See What happens?

[Bryan Niese]

I just never learn!! I could not find the problem with the dead electrical that I posted about previously, and the jeep is my everyday driver (plus the girlfriend wanted her car back). Sooo, (dont flame me too bad here) I took it to the dealer for repair. They found the problem (fusable link - exactly what all of you diagnosed for me http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~zeimet/ubb/redface.gif )& fixed it. When I took it in to the dealer I also told them that I suspected the water pump may be bad & could they check it out for me. I planned on replacing it myself this weekend if it was bad. Well, they called me this morning & said it was ready, and the bill was $450.00 dollars. What the F***??? Well, apparently they decided to REPLACE the water pump for me, rather than just diagnose it. OUCH http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~zeimet/ubb/frown.gif . I really dont mind working on the GW when I have the time & I know what the problem is. I just get too impatient sometimes. Oh well, just needed to vent. Hope you all have a better day than me!!

------------------
Donzi
1988 GW
Totally Stock

[ClarkGriswald]

Well I certianly would never flame you, but I will confirm that the dealerships are a bunch of bloodthirsty vultures playing the time game. Hm Chrysler pays 2 hours on this job, hmmm i can do it in one.. So they do that on purpose. Rush thru a job and probablyi screw it up in the hurry to beat the clock so they can cram in a whole bunch of other jobs that day and make as much money as possible. Strange that noone ever says. hmm you did 15 hours worth of work today in 8 hours whats up??. But that is also to theyre advantage because then when your part or work fails, you bring it back to them and go thru the whole ringer again. its worse than the health care system. Like vampire bats following a heard of cows around..
Sorry that they did that to ya. I would have gone in there personally and had them physically scared for theyre lives had they done that to me. At least there should have been a phone call "hello mister so and so. we checked out your water pump and it is goin bad would you like us to go ahead and fix that?" those days are long gone with the self serve gas stations. (except in oregon i suspect he he he)

------------------
88 Grand Wagoneer
D44's front\rear
Warn 20990 Lockouts
AMC 360
TF 727
NP 229--Soon to be replaced by an NP208 that currently inhabits my kitchen.

"I came, I saw, I typed some stuff!"

[Veepster]

hhhmmmm.....did you approve the repair and the amount?

I used to work as a service manager for a repair shop and we had to have verbal or written approval to do any repair...and the approval was based on the amount...so they would bring the car in with a problem and they would sign the invoice approving a certain amount.....if it cost more then we would have to get approval from the customer....if we did not have approval for the amount of the repair then they did NOT have to pay!!!

In California the auto repair industry is controlled by the Bureau of Automotive Repair(BAR)

If that occurred to me in California I would be on the phone to the BAR in a second!!!....and in CA the BAR is like the Gestapo! I have seen them walk up to a auto repair shop and chain the door shut....they are definitley a well run outfit.

I would take a good look at your invoice and read the fine print...what did you approve? if you did not approv the amount and the repair I would head to the service manager and if you do not get a reasonable response I would look in the phone book and find the government agency that regulates the auto repair industry....
GOOD LUCK!!

[MonsterMash]

What was the break down for the repairs? How much did it cost to get the fusable link fixed? What did they charge you for the water pump?
I've taken my rig into the dealer a couple of times. They are really good for diagnostics in my opinion, especially emmissions stuff, and things that few people care to comprehend.
I think I would have a talk with the service manager and at least tell him that you didn't ask for the repair and weren't notified of it, and have him show you where it is documented that you authorized it and go from there.

------------------
'84GW360--"Spinner"
And on the eighth day God created Jeep so man would not be bored.

[Bryan Niese]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MonsterMash:
What was the break down for the repairs? How much did it cost to get the fusable link fixed? What did they charge you for the water pump?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


For the Fusable Link: $60 diagnosis & labor, $4.31 in parts.

For the water pump: $210 for labor, $42 for the remanufactured water pump, $11.98 for anti-freeze, and $88.56 for a shroud.


I am definitly going back to talk to them about this. Why did they put a new shroud on? the old one was fine. Now I'm p***ed off. not only did they do an unauthorized repair but replaced a part that did not need replacing!!!


If there is any good news, it's that the water pump is much quieter now!! And the rough idle smoothed out considerably, that fusable link must have been going bad for quite some time.

[ClarkGriswald]

Grrrrrrrr!

Only thing I can think of hehe he he.. that really sucks in a big way. bummed for ya

------------------
88 Grand Wagoneer
D44's front\rear
Warn 20990 Lockouts
AMC 360
TF 727
NP 229--Soon to be replaced by an NP208 that currently inhabits my kitchen.

"I came, I saw, I typed some stuff!"

[trssho]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ClarkGriswald:
Well I certianly would never flame you, but I will confirm that the dealerships are a bunch of bloodthirsty vultures playing the time game. Hm Chrysler pays 2 hours on this job, hmmm i can do it in one.. So they do that on purpose. Rush thru a job and probablyi screw it up in the hurry to beat the clock so they can cram in a whole bunch of other jobs that day and make as much money as possible. Strange that noone ever says. hmm you did 15 hours worth of work today in 8 hours whats up??. But that is also to theyre advantage because then when your part or work fails, you bring it back to them and go thru the whole ringer again. its worse than the health care system. Like vampire bats following a heard of cows around..
Sorry that they did that to ya. I would have gone in there personally and had them physically scared for theyre lives had they done that to me. At least there should have been a phone call "hello mister so and so. we checked out your water pump and it is goin bad would you like us to go ahead and fix that?" those days are long gone with the self serve gas stations. (except in oregon i suspect he he he)

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WOW! Blood thirsty vulture eh. It just so happens that I am an automotive technician at a Chrysler dealership. Chrysler Gold and ASE Master. No where does it say in my certifications or job descriptions that I am a blood thirsty vulture. I make a fair living though I am by no means wealthy. ($50K/yr) I work 6 days a week and am on my feet from 7:30 am till 6:00 pm.. Because someone gets screwed by a repair facility on occasion, people like to start flaming a whole industry.
My advice in this situation would be to speak to the service manager and explain the fact you authorized no repair. Most likely you will get satisfaction. If you do not, ask for an appointment to speak to the managers Dictrict Factory rep. Then, you will almost certainly get satisfaction. I as a dealer employee can assure you this is not a common practice at our facility.
Best of luck, Andy

------------------
1989 GW Tan w/106K miles
1989 GW Blk Cherry 69k miles

[christopher]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by trssho:
WOW! Blood thirsty vulture eh. It just so happens that I am an automotive technician at a Chrysler dealership. Chrysler Gold and ASE Master. No where does it say in my certifications or job descriptions that I am a blood thirsty vulture. I make a fair living though I am by no means wealthy. ($50K/yr) I work 6 days a week and am on my feet from 7:30 am till 6:00 pm.. Because someone gets screwed by a repair facility on occasion, people like to start flaming a whole industry.
My advice in this situation would be to speak to the service manager and explain the fact you authorized no repair. Most likely you will get satisfaction. If you do not, ask for an appointment to speak to the managers Dictrict Factory rep. Then, you will almost certainly get satisfaction. I as a dealer employee can assure you this is not a common practice at our facility.
Best of luck, Andy

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I must whole heartedly disagree with you trssho. I personally have had my jeep at various dealers with problems you need diagnostic equipment to check and have been told I needed parts that I know I didn't need. I am not alone, everyone here has had a wrench stuck up their but by a dealer for somthing. I an not saying every dealer mechanic is a crook, I have also been helped above and beyond their duty. I don't trust mechanics because if I can find out why my jeep is broke a trained mechanic should be able to do what you ask and not tack on all kinds of other things to meet their general charge level they would like to meet. peace.

[trssho]

christopher,
What is a general charge level? I don't think this is a case of something being tacked on, but rather poor communication on the part of the dealership. ANd if you can find out whats wrong with your vehicle without help, and have brought it in and been recomended parts you know you don't need, then why do you go to the dealership in the first place?

------------------
1989 GW Tan w/106K miles
1989 GW Blk Cherry 69k miles

[ClarkGriswald]

Well I certainly meant no personal offense to you trssho and anyone else who might be offended by my message, and I appologize if any was taken. I just go by my personal experiences and mine have been pretty bad. I cant single out Dealerships either there are bad private repair shops out there as well as the good. Same goes for parts stores. I have only dealt personaly with dealerships and other shops\stores in the parts dept. as I have always done all my own work (necessity, the good ole kick in the butt)and have always relied on learning from friends and other more experienced folks or reading or whatever,and ultimatly this incredible forum. (there should be this kind of great info for everything ya own). But I have cringed time and time again at horror storys of auto repair. (unfortunatly this also gets me fixing everyones cars all the time cause I try to keep them from goin thru the gauntlet) but what can ya do.

------------------
88 Grand Wagoneer
D44's front\rear
Warn 20990 Lockouts
AMC 360
TF 727
NP 229--Soon to be replaced by an NP208 that currently inhabits my kitchen.

"I came, I saw, I typed some stuff!"

[JeepFreak]

Ok I have to jump in here to since I also worked as a tech for 6 years. Although not for Chrysler(Mitsubishi) I have worked on many Chryslers/Jeeps. I also made a decent living and wanted to be clear on the fact that the techs are not the ones you should be calling blood suckers. We just simply do the work. Am I to blame when someones crank sensor goes out and the only way to diagnose it is to read codes? I didn't manufacture the vechile. What I'm getting at is that 90% of the work I used to do as a tech was warranty work and the dealer is not a great deal for the older stuff. BUT if you compare shop rates per hour for Pep Boys to your local dealer you will probably find that there within 10-15 dollars of eachother. Now I know which I would rather take mine to.

------------------
JeepFreak

[JeepFreak]

Clark I agree with your last post and just wanted to clear up the fact that the tech does not set the dealers prices or practices. Every shop is gonna have bad techs just like some will have great ones. When you go to the dealer you have the right to talk to the tech and I have never seen a service manager yet that refused to let the customer talk to the tech. You get a better feeling meeting the tech and knowing who is working on your vechile. Then next time you need him you can request that he do the work. Just some ideas for the next time you need one.


------------------
JeepFreak

[98 bird of prey]

Hi Guys,
I am also a Dealer tech. I work with 11 others. Why do i tell you this? Because i would not let 1/2 of them touch my stuff. JeepFreak has gave you the key. Get to know a mechanic. let him know you. People are people, I go out of my way to help out MY customers. Others do not. I can not fix ever car that comes in. I will go out of my way for someone who comes in to see me. Rember anyone can be a "Mechniac" Yours should have all his ASE's and worked at the shop more that a few weeks. OK now lets talk about Salesmen. (just kidding)

------------------
Alvin D.

[Ralph]

One dealer I can highly recommend is Tony Pesce Chrysler in East Palestine, Ohio (south of Youngstown, not far from the PA border). The mechanic is Larry Smith, the service chief is Tony DiVencenzo, both have done excellent work for me, sometimes in a pinch, and really fair on price. They once did a brake job with parts I got at PepBoys (okay, I could've done it, but it was my birthday and after the party I had to drive the Jeep from Ohio to Texas). Another time I paid $15 for them to diagnose and replace a fusible link (yes, the same as Bryan's in this discussion).

There are two other dealers who've fixed my Jeep, and whom I would never trust again:

Petty's Jeep in Navarre, Ohio (south of Canton). Although I liked the salesman who sold me the Jeep (Dan Gonzalez), their service department totally took me for a ride, charging me $1200 to fix my A/C system ($600 for remanufactured compressor!) which lost its charge in two weeks, repair rusted brake lines, and fix the cruise control (replaced two vacuum hoses). That was in August & September '98 when I bought the vehicle.

The other one to avoid is Berry Chrysler in Corsicana, TX. During my trip to Texas I had a pushrod go through a rocker arm. They were the nearest dealer mechanic, right off the highway where my Jeep gave out. I had to eat a bill for $800 for their job on the heads and a remanufactured water pump, and the exhaust leaks I had from that point on drove me nuts to the point that I spent gobs of cash to replace the entire exhaust system.

Another piece of advice: Don't give your credit card number in advance, except to pay a specific amount as a deposit to begin the work. Insist upon presenting the card in person, that they swipe the card through their terminal (not just key in the numbers), and that you are presented a receipt to sign. If you have a debit card, insist upon using it as a debit card rather than a Visa or MC, so that you'll authorize a specific amount with your PIN number. I'm a credit card rep (sell Visa, MC, AmEx, Discover, DinersClub, debit, check
verification, ATM's, and all kinds of equipment).

[This message has been edited by Ralph (edited October 06, 2000).]

[scotty]

there are bad apple in every bushel http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~zeimet/ubb/wink.gif . im sorry to hear about your bad experience. id have been really p***ed too.to make it worse,you didnt even get a NEW pump for $42...



------------------
scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/welded amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

T18/dana 20 swap very soon
searching for dana 18 to replace the 20...

[JeepFreak]

Hey Scotty, where can I see a pic of this beast of yours? Sounds worth seeing.

------------------
JeepFreak

[reddog]

A few reminders for getting your car repaired anywhere other than your own driveway are:

1. ALWAYS request the old parts back. This helps discourage replacing parts unneccessarily - even if they thought about giving you some old parts from someone elses vehicle you have let them know that your paying attention to what they do.

2. ALWAYS specify only the repairs you have specified in WRITTING be done without your approvial. Do not tell them to "go ahead and fix it" without telling them exactly what to fix.

3. As previous posters have said get to know your mechanic - and if your unhappy about the way your being treated then COMPLAIN - starting with the dealer service manager -until your concerns are addressed to your satisfaction.

4. Get recommendations from people you trust as to good mechanics in your area. Also try the Auto Club and Better Business Bureau for recommendations and to check on complaints on a shop.


IMHO - many dealerships (not only Chrysler/Jeep) are "costly" places to repair a vehicle. For most people that have no clue how to pick up a wrench the dealers/repair shops have got them over a barrel. Also there are bad mechanics (not saying anyone here is not a good mechanic guys!!).

But in my experience (I live in Los Angeles) the Jeep dealers I have been to - about 5 different ones - are the most expensive place to get parts for any make/model of car I have ever owned. I suspect that most of the people that work in the dealers are like all people, some great, some horrid, but most in between the two. I believe that the dealers, not the mechanics, are the problem in that the dealers are the ones to determine the prices/charges. Whenever possible I avoid the Chrsler/Jeep dealers like the plauge now a days because I hate supporting anything that I feel is unfair, and I am sure there markup on parts is substantial. For instance a vacuum advance unit for the distributer at the dealer is $70.00 and a rebuilt distributor at Pep Boys is $59.00!!!

Sorry for the rant, I'll get off the soap box now...

Kerry

[RudyC]

Don't bash all dealers. Somehow Jeep dealers are more pricey since most of thier business are Grand Cherokee people who buy those $30+k suvs and have no problem paying for expensive repairs.
Thats one thing I loved about My Toyota and MAzda. I only went to the dealer (dealer was both Toyota/Mazda) and they were wonderfull with the stuff I was over my head with. The parts guy and the service manager knew me well a few times i needed some wery pricey parts and he "accidently" opened the packages for a huge discount. I know the local Dodge serv manager well too but I only send them my trucks for emmisions crap and wifes mini van for warranty work (need it to haul broken FSJ parts).
Pitch a ***** to the management there and damad satisfaction. If not go to corp office. Then don't do anymore business with them and find someone you trust.

[Narnian]

Nice thread.

I have been burned by mechanics so many times it's embarressing. I've really gotten the hang of working these problems out in the last few years.

I had a shop replace a timing chain, an alternator, AND a starter without asking my permission. The end result? I paid for none of it because I authorized none of it, and it didn't solve the problem.

I've learned that
A) You need to communicate with the mechanic AND the guy at the desk.
B) You need to be familiar with the mechanics of your vehicle.
C) You need to get on a first name basis with a mechanic you feel is qualified to work on your vehicle.

I have one shop I will take my Vette to, and another I will take the Jeep to. Neither are dealerships. Not because dealerships are horrible, but because the "experts" I work with don't work at dealerships.

[Bryan Niese]

Well, I went back to the dealer this morning and got some resolution. I spoke with the service manager and the tech who did the repairs. It seems that the tech broke the fan shroud when he removed it and they were replacing it at their expense, it was put on the bill in error so they refunded the cost of the shroud plus tax ($95). They were very appologetic about and didnt give any hassles. Plus, the tech wanted to show me why the water pump went bad. Seems the fan clutch is shot and the fan in very loose so it is spinning unbalanced which eventually led to premature failure of the water pump. Why was the fan clutch shot? Well it seems that the motor mount is bad when under hard acceleration the fan blades are hitting the fan shroud and warping the fan blades blah blah blah you can figure it out from here. So I left not nearly as mad as when I went in and got them to diagnose the underlying problem (without them fixing it!!) Any one replaced motor mounts before? I will tackle the job this weekend myself if it is not too big a deal.

[MonsterMash]

When I read your post I was thinking that maybe the mechanic busted your shroud. Well, accidents happen. What's inexcusable is that he lied to cover up his mistake and only confessed after he was called on it ( can you say "Hail to the Chief"). The dude tried to rip you off flat out and now claims he made an error. I know for sure had it been I who had broken your stuff, I would have made a point to tell my boss and you and I'd make a really big notation on your invoice. Crap like that really ticks me off! http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~zeimet/ubb/mad.gif

------------------
'84GW360--"Spinner"
And on the eighth day God created Jeep so man would not be bored.

[River Beast]

Everyone here has had good and bad experiences with mechs. just goes to show that ALL are not good nor are ALL bad you just have to find the RIGHT ONE FOR YOU.

JeepFreak and all,

Here is a link to ALOT of FSJ's with mods and other stuff... take a LONG look.. there's alot... but Scotty's rig is on the front page!!! http://home.off-road.com/~wagoneer/wild book mark it for future updates.

------------------
Todd
78 Wagoneer "River Beast"
360/TH400/QT
Dana 44's locked w/ 4.88's
soon to be 38x14.50 TSL- SX Swampers
7" SOA in front-7" Rear Shackle Inversion Mods
4" Skyjacker Softride
3" Trailmaster Bodylift
My FSJ site: http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life (http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life)
My E-mail: spazz4life@yahoo.com
"If you can't stop...SMILE as you go under!"

[MonsterMash]

It goes without saying that a person should use some discretion when choosing any business, however businesses have a responsibility to not condone unethical and downright fraudulent behaviour and to do more than give back the money that was stolen after they are caught. This is an example of the "character" issue we hear so much about in election years on a very personal level. http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~zeimet/ubb/frown.gif

------------------
'84GW360--"Spinner"
And on the eighth day God created Jeep so man would not be bored.