new QuadraTrac Brake Cones

[fulsizjeep]

I have been in discussion with a fella who has the resources to make new QuadraTrac brake cones. He is a machinist and plans to make a pair for his CJ7 QT. He is interested in possibly selling them if he can make like 20 at a time.

This is early planning, so there is no estimate of cost yet.

For those of you with QuadraTrac rigs: If you could buy new brake cones, would you be interested? Let's not consider price. Would you have any real interest in where this is going if you had a chance to buy a set?

Thanks

[Songman]

Can you enlighten those of us who don't know and tell us what they do?

[fulsizjeep]

The brake cones are a weak link in a QuadraTrac. There are two in each limited slip differential. It is fairly common to find the spline stripped out of the center after 30 something years.

http://jubileejeeps.org/quadratrac/rumbleguts/good_brakecone_hub.jpg

here is one stripped out:
http://jubileejeeps.org/quadratrac/badfrontbrakecone1.jpg

[Songman]

Ahhh... well as a recently new QT owner, I would have to say yes then.

[rustywagoneers_com]

Absolutely, unequivocally, and with unwavering certainty.

YES.

I cannot express how much I hope SOMEBODY does this.

I LOVE QT as a dirt/snow system. In fact, I consider it the absolute best.

I mean, Audi had a torsen center diff, but did they have a full-lock? A low range?

Yes.

[PlasticBoob]

GIMME GIMME!!! Eventual brake cone failure is what keeps me awake at night! http://home.off-road.com/%7Eplasticboob/faces/0worried.gif

[78 WIDETRAC]

Yes it would be something that would interest me. the q-trac must live on.

[mathman]

Would be interested.

[Green Giant]

Oh yeah!

[710 Burner]

Since I have aquired 2 of them, absolutely.

[tgreese]

Sounds like a great thing to me, even though I have not owned an automatic transmission for 20 years. Quadratrac CJ-7s are cool... I'm sure there would be a market for more than 20 pair.

[rmorit01]

Yes...interested...I have been stocking parts for a D20 conversion...but why if the parts are available?

[Tad]

I'd buy a set just to have for down the road someday and I'm sure he could market way more than 20.

[BBB]

I definitely would be. I've been using a QT for daily driver for a few months now and love it, but the noises it makes terrify me.

[PlasticBoob]

OKAY, HOLD THE PHONE! Who's the gear-driven tcase supporter who voted NO? :mad:

http://home.off-road.com/%7Eplasticboob/faces/ban.gif


BBB, check your chain tension.

[Jeepstress]

OKAY, HOLD THE PHONE! Who's the gear-driven tcase supporter who voted NO? :mad:

http://home.off-road.com/%7Eplasticboob/faces/ban.gif


LOL! I wondered that too! Who would vote NO to an unobtanium part becoming available!?!? :p

[BBB]

Thanks for the tip on the chain. Based on the delayed thump when going in reverse I definitely need to check it out before something bad happens.

[fulsizjeep]

Thanks for the tip on the chain. Based on the delayed thump when going in reverse I definitely need to check it out before something bad happens.The chain is one place you can get that symptom. Another is worn spline on the tranny tailshaft and connecting sun gear and spud shaft in the low range unit.

[fulsizjeep]

LOL! I wondered that too! Who would vote NO to an unobtanium part becoming available!?!? :pHuh... ETC has a 75 Wag so it likely has a QT unless he is a lucky one to have a T18 and D20. I have only ever seen one 75 set up with that tho...

[letank]

Put me in too. I would to have that old beast back to life..... it is easter after all, but it is April 1st too :-o

[Etcetera]

I voted no because it's going to cost more than I paid for the jeep for a pair of cones. If it turns out to be less expensive than I thought, I'll eat my words.

Mine has a part time kit, and I'm still getting rid of it.

[fulsizjeep]

;) No problem Eric. We all have decisions on where we are going with these crap boxes. :D

[Etcetera]

If the question had been is it a good idea, then I would have said yes. I'm just not interested.

[JeepsAndGuns]

I got rid of the q-trac years ago in favor of a T18. But I have always wondered what they are actualy made of? Are they made out of just mild steel or some type of brake pad type of material?

[Green Giant]

I got rid of the q-trac years ago in favor of a T18. But I have always wondered what they are actualy made of? Are they made out of just mild steel or some type of brake pad type of material?
You're running a T18 behind a TH400? :confused: How's that work?:D

[jeepfamilyoffive]

One vote for unobtanium...

[Wayne]

I say yes, can't run without them.

[Gambler68]

what about the the discs that ride in the cones?

[getlost4x4]

interested as well.

[sportsidedan]

count me in for a couple of sets...

[fulsizjeep]

Thanks for the feedback so far y'all.


what about the the discs that ride in the cones?The focus right now is on brake cones...

His interest is to keep his nice 79 CJ7 304/T400/QT as stock as possible. He is not very Internet savvy but he found my QT site last week and wondered if this might be of interest to others. He is in KY and says the wrecking yards around there hardly ever have any 30 something year old Jeeps and was tired of looking for QT ghosts. He didn't know the QT was put in a bunch of FSJs.

He can machine most the brake cone himself at his job with a lathe. He would have costs with his company for shop and equipment use but says it is much cheaper than contracting a shop to make them start to finish. He estimates it will take him about 10 hours to build a tool for cutting oiling grooves in the cone surface. The spline in the center would be farmed to another company that can do that part. It could take a few months to really go some where.

For the record, I am not looking to make any money on this. My goal is to help make them available if I can.

[seventynine]

The key will definitely be the cost. With the Mile Marker kit out there at around $500 I would think these would have to come in below that to be marketable.

That said...I'd rather have new cones than a part time kit. I like having full time 4WD. It's nice in the rain...nice on my crazy steep gravel driveway even without snow....etc.

I'm interested though I'm not sure that I need em yet with my current QT rig. Thanks for looking into this Flint!

Dean

[FSJ Guy]

what about the the discs that ride in the cones?

I would think you could source the Belleville springs from a supplier off the shelf. There's nothing especially special about them.

[Gambler68]

I would think you could source the Belleville springs from a supplier off the shelf. There's nothing especially special about them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belleville_washer

interesting..always thought they were also unobtaniom.

[SnowShoe]

If these become available...I can stop buying QT's for spares and parts...:dancingbanana: :dancingbanana: :dancingbanana: That's worth at least 3 Banana's....

[fulsizjeep]

Forum response is more favorable than I expected. :thumbsup: I talked to the machinist today. The 60 Rockwell steel will be about $200 for enough to make 8 brake cones. He seems to be very particular about his work and will only make a production run if he is satisfied with end product. We are going to stress test a set in the 76 Wag if they meet his specs.

[710 Burner]

Guess this means we will eventually see a new video of you cutting doughnuts in the pasture. :D

[fulsizjeep]

Guess this means we will eventually see a new video of you cutting doughnuts in the pasture. :DSSSHHH... I caught holy hell the last time I did that.

[Charlie_B]

Been away from the site for a while (apparently Im a seasonal poster). When the Jeep's under the tarp, got other things on my mind. But since Ive been perusing the forums the past few weeks, this is definitely one of the most pleasant posts Ive read. If the cones were reasonably priced, Id be willing to buy a set and pull my freshly rebuilt QT apart to replace the cones. Or just rebuild one of my others with new cones and have a rebuilt "questionable" spare.

Are we just talking about the cones themselves (inners)? Or we talking about the outers and inners? At one point I remember you (flint) posting that you didnt recommend mismatching cones/carriers. Would that still hold true with only new "inners"?

thank you for doing the legwork on this. Lack of available parts seems to be the main pitfall of the QT, IMO.

[fulsizjeep]

Charlie - You must have discipline that I lack. I am on here almost every day... PAD ;)

You bring up a good point. New brake cones will be pretty worthless if the old brake cones have ground up the cone surface inside the sprocket casing (diff housing).

Turns out the machinist had called me yesterday because he opened his QT up to find the the front brake cone had done just that and he is looking for sprocket casing, spider gears and spider gear shaft. He said he could make another sprocket casing but it would be cost prohibitive. I think I can help him with what he needs.

He was also quoted $400 for "good" brake cones from someone in CA recently. :eek: I told him I could buy 6 or 8 used QTs for that. He was quoted $450 for a "working" QT plus $150 core at a scrap yard in KY too. :eek: RARE! :p

[78 Arizona Chief]

Flint,
I am pretty sure I have a near-new looking used diff that I would not mind lending for trail and mock-up. I am floored that someone is actually looking into bringing parts back to the market for these. Thanks so much for getting involved.

Here is my 2 cents. The brake cones are only worth it if the diff case is in good shape. Typically, by this time, one or both of two things have happened to a QT diff. The splines on the brake cone have sheared off and/or the fluid wasn't changed often enough or the wrong fluid was used. If the second has happened, the diff most likely has severe scaring, and is not re-useable. Of all the 15 plus cases I have tore into, the wrong fluid scenario is the more common killer. Once the scaring occurs, it typically will increase the braking force necessary to 'differentiate' which then kills the soft splines of the cone.

From here on out, the availability of good rebuildable differential cases will continue to decline. Like I said, I have been through over 15 cases. Not including the two NOS cases I got, I have two good used diffs.

If it were me, these will always be a wear item as designed. My dream, is for someone to figure out how to machine a Detroit/Eaton TrueTrac helical gear limited slip diff (more than likely a Dana 30 size) to replace the QT diff. While the performance of the TrueTrac diff would not be quite on-par with the slip-stck nature of the QT, it would the closest thing I can think of that would outlast the rest of the case.

Sorry this is so wordy.
Kevin.

[Charlie_B]

^^that would be a great idea with the aftermarket diffs. But seems like it would be a handfull to adapt the chain sprocket to another diff.

Charlie - You must have discipline that I lack. I am on here almost every day... PAD
well...the bug is out of hibernation and its biting me on a regular basis. Im ready to get some paint on Goldie and get her going again. Im buying a house and REALLY not looking forward to moving the Jeep in 1000 pieces.. lol.

[fulsizjeep]

Im buying a house and REALLY not looking forward to moving the Jeep in 1000 pieces.. lol.THAT would be motivation. ;) We looked like a bunch of gypsy jeepers moving in here 5 years ago with all our junk. ;)


Kevin - All good stuff man. Thanks for the offer. Will keep that in mind. Let's see where this goes. Oh yeah, the differential in that shiny, clean case I got from you in 08 was totally trashed inside. I have 2 complete differentials in good used shape but I am not looking to let anything from those go anywhere quite yet. I have 3 QTs that have not been torn down and may get lucky and find good one here he can use. I have liked that differential idea you have since I first heard about it when we were lost out by Battle Axe. :D
http://www.frontier.net/%7Emystkblu/04cokeovens/battleaxe116.jpg

[HOOT]

Flint is this guy close to me? I have a NOS case and a NOS dif set up. Plus a dozen used cases if he needs something.


The NOS case should be behind the rebuilt 401 soon but for now it is the center piece on the coffee table.

By the way Yes I'd be interested in a set or more. I've been waiting to pull this case apart and take the cones into work and have our lead machinist give it a try.

[fulsizjeep]

HOOT - he is near Henderson about 200 miles... I thought you had an NOS QT. You will want to put new output shaft seals in it before using it. Ours leaked. No surprise I guess.