Dual Stick

[Kaiser Volfe]

Does anyone know of anybody who has converted a Dana 20 to dual stick, I know it is pretty easy with a Dana 18, but would it be possible to do the same with a Dana 20?

[porkchop]

Talk to scotty, he has figured out a way to do it. I am not sure if he has done it yet or not, but he has figured out a way.

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'67/'79 Wagoneer mix
“Old Timer”
Body of a 33 year old
Heart and legs of a 21 year old (not mine the Jeeps)
Spirit of a 1 year old.
360, Holley 500,TH400,QT,D44's F&R
SOA, 2" AAL's 32X11.50's.
Soon to have 3" body lift with some 35's or 36's

"I have a dream that one day FSJ's will be equal at every parts store."

[PAJEEPER]

If I'm correct I think Scotty has done a dual stick conversion, if not he'll know how to though. The D20 shifter from a CJ looks like it would be more adaptable to dual stick. It has a a single lever that works just like a dual would, maybe all you'd have to do is make to levers for it and some spacers. If you know what one looks like you can figure out what I mean.

Good luck with those parts I sold you, they should work great with a little work.

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Greg

'81 J10
258,727,208
custom bumpers 4" pipe f,square tube r.
Yellow powdercoated wheels.

'77 J20
360 4BBL,400,Q-trac.
Heavy duty steel flatbed.
Currently under construction with new frame.

[Slippery]

NOTE: This is a cut-n-paste of one of scotty's earlier posts on this subject. Saves him the trouble of typing another long-winded reply...Jason K.

the twin stick shifter simply lets you engage the front and rear wheels seperately. the dana 20,like all gear driven cases is basically set up with a high,neutral,low for the front output,and seperate high,neutral,low for the rear output. the xfer case can be modified to move the shift rails seperately,letting you have a variety of combos.for example you can put the front in neutral,the rear in low.you might want to do this to pullsomething real heavy on the street without worring obout drivetrain bind in 4lo.if you have a front lcoker you could do this to make steering on easier with the locked front axle,since it isnt recieving power,it will unlock and let you turn. say you get stuck in some sand or poop mud with the front on solid ground.put the front in low and the rear in neutral.now you can spin your front tires and work the wheels back and forth without the rear digging you in further. with some cases it is even possible to put the front in high and the rear in neutral.now you have a big,front wheel drive truck for winter driving.or if youbreak the rear driveshaft,you can limp home in fwd.
i dont know why there is not a kit for the dana 20.it works the same as the 300.i have modified a cj dana 20 by removing the 2 interlock pills between the shift rails,and made the 2 shift levers using parts of the stock shifter. the only bad thing about this is that is now possible to put it in front low,rear high. as you can imagine,this cannot be good if you try and drive it this way.the cj case could be modified by grinding on the shift rails and leaving the interlock pills in.this would let you move the shift rails independently from low to neutral,or high to neutral,but not all the way from low to high.

ok,now the sj 20 is alittle different.this is what ive got on the t18 ill be installing into my grand wag soon.its got the U shifter box.the front part,where the shifter bolts on and the shift rails come thru is different. i have not dissassembled one of these cases yet,but initial experiments with another one with the shifter box removed reveal that the 2 levers allready move independently,so there must not be any interlock pills n there. the case ive got ican move both levers all three clicks seperately,so it looks like no internal mods will be neccessary.all you need to do is remove the goofy shifter box and make a pivot for 2 levers to swing on,and connect them to the 2 shift rails.voila- fwd low range at your disposal.makes for some really cool backwards doughnuts in a muddy field or snowy parking lot be aware that the wagoneer case will let you accidentally put the front and rear in high and low at the same time,so always make sure the shifters are where you think they are before you start moving.i dont think that this will bother me a whole lot,but if it does you it shouldnt be hard to find a cj case to modify so that this is not an option.

im gonna have my frined weld me up a little thing to use my currie shifters since i paid $149 for them. the shifters could be very easily made with some flat iron and steel rod.

im sure it would be much easier to do with the xfer out,but it certainly could be done with it still in.at least with the sj case. the cj case will have to be dissassembled,and therefore removed.

hope this helps.let me know if you need any further details.

[Tubro]

Get on www.binderbulletin.org (http://www.binderbulletin.org) and look under FAQ - Trannys. It talks about a Dana 20 twin stick and gives instuctions on how to do it. I know its an IHC site (I have a scout) but its still a D20

Brian Renfro

[scotty]

a cool link. the scout dana 20 has interlock pills like the cj,that need to be reomved.the link above describes how to modify the shift rails to use stock spicer 18 shifters,which is cool if you want to buy new stock shifters,or can actually find someone who is willing to sell them off of his xfer(unlikely).keep in mind that factory scout 18/20 dual stick shifters may be different than the jeep variety,so the mods described my not be exactly as outlined for mating scout or jeep 18 shifters to jeep 20 shift rails.

the FSJ dana 20 with the u shaped shifter needs no internal mods whatsoever.if you disconnect the shaft rails from the shifter box,you will discover that you can move bothe shift rails independently of one another to all 3 positions. you can retain the u shifter box,leaving it hooked to one or the other shift rails,and simply add another lever,or you can scrap it all together and make your own levers.the rails are notched to accept the currie shifter linkage,you just need to make a bracket to bolt the levers to. you could also do something as simple as a couple pieces of flat iron,let them pivot on a big bolt thats bolted to the tube that the shifter box is attached to.

the 18 allready has a dual stick shifter,and all you have to do is remove an interlock pill.but alas,it does not work the same way as the 20. http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/frown.gif instead of front H N L,and rear H N L you have a range lever for H N L,and a "front axle lever" that engages or disengages the front axle.you have no FWD options with the 18-just RWD high,RWD low,4WD high and 4WD low. i was pretty bummed to discover this,but im pretty sure the addational low range,PTO,and drum E brake will make up for no FWD. at least thats what im tellin my self http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif i wish i could find a PTO for a dana 20-a built 20 with aftermarket 3.15 low range,twin sticks,and a PTO would be the ultimate.

oh well.thanx for the clip slippery,let me know if theres any other ques about 20 twin sticks...


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scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/welded amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

T18/dana-spicer 18 with drum E brake and PTO swap very soon
searching for offset QT rear and PTO winch

[Kaiser Volfe]

I wasn't sure if there was something internal that prevented them from engaging front and rear seperately. I was toying with the idea of a dual stick t-case, but now I am going to do it.I just got a chance to disassemble the D20 and clean it up in preparation for powder coating. I am
going to make some shift levers and start to look for shift boots.

[WINGO]

I just found out the hard way why the NP229 is not a good off-road x-case.

I got into some real thick mud on Saturday with the front end real deep in mud. The NP229 was transfering power to the front wheels that had no traction to get out. Hours later using a 4,000 # come-a-long, jack and logs I was out. Ruined the rest of the day hunting.

Would installing a NP 208 or a Dana 18, 20 or 300 solve this problem that the NP229 has in transfering power to the axel with no traction? I know the NP208 will bolt up to the 727 on my '84 GW but how about the other x-cases?

I am not concerned about full time 4 wheel drive. We hardly get any snow in NJ. I just need good off-road capability for sand and mud. The truck is used in the woods and the beach mostly......no hardcore wheelin.

Thanks!



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WINGO
Vineland, NJ
USA
1984 GW 360
Rough Country/Heckethorn 2 1/4" AAL (actual lift)
Rough Country/Heckethorn Nitro 9000 Shocks

[scotty]

wingo-were you in 4hi? if so,the power can overcome the VC and float to the axle with the least traction,just like any other limited slip diff. did you try 4lo? in 4lo,the front/rear axles are supposed to be locked like any other part time case.if you were locked in 4lo and had no front wheels,you had a broken axle,or internal xfer case trouble,cause you should have been able to get at least 1 front and 1 rear spinning locked in 4lo http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif

the 208 is the best swap option for you.it has same driver side diff,will bolt onto the 727,and the only real mod is a longer rear shaft.the 300 will also bolt up,but youll need to swap front ends and lift it at least 4 inches for transmission pan/front driveshaft clearance.

kaiser,you will be very happy with a dual stick shifter.there are alot of situations where being able to engage the front/rear axles independently come in really handy,especially if you have fornt/rear lockers.

no internal or external mods neccessary to wagoneer case-simply make the shifters. the only thing that you have to worry about with the wagoneer case is accidentally putting the fornt in high,rear in low-as this will obviously cause much carnage(been at the big word store again),but not too big a deal,i dont think,just double check the neutral position whenever youre intending for one or the other to be in neutral.

definately let use know how it turns out,or if ya have any other ques.youll LOVE them muddy field,backwards doughnuts! http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/welded amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

T18/dana-spicer 18 with drum E brake and PTO swap very soon
searching for offset QT rear and PTO winch

[seth]

great thread but none of the links are showing up. does anyone have a 'how to' posted on the web somehwere on how to make your own j shift dana 20 twinstick?

Thanks!!
Seth

[chr1s]

w0w

you bought a post up from 6 YEARS AGO

[seth]

nice huh? :D I tried searching and couldn't come up with ANYTHING...no links. This was the most relivant.

[joe]

nice huh? :D I tried searching and couldn't come up with ANYTHING...no links. This was the most relivant.

Try "D20 twin stick" and "D20 twinstick". That should net you 100 or so threads.

[seth]

I appreciate that, thanks!

[n2ri]

both have Dana 20 twinsticks, I do not know what gears Pathfinder used but best I can tell my right stick is LOW/NUTRAL/HIGH
and my left stick is 2wd rear/4wd

I can't seem to get 3 positions on left stick.

also when driving above 45 mph I hear a low rithmick howl like gears or bearing slack.

front hubs unlocked.

Mitch

[shackwrrr]

them quadravans sound like they have 18s not 20s. when the intermediate shaft goes on a 18 you will get that howl and thats the shift pattern on a 18.

I have twin sticks on the 20 and i also moved my shifter closer to the seat for easier shifting. Mines nothing more than a design close to gsmikie's design but with a sleve instead of a sheetmetal clamp. I Like it alot better than the old Jtype. I can get some pictures later.

[n2ri]

nope definatly D20s I have owned a few scouts too and D18 vs d20 big differance in looks.

I think I may still have the front drive line ingaged making the noise but duno.

Mitch

[shackwrrr]

then im guessing that there are pills in then shift rails preventing you from full use of the twin stick..

[tyrodtom]

I just installed a twin stick on my D20. The FSJ D20 doesn't have pills that keep you from shifting one stick if the other is in certain positions. All you have to do to install it is take the trany tunnel cover off, you might could do it thru the transfer case boot hole. The left stick is for the rear end forward is low, toward you for neutral, then high. The right stick is for the front axle same positions. Mine was made by JB Custom Fabrications in Salem, Oregon. I used it, and it works fine. It required me rethreading the shift rods about 1.5 in. more, but other than that a easy bolt on.
It wouldn't be too hard to make one, the critical demension would be having the shift rods exactly in front of the shift stubs coming out of the transfer case with no side thrust.

[shackwrrr]

The one hes talking about not having all three selection on the one side is in his quadravan

[wickedwagon767]

http://www.jbfab.net/

nice stainless twin stick shifters that are vehicle specific

[wickedwagon767]

a built 20 with aftermarket 3.15 low range,twin sticks,and a PTO would be the ultimate.



Don't forget the 32spline rear outputshaft and Tri County Gear's case 'girdle' to help with torque flex ;)

[shackwrrr]

heres mine I got it from a member here that had it made. as you can see i moved it back. you can see in the pictures how it is made.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e357/shackwrrr/100_0019.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e357/shackwrrr/100_0020.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e357/shackwrrr/100_0021.jpg