Front Shackle Reversal

[Super Chief]

There is a local off-road shop (T&J's 4WD in Orange) near my house that races FSJ's. They sell a front shackle reversal kit and claim it improves handling both on and off road. The kit alone costs about $280. It needs to be welded in for whatever that costs for those of us who can't weld yet. Any thoughts on ride handling etc. before I commit to anything.

Thanks, Rob

[Veepster]

keep us filled in! sounds interesting..

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Peace.............BartG

the Green Flash!
360 2v, TH400 QT with low
4" skyjacker Rancho 9000's
33x12.50 BFG KO's 8" American Racing Baja Rims
Thorley headers, 3" exhaust, Dyno Max
Infiniti power leather seats
50%Luxury Car, 50%Tractor
http://www.teamgodspeed.com

[porkchop]

I tried this and just couldn't get it to work right. If there is a kit I am interested!

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'67/'79 Wagoneer mix
“Old Timer”
Body of a 33 year old
Heart and legs of a 21 year old (not mine the Jeeps)
Spirit of a 1 year old.
360, Holley 500,TH400,QT,D44's F&R
SOA, 2" AAL's 32X11.50's.
Soon to have 3" body lift with some 35's or 36's

"I have a dream that one day FSJ's will be equal at every parts store."

[River Beast]

Sounds good... but remember, when you move the shackles to the rear, you are changing the pitch of the pinion angle and changing your steering geometry... unless their kit is made to compensate for this. Also, if it does compensate.... it will lower the brackets on the frame... thus lifting the front end higher than the rear.

Just thought I'ld mention this since I went thru a similar ordeal on my rear shackles when I inverted them.... speaking of the pitch on the pinion angle.

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Todd
78 Wagoneer, "River Beast"
360/TH400/QT
Dana 44's locked w/ 4.89's
39.50x15x15 Super Swamper TSL's
7" SOA in front-7" Rear Shackle Inversion Mods
4" Skyjacker Softride
3" Trailmaster Bodylift
My FSJ site: http://www.geocities.com/spazz4life (http://www.geocities.com/spazz4life)
My E-mail: monster_fsj@hotmail.com
"If you can't stop...SMILE as you go under!"

'93 3/4 ton 4x4 Suburban...a.k.a. "FSJ Hauler"

[scotty]

kit?what need is there for a kit? our shackle is the same size as its rear mount,all you have to is move it! if youre worried about the castor change,all you need to do is space the front hanger down from the frame with something as simple as a section of whatever size square tubing-prolly a distance not more than 2 inches or so.

the ride is mostly improved off road,since as the spring compresses,the wheel now travles back,away from the object your going over,not into it,like it does with a front mounted shackle. on road ride is usually not much affected.

i guess their "kit" may do other things ,so its hard to comment.see if you can find out what it comes with,cause i really cant imagine a need for it.you could get front end geometry back in shape with less than $10 worth of scrap metal.

i was thinking of doing this to mine,but decided to wait,since it is better for me and my limited lift for the wheel to move forward-space at the rear of the wheelwell is real tight. if i ever do a SOA ill reverse the shackles at the same time.

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scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/welded amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

T18/dana-spicer 18 with drum E brake and PTO swap very soon
searching for offset QT rear and PTO winch

[Teach]

Just curious, wouldn't you want the axle to move forward into an obstacle to gain as much power as you could?


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Teach
'76 Wagoneer
360,Q-T,Edlebrock Intake/carb, D44's, 3.07, really big after market gas tank!
"If it ain't one thing, it's another...."

[scotty]

with the weight of the vehicle,there is usually plenty of traction on the compressing tire,so moving the tire forward doesnt give you any extra traction,it just makes it harder to get over http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif



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scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/welded amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

T18/dana-spicer 18 with drum E brake and PTO swap very soon
searching for offset QT rear and PTO winch

[River Beast]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by scotty:
...if youre worried about the castor change,all you need to do is space the front hanger down from the frame with something as simple as a section of whatever size square tubing-prolly a distance not more than 2 inches or so.

the ride is mostly improved off road,since as the spring compresses,the wheel now travles back,away from the object your going over,not into it,like it does with a front mounted shackle. on road ride is usually not much affected.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Scotty...that's what I was talkin' about.... spacing down the front shackle mounts.....hmmmmm... you would think that just enuf would be the distance betweeen the bolt holes of rthe shackle, right? This would compensate for the shackle in the rear... I haven't completely welded my front axle yet from the SOA... I may dig deeper into this to see if I can do it without gaining too much more on the front lift... I HATE SQUATIN' TRUCKS!!! http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/mad.gif My guess is that you remove the mounting points from the frame and relocate them on the 2-2.5" box steel you would weld to the frame. I will have to look closer when I get home from work.

Since my front end is not completely welded, I will be able to adjust it after completing this reversal if I choose to do so... http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/tongue.gif

This also would improve your approach angle of opstacles.... the shackles would not be hanging in the way... another plus. http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/tongue.gif

One more thing.... I was under the impression (from what others have stated) that the "inch worm" style of spring mounting (that is... the shackles are on opposite ends and flex as a push-pull) were better for obstacles cuz is throws you over... for lack of better terminology..... your thoughts on this theory http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/confused.gif? You seem to have a way with words, Scotty.... illaborate if you can, thanks. http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/wink.gif


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Todd
78 Wagoneer, "River Beast"
360/TH400/QT
Dana 44's locked w/ 4.89's
39.50x15x15 Super Swamper TSL's
7" SOA in front-7" Rear Shackle Inversion Mods
4" Skyjacker Softride
3" Trailmaster Bodylift
My FSJ site: http://www.geocities.com/spazz4life (http://www.geocities.com/spazz4life)
My E-mail: monster_fsj@hotmail.com
"If you can't stop...SMILE as you go under!"

'93 3/4 ton 4x4 Suburban...a.k.a. "FSJ Hauler"

[mulepic]

Hi All,
As I am getting ready to do my SOA, I was also considering a shackle reversal. But, I discovered a product from www.afcoracing.com (http://www.afcoracing.com) called a leaf slidder. It replaces the shackle but still allow movement of the leaf w/o a hanger dangling in front. Has anyone used these before? Also an FYI for those considering and SOA, afco also sells bolt on spring perches. Hopefully this helps eliminate much of the welding needed. One more thing, afco has leaf springs pivot bushings which helps in articulation. Has anyone used any of these things? Thanks, Matt

[JeepFreak]

I tried the pivot perches on my 75 wag and they made my on road driving very vauge. The truck would wander endlessly. On the plus side though when I went on the trail they tend to take the creeks and groans out of the body. This probably is do to the fact that the leaves can articulate better. Unless you have a track bar I wouldnt use the pivot perches.

Oopps http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/frown.gif, I messed up on my post. I wasn't using pivot perches I was using pivot hangers. The pivot perches might work better who know's. You might run into complications on a none SOA axle though. The ones I got where from Sams OffRoad in Tulsa, OK. They were intended for another truck but I just matched up my hanger to get the best fit.

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JeepFreak



[This message has been edited by JeepFreak (edited December 05, 2000).]

[Super Chief]

For those interested... the kit is two brackets which need to be welded to the front of the frame rails. The brackets drop down and add about 1" to 1-1/2" of lift above stock. They are completely boxed in and can be connected via a cross-bar (possibly made of 2" tubing incorporating a front receiver, tow hooks and attachments for a tow bar).
The rear is a new shackle hanger and shackle which actually looks stronger than the stock shackle. The additional lift would be perfect for me since my ancient 2-1/2" Rancho lift has sagged about 1-1/2" over the past 21 years.
This shop does very good work but is a bit pricey. And so ... the debate goes on.

[scotty]

has anyone ever broken a stock shackle? how much stronger does it need to be? basically you are paying for a front drop bracket to compensate for the castor change of simply movig the shackle.that still sounds like an awful lot of money http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/eek.gif for something that could be accomplished with less than $10 worth of box steel from the scrap yard.you could run a piece of tubing from one box to the other,just the same,if ya wanted to.

RB,thats exactly what i was talkig about,simply space the front hanger down from the frame-i thnk the distance of the shackle is all ya need.if you could still do it easily, and have the room at the rear of your wheelwells,id say its a worthwhile modification and well worth you time to investigate the possibility further.im not sure what you mean by inchworming,or push pulling.with the rear of the spring fixed,when you compress the springs,the entire axle assembly move forward,and you are affectively pushing the axle into the object tht your climbimg over.if the front is fixed,the axle moves backward,and away from the object,therefore requiring less effort from the suspension and engine,and therefore,a nicer ride. unless,of course,you are driving backwards http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif ,in which case you are better off with the front shackle.but im sure very few of us spend enuff tie driving backwards to worry about backwards performance...

ill have to chek out this spring slider.spring pivots are very useful when you get lots of droop,and the springs resistance to further twisting becomes the limitig factor in dropping further. on a dedicated trail rig with tons of travle,they are helpful,but prolly will decrease the streetability- i dont think that theyve got much place on something that is ever driven above 10 mph.

i also dont know about a "bolt on" spring perch-i think id like to know that mine are solidly welded!

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scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/welded amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

T18/dana-spicer 18 with drum E brake and PTO swap very soon
searching for offset QT rear and PTO winch


[This message has been edited by scotty (edited December 06, 2000).]

[Teach]

Hey, has anyone seen/used the "Revolver" shackle system? I've been contimplating useing that, as it gives a lot of articulation without changing your stock ride.

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Teach
'76 Wagoneer
360,Q-T,Edlebrock Intake/carb, D44's, 3.07, really big after market gas tank!
"If it ain't one thing, it's another...."