumbsup: Can't wait to see them on your rig.
Did you check for run-out? If so, what was your final run-out?
Kick-arse work man!!!
.003 with a dial indicator mounted on the school shop wheel balancer they turn pretty darn true on a hub with the tire mounted also. We'll see how they balance next week if I can get some shop time again.
Nice work, how wide are those now?
They are stock width, 8.25" IIRC (not at home now).
Recentering them doesn't change the width.
HOW IN THE WORLD DID YOU GET THAT RUBBER RUN FLAT CUT DOWN???
Sawzall and large wood blade, I'm hoping I can waterjet cut the rest, that was hard work.
Awesome work Tad. :thumbsup: Can't wait to see them on your rig.
They are for the buggy, no need to run them on the wag.
Might mock them up there for a bit, but I have pretty new tires on the wag, no need to change them out.
JeepsAndGuns
04-18-2010, 06:31 AM
I will be doing the exact same thing to a set of 12 bolts in the future. I have the wheels, and what looks like the exact same centers. I have one question though. It appears to me, that there is a space betwen the new center and the flange that has the studs where water and/or mud can stand/collect without a way to drain out. It looks to me like if I was to cut some notches in the center right where you weld it, it would allow for the water to drain out.
What about you, Do you know what I am talking about?
I know exactly what you are talking about, looks like it will trap about 1" of water/muck in there. Haven't though much about what do do with that area. Couple of drain areas would help, not sure if it would help with rocks/sticks/ mud and such.
Looks easy enough to clean that area.
bigun
04-18-2010, 08:25 AM
Shipping to 87036?
jaber
04-18-2010, 08:27 AM
Nicely done Tad... :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
fulsizjeep
04-18-2010, 08:44 AM
Very nice as usual Tad. :thumbsup: It will be interesting to see how this buggy thing turns out. I sure could have used a nap yesterday. :p
jeeping1974
04-19-2010, 11:57 AM
NICE! :thumbsup:
jMedia
04-19-2010, 12:28 PM
From a newb point of view...may I ask.... what process is goin on in these pics? :fsj: still learnin'....:D
From a newb point of view...may I ask.... what process is goin on in these pics? :fsj: still learnin'....:D
I really should change the title, I was just dead tired from that round on Saturday.
Recentering H1 double beadlock rims and cutting down the rubber runflats.
The H1 rims have 7" of backspacing. Without running dually front hubs or wheel spacers the backspacing does not work for most axles.
The runflats stick up high enough that when aired down severly the runflat will make contact with the tire, that can damage the tire.
Yes, you can waterjet cut the rubber runflats :thumbsup:
It's not fast and it's a bit messy but it's not hard on this old body like using a sawzall was.
Film at Eleven (or when I can get home and upload it) :)
Songman
04-19-2010, 01:58 PM
I guess I should ask how the runflats work. I figured they had to make contact with the tire and that is how they worked - by keeping it from going all the way down into the rim.
In a nutshell (I didn't do a lot of research on this part) the runflat provides a means for a military vehicle to still roll without dragging the rim once a tire has been damaged. It's not meant to be a replacement, just a tool to get the passengers and vehicle out of harms way. They also serve as the anchor (?) for the double beadlock, anchoring the tire to the rim internally.
There a lot of people here who have way more knowledge than I do on this so don't be surprised if the above gets corrected real quick.
This has been done many different ways by many people. Having a very large military base here (actually several within 100 miles or so) means that surplus gets sold off and for awhile these are very cheap, as the supply dwindles the price goes up. The down side is that the rims are 16.5's and although there are some very good tires in that size avaiable, the selection is not what it used to be.
Etcetera
04-19-2010, 04:06 PM
There are guys on pirate running PVC beadlock inserts. Basically whatever diameter pvc pipe cut to the proper length. They are very light and cheap. I have a set of 12 bolts kicking around, maybe you've inspired me. If it wasn't for the hubs sticking out I'd run them stock on full width axles.
Gambler68
04-19-2010, 04:08 PM
What do 4 of the tires (without rims) fetch down there?
I love my H1s! Great set up.
There are guys on pirate running PVC beadlock inserts. Basically whatever diameter pvc pipe cut to the proper length. They are very light and cheap. I have a set of 12 bolts kicking around, maybe you've inspired me. If it wasn't for the hubs sticking out I'd run them stock on full width axles. I know about the PVC stuff, I've read all the Pirate stuff and way more.
It's got to have the correct bevel and be sized correctly. I live in a major town with many plumbing contacts, I asked, I'm not paying for 24' of that.
At $40 each plus shipping, I think there are more reasonable options that will work.
I'm just working with what works/happens for me.
What do 4 of the tires (without rims) fetch down there? Ryan,
Honestly I would not buy them, I think they are all 6-7 years old from the last production run date, best I see here is $75 for tire, runflat and rim, 60% tread they claim (the base hawks that buy in bulk here hate to disassemble or ship).
I collected and bought those tires in like '05 or something, at best it's a spare.
JeepsAndGuns
04-20-2010, 03:06 PM
I know exactly what you are talking about, looks like it will trap about 1" of water/muck in there. Haven't though much about what do do with that area. Couple of drain areas would help, not sure if it would help with rocks/sticks/ mud and such.
Looks easy enough to clean that area.
I had thought about before I welded the centers in, to cut some notches in them (about 4 evenly spaced ones) right where the weld is, allowing for the water to drain.
Etcetera
04-20-2010, 04:27 PM
I know about the PVC stuff, I've read all the Pirate stuff and way more.
It's got to have the correct bevel and be sized correctly. I live in a major town with many plumbing contacts, I asked, I'm not paying for 24' of that.
At $40 each plus shipping, I think there are more reasonable options that will work.
I'm just working with what works/happens for me.
I didn't realize it was that hard to get in small quantities. I've been spoiled, theres a place down the road that makes it. Everytime i've asked they have given me scrap pieces, they have a mountain of the stuff behind the place that they recycle. Mostly odd length pieces left from the end of a run. I've built speaker boxes, a telescope and a drum with the stuff. Maybe I need to find out what size is needed for the H1 rims and grab some.
$40 each is pretty expensive. Maybe I need to start selling them, lol.
...Maybe I need to start selling them, lol. You should.
Problem being that with the PVC it needs to be different widths for different tire sidewall thickness. From what I have read it's not that critical with the cut down rubber inserts since the rubber has a bit of give to it. Also, there is a correct bevel to it so the PVC inserts do not cut the tire bead, I don't know what that is or even how important it is, but I do not want to trash a $400 tire on a test bunny rim.
Etcetera
04-20-2010, 06:50 PM
The more I think about it, and went back and researched and read what you said it sounds like a pain. I have untouched rubber inserts and those big run flat things. I think when I do mine up I'll just do what you are doing.
No one uses the run flats do they? They must weigh 35 pounds each.
I had thought about before I welded the centers in, to cut some notches in them (about 4 evenly spaced ones) right where the weld is, allowing for the water to drain. Yea, I'm not too sure about it either.
Drain notches/holes will be fine I think, it's just not going to take care of the sand/gravel/rock mix here, even at 3/8" the holes are not going to clean out the big stuff.
I get sticks of all sizes crammed into this thing on some of the southwest trips I do, might be fine in your area.
EDIT:
Waterjet runflat cutting is finally up and available.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOydJd4P5Wg
EnigmaticEngineer
04-20-2010, 07:26 PM
You mention getting 'shop time'...could you hit me up with a PM and let me know what kind of shop you work at/for?
Thanks
...
No one uses the run flats do they? They must weigh 35 pounds each. I'm sure some folks do, it's just a super pain to get them into the tire. I can't imagine trying to get one out, but it's got to be easier with them cut down.
Although even with taking off 1 3/4" of the runflat they are still very hard to compress. I'm sure at some point I'll find/read something and the light bulb will go on.
You mention getting 'shop time'...could you hit me up with a PM and let me know what kind of shop you work at/for?
Thanks It's not a big secret around here Nathan.
I teach HS welding. Beggining, Community College credit and AWS certification levels, I just rarely get shop time for my junk.
This (the waterjet) is one of the areas we are looking at offering services for next school year. We've had the machine almost two years and it needs to start bringing in some revenue.
Getting the PVC in and out of the tire is not that difficult, turn it on end and pull the tire up. Plumbing supply here sold me 4 feet for $12 a foot. I cut with a skill saw and used a router for the edges. 6.75 is the width you want.
JeepsAndGuns
04-21-2010, 12:39 PM
I have the green PVC I got from usa6x6 when I got my centers. I was wondering how to get them in the tires myself, I had seen some ways and heard people say they are guarenteed for life, so if you break it, no problem. So I said screw it, and got a small bottle jack and some pieces of 2x4 cut to the width and started jacking, I kept going untill the thing looked like a ford ovel and stuck them into the tire. once I took the bottle jack out, they sprung back into shape. I was kinda expecting them to stay warped, but they didnt. The ones I got looked like they had put them in some type of large lathe, cause they cut the ID to match the angle of the tire beads. Though I have the inserts in the tires, I have yet to actually test fit them on the wheels...lol Hopefully they are not too wide.
I actually kind like the idea of the rubber one you have.
Getting the PVC in and out of the tire is not that difficult, turn it on end and pull the tire up. Plumbing supply here sold me 4 feet for $12 a foot. I cut with a skill saw and used a router for the edges. 6.75 is the width you want.
Very cool.
I get an ID of 16 7/8" and an OD of 17 7/16", can you verify that?
I'll have to locate my angle finder to figure out the bevel, it looks to be about 3/16".
I'd be more than willing to try anything easier for these.
Very cool.
I get an ID of 16 7/8" and an OD of 17 7/16", can you verify that?
I'll have to locate my angle finder to figure out the bevel, it looks to be about 3/16".
I'd be more than willing to try anything easier for these.
Take a look here, there might be some tricks to make your life easier.
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=112069
Got a couple of spare chunks laying around that I can verify your dimensions with.
Take a look here, there might be some tricks to make your life easier.
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=112069
Got a couple of spare chunks laying around that I can verify your dimensions with. Way easier, thank you.
I searched this board up and down and never found that.
Again, thank you very much.
Tad
BTW:
I have moved that to the archives, it needs to be saved.
I left a redirect here in Off-Road but the thread is in the archives under other,
(I guess we need a tire/rim archive section)
Etcetera
04-21-2010, 07:57 PM
Take a look here, there might be some tricks to make your life easier.
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=112069
Got a couple of spare chunks laying around that I can verify your dimensions with.
Thanks for digging that up. Tomorrow I will stop at my PVC place and see if I can get some. Looks easier than it sounded. Hmm, wonder how much to ship 30" of PVC. Might have to look that up.
jeepjerry
04-21-2010, 08:28 PM
Wow thats nice work!!!
billyrb
04-25-2010, 07:23 AM
like they say, assembling & getting a leak-free assembly requires a good bit of work for each tire/wheel, not even mentioning the set-up & welding you did. But to take them apart, holy mackerel you need to bring your man-card :)
Nice work Tad!
getlost4x4
04-25-2010, 07:53 AM
looks good. that's probably something i would never do to my rig. in the past 10 years i've only popped 3 beads that i can remember. but i usually only run 33 inch tires.
getting the mud out of those would suck. maybe a wet drive shop vac with lots of water in the wheel would work.:confused:
Maybe I just got lucky but my experience with H1 wheels is....
Strong
Leak free
easy to assemble but it does take time
Easier than weld on bead locks and does both beads
These are awsome wheels, don't be afraid. You will never burp another tire. I call it insurance.
AlsChopShop
04-27-2010, 03:04 PM
excellent write up tad!
i can't wait to do mine.....
Al
Well, it's taken me a bit to get back to this.
We finalized the jig and now we now have repeatability.
Nothing new here but we can do 4 rims in about 35 minutes, that includes squaring the jig and change out time between rims.
Quick 30 sec video with the jig:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPentlB2_GU
A few more pic's:
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/WaterJet/H1%20Rim%20Cutting/H1Jig1.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/WaterJet/H1%20Rim%20Cutting/H1Jig2.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s80/tadsal/WaterJet/H1%20Rim%20Cutting/H14Rims.jpg
Big pic's so I just left the links above.
Josh D
10-01-2010, 09:30 AM
Niiice! Is this going to be a new venture product line to add to the Tad perch's?
You'll have to let me know when you start working with aluminum wheels!:thumbsup:
Niiice! Is this going to be a new venture product line to add to the Tad perch's?
You'll have to let me know when you start working with aluminum wheels!:thumbsup:
Not sure what I could do with AL?
If you got some ideas shoot me a thought or two.
This is not for me (well, this set of wheels is :D and so is the Rockwell set I am building).
This would be a service my students would offer, the cutting that is, I really can't have them do any welding that would be on the road due to liability.
jeepdreamer
10-01-2010, 10:28 AM
So does this mean that you could easily set up a set ot 16.5" rims with a 6 on 5 1/2 bolt pattern with a custom offset? Are you going to manufacture these?
So does this mean that you could easily set up a set ot 16.5" rims with a 6 on 5 1/2 bolt pattern with a custom offset? Are you going to manufacture these?
Hi Ted,
No, we would not be manufacturing them, just doing the cutting. It would invlove getting the outer rim faces here, paying for the cost of cutting, then getting the cut faces returned to the customer.
Flat and pressed wheel centers are available in many patterns from several vendors (trailworthyfab, etc) although I think they all come from the same facility in Lansing, MI.
I think the most you can get out of the pressed centers is 3.5" of back spacing, although on mine the best I could make happen was 3.25"
jeepdreamer
10-01-2010, 10:49 AM
Ah, Ok...Thanks Tad. I'm gonna send you a PM on a different subject too...:)
AlsChopShop
10-01-2010, 01:02 PM
nice work tad, i might have to use you when the time comes!
why do you make the cut on the lip and not the flat part outside of that raised lip? strength?
Al
..strength?
Al
Exactly, when I posted the file I wanted to keep as much of that curve as possible for strength. So the cut is just enough to still allow easy access to the lug nuts.
JeepsAndGuns
10-01-2010, 05:09 PM
Its still amazing that water can cut steel like that. I would send mine out there but shipping would be killer, plus I'm broke:banghead:
... I would send mine out there but shipping would be killer, plus I'm broke:banghead:
We are starting to work with a local company that has many of the 12's and some 24 bolt rims (the 8 bolts are too tall to waterjet cut and being 1/8" material, not viable in my book).
My hope is:
One would be able to purchase from them, we would cut the faces, then they would ship the completed parts.
It's a hope at this point, but it might pan out.
If not, we'll move to plan B (I don't know what that is yet).
But if someone was local or close, we could deal directly.
Tigger4X
10-02-2010, 12:49 AM
SUBSCRIBED to your thread Tad. You've knocked another one right outta the park!! :thumbsup:
I'll have to email you when I'm ready to throw the D60/14 Bolt under the '67 J3000 I'm getting from Jaber. I want to do an SOA and would like to know if your shackle flip would work on it. Thanks!
Keep up the top notch work!
AlsChopShop
10-02-2010, 03:03 PM
We are starting to work with a local company that has many of the 12's and some 24 bolt rims (the 8 bolts are too tall to waterjet cut and being 1/8" material, not viable in my book).
My hope is:
One would be able to purchase from them, we would cut the faces, then they would ship the completed parts.
It's a hope at this point, but it might pan out.
If not, we'll move to plan B (I don't know what that is yet).
But if someone was local or close, we could deal directly.
the 8-bolts are taller.... wider? than the 12-bolts? and thicker material is news to me.
Al
I'll get some pic's Al, I have one a shop gave me for a test try.
Completely different animals in both construction and materials.
The wheel mounting surface is attached to the inner portion of the rim so I would need to cut this 10" tall item, not enough clearance on the grate for that height.
Maybe a shop with a lager machine could do it?
Could even be different types of 8-bolts, it's the first one in my possession so far, all mine are 12's.
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