The cs144 is a madman! Do it, you won't regret it! (pics on pg. 2)

[freeincolorado]

I just finished installing the cs144 alternator in my GW. The stock alternator was on death's door for about a week now. I had to jump it every morning. So I ponyed up and put a cs144 in it. I just gotta say this thing is a beast. I can run my heater on high with my headlights on and it does not flich. For two weeks now I was not able to do that.

If anybody is on the fence about doing this, I highly recommend doing it. My bracket only needed a small tweak to fit. I kind of cheaped out on the adaptor and just pulled one from the junkyard and spliced it in to the stock wiring. The stock belts worked. I had to change out the pulley, but that was no problem. All in all a rather easy upgrade.:D :thumbsup:

Edit: I ran a heavy gauge wire (#2) from the charge stud directly to the battery.

[Elliott]

When I get around to doing the Taurus fan I am planning on the 144.

[fsjman1978]

What vehicle did u get the cs144 out of? Was it clocked right?

[freeincolorado]

Fsjman-
I got a remaned unit from the 'Zone. 1994 Cadillac Deville Concours w/o heated windshield. The clocking worked fine. Although I think you can reclock these like the cs130.

Elliot-
I saw lots of Taurus's (Taurusi?) At the junkyard today some with the 3.8. I thought about pulling a fan, but not sure if I really need it yet. Maybe with the 401.

[gte901m]

I saw lots of Taurus's (Taurusi?) :thumbsup:

[fsjman1978]

Thanks for the info.

[freeincolorado]

You're welcome. Do the swap it is the best mod I've done yet.

[Elliott]

Fsjman-
I got a remaned unit from the 'Zone. 1994 Cadillac Deville Concours w/o heated windshield. The clocking worked fine. Although I think you can reclock these like the cs130.

Elliot-
I saw lots of Taurus's (Taurusi?) At the junkyard today some with the 3.8. I thought about pulling a fan, but not sure if I really need it yet. Maybe with the 401.

Yeah.... I've picked up a couple. I trip over Taurusi all day in the yards here.

[freeincolorado]

Yeah, they are everywhere. Saw a Chevy pickup with a Buick 455 in it and a Ford pickup with a 429 pretty cool stuff there. Only saw two J-trucks ('72 and '74) and a couple of Waggy's. All of them had been picked over pretty good.

[Woodchomper]

I kind of cheaped out on the adaptor and just pulled one from the junkyard and spliced it in to the stock wiring.
freeincolorado...When you spliced in the adapter plug you got from the junkyard, did you add a resistor to the yellow (exciter) wire?

Here is a link to the NAPA part no. EC82 adapter for converting from an SI alternator to a CS alternator. http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?R=ECHEC82_0215724426

If you look closely at the images you will see a section of heat-shrink, covering the resistor on the yellow wire. I don't remember the resistor value exactly but for some reason 300 ohms comes to mind.

If you didn't use a resistor you should verify that you are getting the proper voltage at idle.

When I did my swap a couple years ago I remember feeling ripped-off for paying a GM stealership $19.00 for a pigtail wire with a resistor in it. Although, the nice thing about the pigtail is that you can just remove it if you ever decide to go back to an SI alternator.

Rich B.

[freeincolorado]

freeincolorado...When you spliced in the adapter plug you got from the junkyard, did you add a resistor to the yellow (exciter) wire?

Here is a link to the NAPA part no. EC82 adapter for converting from an SI alternator to a CS alternator. http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?R=ECHEC82_0215724426

If you look closely at the images you will see a section of heat-shrink, covering the resistor on the yellow wire. I don't remember the resistor value exactly but for some reason 300 ohms comes to mind.

If you didn't use a resistor you should verify that you are getting the proper voltage at idle.

When I did my swap a couple years ago I remember feeling ripped-off for paying a GM stealership $19.00 for a pigtail wire with a resistor in it. Although, the nice thing about the pigtail is that you can just remove it if you ever decide to go back to an SI alternator.

Rich B.

No I did not...I get 14.8 volts at idle. There is no yellow wire on my harness. On the factory side it is red and black. On the connector I got at the junkyard the wires are brown and black. Should I be worried? I'm not concerned with swapping back to an si, I bought a lifetime warranty alternator.:confused:

[68glad]

No I did not...I get 14.8 volts at idle. There is no yellow wire on my harness. On the factory side it is red and black. On the connector I got at the junkyard the wires are brown and black. Should I be worried? I'm not concerned with swapping back to an si, I bought a lifetime warranty alternator.:confused:

Looks like Tom & I did the exact same thing over the weekend. I too spliced the wires together. The big wire from the alt. pigtail went with the big one on my original connector & the little wire with the little wire. Has correct voltage @ idle & with everything on. It does take 1-2 seconds for it to come up to 14v tho. Unless the majority here says were gonna fry something... (I admittedly know jack about electrical stuff) I'm sticking with my bu*t connectors.

[gte901m]

If my memory serves me correct, the brown exciter wire (small wire) is a resistence wire, not a normal copper wire. It starts at the bulk head connector, and runs to the alternator connector.

You could verify with a multimeter between the bulk head connector and the alternator connector.

So I'm not sure you need the extra resistor.

[Subic Jeep]

There are 2 types of cs 144 alternator (pigtail) 1985.

http://www.delcoremy.com/pdfs/service_manuals/legacy/1G-291.pdf


Identified by markings on the regulator case:

P - L - F - S = Fig 3 - Using terminal "L"


P - L - I - S = Fig 3A - Using terminal "L" & "I"


http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff267/SubicJeep/Alternator/CS144wiring.jpg

Go here:

http://oljeep.com/gw/alt/edge_Alternator_Theory.html

[68glad]

If my memory serves me correct, the brown exciter wire (small wire) is a resistence wire, not a normal copper wire. It starts at the bulk head connector, and runs to the alternator connector.

You could verify with a multimeter between the bulk head connector and the alternator connector.

So I'm not sure you need the extra resistor.

Perfect!!! Thats exactly what I got. Tom prolly has the same thing.

[Woodchomper]

Originally Posted by gte901m
If my memory serves me correct, the brown exciter wire (small wire) is a resistence wire, not a normal copper wire. It starts at the bulk head connector, and runs to the alternator connector.

You could verify with a multimeter between the bulk head connector and the alternator connector.

On my '91 Wag I measured the resistance wire and it was something like 15 Ohms. That is why I used the pigtail with the resistor in it.

Subic Jeep...I forgot how great Joe's article on alternator theory was. What a well written document. When I did my conversion I actually used Joe's artcle as a reference. Joe's article, as well as the Delco reference link you supplied says the alternator should have a resistance between 35 ohms (@5 Watts) to 500 Ohms (@1/2 Watt) on the L terminal. The whole reason for having a resistor in the pigtail was for vehicles (like ours) that do not have an alternator warning lamp.

freeincolorado & 68glad...sounds like you alternators are working fine. Even though the "literature" says you need a minimum of 35 Ohms on the L terminal, your rigs either have the proper resistance (unlike my '91) or your alternators are working with something less than 35 ohms. If your alternators are getting something less than 35 ohms then the only problem I can see with that is that if you replace an alternator in the future, the regulator on the new alternator might not turn on. However, maybe the truth is that the CS alternators only need 15 ohms to turn the regulator on.

One last comment, changing to a heavier gauge wire on the alternator's output terminal to the battery is very good idea since the CS alternator is capable of putting out much more current.

[freeincolorado]

From what has been posted, I am not concerned with the setup I am using. I looked at lots of cs connectors at the junkyard. I saw both types, the one I am using seems to be the correct one and I am inclined to agree with 68glad. My alternator charges at idle and the voltage only varies by .1 volts max between idle and say 2500-3000 rpm. I also agree with Woodchomper about wiring the alternator directly to the battery.

[wickedwagon767]

Doh!

I pulled a CS144 off of a '91 eldorado with the 4.9L today,but forgot to check whether or not it had the heated windshield or not.

[will e]

When I did the swap on my waggy, I had issues with the adjuster bracket and I needed a longer belt size.

Can you snap a pic of your install and how you lined up the bracket?

[shackwrrr]

whats the difference between the heated vs. non heated windsheild? Wouldnt the alternator be a higher output with the heated one?

[freeincolorado]

The heated windshield version has more than one charge stud is what I have heard.

Some pics:
http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad345/freeincolorado/CIMG0580.jpg

I used two washers to take up the space leftover from the bracket.
http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad345/freeincolorado/CIMG0579.jpg

The belt adjustment is maxed out. I need shorter belts.
http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad345/freeincolorado/CIMG0581.jpg

[AMC-J/20]

CS144 !? looks like a general purpose Garden variety GM alternator to me ;)

Am i missing some thing :confused:

Mike

[freeincolorado]

It is a general purpose, garden variety GM alternator. It just fits FSJ's without many modifications and puts out 140 amps.

[AMC-J/20]

Direct bolt in ? . . . Now that is some thing to get excited about :thumbsup:

Mostly gotta Modify some thing to swap a GM alt in :(

Mike

[freeincolorado]

The adjustment bracket needs to bent a little and the top/rear bracket gets removed. There is an harness that plugs in between the alternator and the stock wiring. I did not use the adapter. I pulled a plug from the junkyard and spliced it in. The alternator has been on for a week now and have had no issues.

EDIT: I wouldnt call it a direct bolt in... but still easy enough to do.

[grand_wag_85]

I'll have to do this on the J10

[freeincolorado]

Sean-
I'd highly recommend doing the swap.

Anybody try this on a 258?

[Mark Wilde]

Just curious, why did you not run the second belt?

[mdill]

whats the difference between the heated vs. non heated windsheild? Wouldnt the alternator be a higher output with the heated one?

I think the heated windshield runs directly off the 3 phase un-rectified stator winding output, so the alt has three extra output studs. (From memory)
If you guy's want some lower brackets, let me know I can bend up some more.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v680/mdill/bracket/DSCF0062.jpg

Another batch of brackets has been built: and are available (e-coated this time :) )
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v680/mdill/CS144_bracket/Bracket013.jpg


Mike D.

[mdill]

Here is a picture of a heated window one, notice the three extra studs on the back.

http://images.wrenchead.com/smartpages/partinfo_resize/DUS/321-1050.jpg

[freeincolorado]

Just curious, why did you not run the second belt?
These pics are from when I was testing everything out. I'll be replacing all of the belts this weekend.

[Wagoneerlover]

freeincolorado


Hey Freeincolorado,

When I did this swap I tried several different belts. many manufacturers claim different lengths etc. Anyway I settled on belts made by gates. The gates belts actually are slightly longer than some of the other brands out there and they fit perfectly and give you the extra length you need so that you actually have adjustment room and you dont need herculean strength to get the cs-144 on and adjusted. I have the part number for the gates brand belts if you want it. (Need to look under the hood I forgot the number.)

[babywag]

I just did this swap yesterday, the factory length belts were almost right on for me.
~1/2" left on the adjustment arm.

I think a longer belt we be no good, in most cases a shorter belt would be ideal.

[freeincolorado]

Does anyone make a new rear bracket? Is it even needed? I'm o.k. with not using one. I think that the two remaining brackets are strong enough.

I'm just curious what others have done.

[Allen78J20]

Is there a quick and dirty version of this swap? I read Joe's article and my head was swimming. Very informative, but I was overwhelmed. I need something like:


"Get this alternator, hook up these wires,do this and that so your truck wont catch fire, test."

[freeincolorado]

Is there a quick and dirty version of this swap? I read Joe's article and my head was swimming. Very informative, but I was overwhelmed. I need something like:


"Get this alternator, hook up these wires,do this and that so your truck wont catch fire, test."

You could say I did it quick and dirty.:D

[Serious Johnson]

When I did the swap on my waggy, I had issues with the adjuster bracket and I needed a longer belt size.

Can you snap a pic of your install and how you lined up the bracket?

When I did mine ('83 Wagoneer Limited), I started with a CS-130, because I didn't feel like fiddling with the brackets. Turned out that my particular vehicle originally had an optional alternator (15-SI?), and the CS-130 wouldn't fit (not enough bracket travel inward). Got a CS-144 ($68 from local alternator shop) and that dropped right in with only the pigtail and a couple of different fasteners. The stock belts were a perfect fit.

S.J.

[wickedwagon767]

I think the heated windshield runs directly off the 3 phase un-rectified stator winding output, so the alt has three extra output studs. (From memory)
If you guy's want some lower brackets, let me know I can bend up some more.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v680/mdill/bracket/DSCF0062.jpg
Mike D.

I'd like a lower bracket mdill :thumbsup:

[Prime]

My uncle has a couple of junk caddies, and I am goin to try to locate one tomorrow. Are there any makings or numbers to identify one? CS144 maybe or ? I dont want to sweet talk him out of the wrong one, since he doent like to get rid of anything.

[babywag]

My uncle has a couple of junk caddies, and I am goin to try to locate one tomorrow. Are there any makings or numbers to identify one? CS144 maybe or ? I dont want to sweet talk him out of the wrong one, since he doent like to get rid of anything.

I installed one the other day from a '91 Caddy Fleetwood
Years/models are in my thread...
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=115527

[Prime]

ok I am sorry and don't mean to turn this into a TECH deal, but I am seriously goin to do this swap. One more question for yall. I read some where here that you have to do a amp meter by pass before installing one of these into a older jeep? I have a 79 chief and plan on just splicing this thing in, but don't want to burn anything up in the process. Can any one give me some input on this please ?

[freeincolorado]

Yes DO the ammeter bypass. By all that is good we don't need another Jeep bbq.

[Prime]

any suggestions on what to do? I have no idea on what to do. That meter only works when it wants any way so it really doesn't hurt my feeling to by pass it, I just need to know how. HEELLPPP PLLEEAAASEE, before I burn my freshly painted chief.

[Hankrod]

Prime, search - amp meter bypass - . Yes you must do it with the cs144. Some will say connect the wires together under the dash, I say don't do that! bypass them before they go into the cab. Hankrod

[mdill]

DO NOT !! just do the under dash by-pass if you are going to put a 140+ Amp CS144 under the hood !
The 10 ga X ~15 foot loop of the stock charging circuit is not up to task for 94Amps much less 140 Amps.
(Try and jump start your friend, goose the throttle and watch your fusible link go POP !!)

There is a number of ways to fix the issue: (All involve disabling the stock Amp meter, so add a Volt meter)

One cheap and low tech way (maybe not the 100% best but acceptably OK way, as far as I can see)

Fold back tie off secure and insulate the stock red output wire of the stock alternator. (make sure this wire can not short out as it will be +12 all the time, with only the yellow wire fusible link between it and the battery, if it shorts out it will leave you dead in the water)

Do the standard Amp meter bypass (put both the Yellow and red wires on the ammeter on one of the studs, take your pick on which stud to use, just clean and tighten the connection so they make good secure contact)
The yellow wire will now be the main and only power feed to the fuse panel, it is protected by a fusible link close to the battery.

Make a new alt output wire of 6ga (GM figured 6ga was good enough, some have used as large as 2ga which is way overkill) or greater with an inline fuse or fusible link (your choice) to go between the alt output and the battery solenoid stud.

With 6ga wire of maybe 2 feet in lenght you have knocked the charging loop reistance down by a factor of ~10 vs, the stock setup.

Mike D.

[Chief Gunner]

Silly question, but I didn't really think about it till now. I have an '86 GW with a volt meter. If I did this conversion (which I plan to do soon), how does the factory wiring handle the extra amps? I am gonna get my hands on one soon and I don't want to create a big mess under the hood. Sounds like the big wiring issue is more from the ammeter issue, but I just wanted to make sure I was on the right track.

[mdill]

For 86+ all you really need to do is delete the current alt output wire and link from the harness, and replace it with larger gauge wire and link/fuse.

Note: Any under hood wire should have the correct insulation,

I beleive NAPA has a kit that has a oversized output wire and fuse block, I don't have the part # off the top of my head though.


Mike D.

[710 Burner]

Prime, search - amp meter bypass - . Yes you must do it with the cs144. Some will say connect the wires together under the dash, I say don't do that! bypass them before they go into the cab. Hankrod

A meter that measures current draw in Amperes is actually called an Ammeter, so you should search that too.

[Prime]

I got one, I think??????? here is a picture.

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/prime01/th_CIMG0125.jpg
It has 1 plug with 3 wires and 1 stud
http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/prime01/CIMG0125.jpg?t=1264029873

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/prime01/th_CIMG0126.jpg
Thats the plug with 3 wires coming out.
http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/prime01/CIMG0126.jpg?t=1264030155

Now my question is, is this the right one? and if (please let it be it) it is, how do I wire it in? which wire goes to what? Which ones do I use? I posted the link under the pictures, it show a close up in case yall need it.

[mdill]

Looks like it should work, look at the previous page on what wire you need to add a resistor to.

Mike D>

[Prime]

Ok I am feeling kind of dumb :confused: and dont really have a clue right now so if anybody can give me alittle bit more info on what to do, i would really appreciated it. I can make some sense of the schimatics on page 1 but i really dont want to burn up my Chief, Help Please.

[freeincolorado]

Prime-
If I was you I would get the adpater harness. Eclhlin part #ec82.

[Prime]

http://partimages2.genpt.com/partimages/103116.jpg (http://www.napaonline.com/NOLPPSE/%28S%281yg2bm2pslm2qh55koigen55%29%29/Detail.aspx?R=ECHEC82_0215724431#)

Ok, so does this turn it in to a plug and play type? and this Eclhlin part #ec82 will work with my 79 Chief ? I am real sorry to bother yall, and I sure feel like a idiot but I just want to get it right the first time.
__________________

[Prime]

I got it :D , and I am sorry for all the questions. I will be installing this monster tomorrow. Thank yall.

[manimal]

I went to MAD Electrical's web site and followed the "NEW" system for GM cars/trucks,and rewired my GW. I used 8g from the output post on the alt to the distribution block I installed,then ran the exciter wire(brown)to a 194 bulb/socket that I integrated into the dash and the other side of the socket to a switched 12v supply(according to the owner of MAD this is how GM intended to excite the CS series alt's....He was also one of the engineers that designed the CS alt's). The red is the voltage sensing wire. I ran it to the distribution block also. To keep the battery 'charged' I ran a 10g from the distribution block to the + side of the starter solenoid. I used appropriate sized fusible links for all power wires.
The alternators job is to power the vehicle when running......not to charge the battery. It will "top-off" the battery after started. So that means the battery's job is mainly for starting...NOT running. I can take pics tomorrow if anyone wants.

[Hankrod]

I used the NAPA adaptor #ec82. I think the cost was about $28.00 and it had a .5K ohm resistor in line with the yellow wire. I completely removed the factory resistor wire, which was about 15 ohms. I replaced the factory resistor wire with a piece or #14 stranded wire.

Oh by the way - Burner thanks for correcting me on my spelling, nice contribution to the subject. ...................................Hankrod

[Prime]

gentleman once again thank yall, and MANIMAL brother some pictures would be awesome, not only for my self but for others in the future aswell.

[710 Burner]

Your welcome, however that was not my intent. I have seen it called amp meter, ammeter, and amp gauge here, so a person interested in searching for this should keep that in mind.

[manimal]

gentleman once again thank yall, and MANIMAL brother some pictures would be awesome, not only for my self but for others in the future aswell.
Here are a few pics. I took all the main power supply wires and shortened them ,added new fusible links and relocated them from teh starter solenoid to the new distribution block. If anyone has any questions,I will be happy to answer them. I also included pics of my headlight relays.
http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp29/manimal-70/0121100740a.jpg
http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp29/manimal-70/0121100740b.jpg
http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp29/manimal-70/0121100740c.jpg
http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp29/manimal-70/0121100741a.jpg

[Prime]

Ok gentleman, I ordered the plug from napa they didnt have it instock. Now I am goin to do the amp bypass, when yall refer to the STUD, yall are talking about the the 2 studs behind the amp meter on the dash right? Again I feel dumb I really dont want to burn my Chief up :eek: . And is that it? After I place the 2 wires on the same stud, and plug in the adapter on the alternator plug, mount it and it should work right?

[mdill]

Ok gentleman, I ordered the plug from napa they didnt have it instock. Now I am goin to do the amp bypass, when yall refer to the STUD, yall are talking about the the 2 studs behind the amp meter on the dash right? Again I feel dumb I really dont want to burn my Chief up :eek: . And is that it? After I place the 2 wires on the same stud, and plug in the adapter on the alternator plug, mount it and it should work right?

Yeah, move both wires over to one or the other of the TWO studs, does not matter which one, your pick.

Mike D.

[Prime]

Thank you brother, I am goin to start first thing in the morning :thumbsup:

[Woodchomper]

Originally Posted by manimal
...ran the exciter wire(brown)to a 194 bulb/socket that I integrated into the dash and the other side of the socket to a switched 12v supply...
manimal...If you look at Subic Jeep's post (Figure 3) you can see a resistor in parallel with the bulb on the wire going to the alternator's L terminal (exciter wire). My understanding is that the resistor is there to keep the alternator working if the bulb fails. If you did not use a resistor (in parallel) with your 194 bulb/socket, you will loose the exciter voltage to the alternator if your bulb goes out.


Originally Posted by mdill
DO NOT !! just do the under dash by-pass if you are going to put a 140+ Amp CS144 under the hood ! The 10 ga X ~15 foot loop of the stock charging circuit is not up to task for 94Amps much less 140 Amps.

mdill...What a great comment. I couldn't agree more. The ammeter wiring used in older FSJs needs to be updated (preferrably re-routed) to handle the extra current when doing this mod.

Rich B.

[GI-John]

I found mine today on one of our training areason Ft Dix. :D It came out of a 94 Deville. I'm not sure if this has been posted before, but here is an excellent video that teaches you how to rebuild a CS144

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riYZssdSmXY&feature=related

John

[manimal]

If you run a resistor,wouldn't it be too much resistance? I doubt that the bulb would ever burn out.
The way mine works is when the alternator fails,the bulb lights-up. When you go to start the car,the bulb lights up until it is started. Once started,the bulb goes out unless there is a problem with the alt. If the bulb does not come on whe the key is turned,simply change the bulb and try again.

[gte901m]

I think the heated windshield runs directly off the 3 phase un-rectified stator winding output, so the alt has three extra output studs.

I wonder if it would be possible to use a heated windshield version and rig up a 110V AC outlet. That would come in handy. Any electrical gurus want to comment?

[Woodchomper]

manimal...somewhere I read the lifespan of a 194 bulb is 2500 hours. So you are safe on the bulb burning out unless you have the same luck I do on my Jeeps. Anyway, just carry a spare bulb.

[gte901m]

any suggestions on what to do? I have no idea on what to do. That meter only works when it wants any way so it really doesn't hurt my feeling to by pass it, I just need to know how. HEELLPPP PLLEEAAASEE, before I burn my freshly painted chief.

Here is my 2 cents on how to do it.

The first diagram shows how the stock charging wiring is laided out. Power from the alternator travels through a red 10ga wire, where is passes through the firewall (bulk head connector). Once inside the cab, the red 10ga wire runs into a splice with several other large 10ga wires. These wires feed other items, such as the fuse block, ignition switch, etc. From the "big splice", the red 10ga wire runs to the amp meter. From the amp meter, a yellow 10ga wire runs back to the bulk head connector, into the engine bay, and to the starter solenoid, where it picks up battery power.

So, power from the alternator has to run through the 10ga red wire, into the cab, through the amp meter, through the 10ga yellow wire, back into the engine bay, and finally back to the starter solenoid where it sends power to the battery (to keep it charged).

Figure 1. Stock wiring.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff166/gte901m/untitled.jpg

What happens when you put a high output alternator on with the stock wiring, is that you have 20+ feet of old 10ga wiring (red and yellow). This wiring can't handle the flow of current, and over heats, melts, and starts a fire. The amp meter itself can't handle the current flow either, and it can also catch fire.

If you just combine the yellow and red wires on a single post at the back of the amp meter, you only eliminate the amp meter from the equation. You are still left with the 20+ feet of 10ga wire the current from the alternator has to flow through to get to the battery.

Here is my take on how to remedy the problem. In the next figure, you unplug the bulk head connector on the fire wall, and move the yellow 10ga engine bay wire so it connects with the red 10ga wire that runs inside the cab. Then run a "new" 6 ga wire (red in my picture) from the alternator stud to the starter solenoid. You can then remove the yellow 10ga wire inside the cab that runs from the amp meter to the bulk head connector (or just leave it, it won't be connected to a power source). The red 10ga wire inside the cab that runs to the amp meter will now be powered from the battery, so you will need to either tap it up (easy way), or trace it back to the "big spice" in the wiring harnes and cut it out (and retape the splice). Figure 2 shows the red 10ga wire from the amp meter removed.

Figure 2. amp meter bypass.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff166/gte901m/untitled2.jpg

If you want to add a light for the alternator, you need to remove the brown resistance wire that runs from the bulk head connector to the plug on the alternator. You will need to replace it with a normal wire. You then need to find the brown wire inside the cab and splice in your light.

Figure 3. alt light addition.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff166/gte901m/untitled3.jpg

[wickedwagon767]

I found mine today on one of our training areason Ft Dix. :D It came out of a 94 Deville. I'm not sure if this has been posted before, but here is an excellent video that teaches you how to rebuild a CS144

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riYZssdSmXY&feature=related

John

very good video for replacing the bridge rectifier and associated parts in the back-half of the case,but I also watched "part 2" and at the end when he reassembled the two halves he spun the pulley and mentioned not wanting to feel any 'rubbing' during the spin.

Well, the CS144 I picked from a '91 Eldorado 4.9L has some 'rubbing' or friction when I spin it. I'd like to find another video of his that deals with addressing that issue.

[ThisGuyUKnow]

Here is my 2 cents on how to do it.


Ok I have been following this thread for a while and now I am getting confused. Since my Wagon is an 86 plus and has a volt meter instead of amp meter then I should be able to wire this straight into my system without having to worry about burning up the stock wiring?

[manimal]

Ok I have been following this thread for a while and now I am getting confused. Since my Wagon is an 86 plus and has a volt meter instead of amp meter then I should be able to wire this straight into my system without having to worry about burning up the stock wiring?
You dont have to worry about burning your car down,but the gauge does not have enough resistance to excite the alternator,either install a resistor in line or a 194 bulb/socket. I suggest you checkout MADelectrical.com and talk to Mark(I think that's his name) He is VERY informative on these cs alternators. Good Luck

[mdill]

More of the tension brackets are available

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?p=1064289#post1064289

[serehill]

I bought a Wrangler 225 amp with external regulator on it off of CL Saturday. This thing generates 125 amps at idle :eek: the voltage is adjustable It's a 144 on steroids.

[mdill]

I bought a Wrangler 225 amp with external regulator on it off of CL Saturday. This thing generates 125 amps at idle :eek: the voltage is adjustable It's a 144 on steroids.

I think I can hear your belts squealing from here :D .

Mike D.

[Joe Guilbeau]

If my memory serves me correct, the brown exciter wire (small wire) is a resistence wire, not a normal copper wire. It starts at the bulk head connector, and runs to the alternator connector.

You could verify with a multimeter between the bulk head connector and the alternator connector.

So I'm not sure you need the extra resistor.

That is a correct recalled memory occurance, originally it was Ni-Chrome wire of such length as to provide 15.3 Ohms of resistance on the 12Vdc feed to bias the regulator (give the correct voltage drop) on the 10-SI and 12-SI alternators the correct bias.

The CS-144 takes a 300-350 Ohm resistance on most regulators to operate correctly, and the adapters from NAPA almost certainly contain the correct resistor inside them.

Without the correct bias for the regulators on all alternators, we risk either undercharging (low battery conditions) or worse overcharging (excessive heat, and wear and tear on the battery as well as outgassing).

Just set them up right, now the thing to remember is that pulling from the junkyard, you have no idea what regulator might have been put in the unit as it almost certainly has been rebuilt.

To get a bullet proof system, replace the regulator and recitifier diodes along with the brushes and the 10mm bearing (alternator specific, some earlier CS-144's used a smaller bearing as well as the CS-130's).

I posted a link to a video that shows step by step how to re-build the CS-144. Just call Transpo up and talk to the sales guys, tell them how you drive. Based upon how much charge you want at specific RPM's they can select the best regulator for you particular needs.... some folks rock-crawl and do not use the Jeep on the street, others are almost stock, some may just idle up mining roads and need the full 14.8Vdc at 1200 rpm.

It is the regulator that controls when the alternator charges and stops charging. Just select the correct regulator based upon Transpo sales personell and you will be set to go.

[Joe Guilbeau]

manimal...If you look at Subic Jeep's post (Figure 3) you can see a resistor in parallel with the bulb on the wire going to the alternator's L terminal (exciter wire). My understanding is that the resistor is there to keep the alternator working if the bulb fails. If you did not use a resistor (in parallel) with your 194 bulb/socket, you will loose the exciter voltage to the alternator if your bulb goes out.
Rich B.

Outstanding!!!

[mdill]

To add a little more confusion as to what the "right" voltage the regulator should be set to.

http://landiss.com/battery.htm


Mike D.

[Joe Guilbeau]

very good video for replacing the bridge rectifier and associated parts in the back-half of the case,but I also watched "part 2" and at the end when he reassembled the two halves he spun the pulley and mentioned not wanting to feel any 'rubbing' during the spin.

Well, the CS144 I picked from a '91 Eldorado 4.9L has some 'rubbing' or friction when I spin it. I'd like to find another video of his that deals with addressing that issue.

Should not rub, yours has either bad brushes or a bad bearing (these are the most likely culprits), once those are replaced and everythig else looks OK, then you will be good to go, go ahead and replace the rectifier and regulator as well.

[mdill]

Should not rub, yours has either bad brushes or a bad bearing (these are the most likely culprits), once those are replaced and everythig else looks OK, then you will be good to go, go ahead and replace the rectifier and regulator as well.

There should be a wee bit of rub, the brushes are rubbing on the slip rings and do drag, but it should be light and smooth.

Mike D.

[68glad]

[quote=gte901m]Here is my 2 cents on how to do it.


Figure 1. Stock wiring.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff166/gte901m/untitled.jpg

What happens when you put a high output alternator on with the stock wiring, is that you have 20+ feet of old 10ga wiring (red and yellow). This wiring can't handle the flow of current, and over heats, melts, and starts a fire. The amp meter itself can't handle the current flow either, and it can also catch fire.

If you just combine the yellow and red wires on a single post at the back of the amp meter, you only eliminate the amp meter from the equation. You are still left with the 20+ feet of 10ga wire the current from the alternator has to flow through to get to the battery.

Here is my take on how to remedy the problem. In the next figure, you unplug the bulk head connector on the fire wall, and move the yellow 10ga engine bay wire so it connects with the red 10ga wire that runs inside the cab. Then run a "new" 6 ga wire (red in my picture) from the alternator stud to the starter solenoid. You can then remove the yellow 10ga wire inside the cab that runs from the amp meter to the bulk head connector (or just leave it, it won't be connected to a power source). The red 10ga wire inside the cab that runs to the amp meter will now be powered from the battery, so you will need to either tap it up (easy way), or trace it back to the "big spice" in the wiring harnes and cut it out (and retape the splice). Figure 2 shows the red 10ga wire from the amp meter removed.

Figure 2. amp meter bypass.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff166/gte901m/untitled2.jpg




Please forgive me if this is a "not so smart question". I'm a dork when it comes to wiring. Figure 2 shows the wires spliced together at the firewall thus eliminating the "loop" for the ammeter. Why can't the red wire on the back of the alternator just be moved to the solenoid thus skipping having to splice the wires back together? Also, by putting the 10g wire & the new 6g wire on the same post on the solenoid, won't the 10g wire still be taking whatever current the new 6g wire can dish out? Told you i'm a electrical dork.:)

[gte901m]

Please forgive me if this is a "not so smart question". I'm a dork when it comes to wiring. Figure 2 shows the wires spliced together at the firewall thus eliminating the "loop" for the ammeter. Why can't the red wire on the back of the alternator just be moved to the solenoid thus skipping having to splice the wires back together? Also, by putting the 10g wire & the new 6g wire on the same post on the solenoid, won't the 10g wire still be taking whatever current the new 6g wire can dish out? Told you i'm a electrical dork.:)

Is this what you mean?
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff166/gte901m/untitled-1.jpg

If so, then yes, it would work. The amp meter would not work correctly. You could essentially remove the yellow wires all together. The key thing to remember is that most people add a CS144 because they want to run extra electrical stuff, such as lights, fans, and what not. When adding these things, have them pull power off the battery, solenoid post, or alternator post. You don't want to add a bunch of stuff to the factory fuse block, because it is still powered by the old 10ga wire.

[68glad]

Yep, thats exactly what I meant. So by having the 10g attached to the solenoid, rather than the back of the alternator, your not really pushing 140amp through it (10g) if thats what the alt. is cranking out?

edit: also, yes, elininate the yellow all together

[gte901m]

Yep, thats exactly what I meant. So by having the 10g attached to the solenoid, rather than the back of the alternator, your not really pushing 140amp through it (10g) if thats what the alt. is cranking out?

Well, the alternator is going to supply amps only when they are needed, and the amps are gonig to flow to where they are needed. Think of it as water flowing through pipes.

So after your crank the engine, the battery will need amps because it just ran the starter, so the alternator will supply amps through the new 6ga wire, to the solenoid post, to the battery. This is how the battery recharges.

Now, when you turn on something powered off the fuse block, the heater blower fan for example, it will pull amps through the old 10ga wire. But the heater blower fan probably only pulls 20 amps or so (I've never measured it). The alterator is not going to send 140 amps to it through the old 10ga wire because 140 amps are not needed, only the 20 amps are needed and will be sent.

[mdill]

Figure 2 is a correct way to do it, the yellow wire has a fusible link, so your main fuse panel will have some protection, the old red alt wire does not have any fuse device, so if you were to connect it to the solenoid lug it would leave the main panel with no protection. And yes the output of the big alt can both charge the battery, or the battery of the guy you are jump starting and still supply the main fuse panel with as much as the 10ga yellow can handle.
If you plan on a winch or other high load device it would also connect to the battery side post.
The big alt swap is not to put more current into the stock panel, it is to charge your battery faster and help with your winch/plow ... supper blaster sound system ..., all which should not draw from the main panel, but from the battery side of things under the hood.

Mike D.



[quote=gte901m]Here is my 2 cents on how to do it.


Figure 1. Stock wiring.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff166/gte901m/untitled.jpg

What happens when you put a high output alternator on with the stock wiring, is that you have 20+ feet of old 10ga wiring (red and yellow). This wiring can't handle the flow of current, and over heats, melts, and starts a fire. The amp meter itself can't handle the current flow either, and it can also catch fire.

If you just combine the yellow and red wires on a single post at the back of the amp meter, you only eliminate the amp meter from the equation. You are still left with the 20+ feet of 10ga wire the current from the alternator has to flow through to get to the battery.

Here is my take on how to remedy the problem. In the next figure, you unplug the bulk head connector on the fire wall, and move the yellow 10ga engine bay wire so it connects with the red 10ga wire that runs inside the cab. Then run a "new" 6 ga wire (red in my picture) from the alternator stud to the starter solenoid. You can then remove the yellow 10ga wire inside the cab that runs from the amp meter to the bulk head connector (or just leave it, it won't be connected to a power source). The red 10ga wire inside the cab that runs to the amp meter will now be powered from the battery, so you will need to either tap it up (easy way), or trace it back to the "big spice" in the wiring harnes and cut it out (and retape the splice). Figure 2 shows the red 10ga wire from the amp meter removed.

Figure 2. amp meter bypass.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff166/gte901m/untitled2.jpg




Please forgive me if this is a "not so smart question". I'm a dork when it comes to wiring. Figure 2 shows the wires spliced together at the firewall thus eliminating the "loop" for the ammeter. Why can't the red wire on the back of the alternator just be moved to the solenoid thus skipping having to splice the wires back together? Also, by putting the 10g wire & the new 6g wire on the same post on the solenoid, won't the 10g wire still be taking whatever current the new 6g wire can dish out? Told you i'm a electrical dork.:)

[gte901m]

Figure 2 is a correct way to do it, the yellow wire has a fusible link, so you have some protection to the main fuse panel, the old red wire does not have a fuse, so connecting it to the solenoid lug will leave the main panel with no protection.


You are 110% correct about the fusible link. I assumed that he would add a new one. But you know what they say about assuming....


If you plan on a winch or other high load device it would also connect to the battery side post. The big alt swap is not to put more current into the stock panel, it is to charge your battery faster and help with your winch/plow ... supper blaster sound system ..., all which should not draw from the main panel, but from the battery side of things under the hood.


Could not agree more. The key is to connect all your new electrical toys with a relay, and have them draw power from the battery (not the fuse block). Be careful with your head lights. The factory wiring has them drawing power from the fuse block (old 10ga wiring). So don't throw higher watt bulbs in them without wiring mods. If you want to run higher watt head light bulbs, use the existing factory wiring to trigger two relays (one for low beam and one for high), and have them pull power off the battery.

Keep the questions coming.:)

[68glad]

Thanks for the help. I learned something tonight.:thumbsup:

[Operations]

That is a correct recalled memory occurance, originally it was Ni-Chrome wire of such length as to provide 15.3 Ohms of resistance on the 12Vdc feed to bias the regulator (give the correct voltage drop) on the 10-SI and 12-SI alternators the correct bias.

The CS-144 takes a 300-350 Ohm resistance on most regulators to operate correctly, and the adapters from NAPA almost certainly contain the correct resistor inside them.

Without the correct bias for the regulators on all alternators, we risk either undercharging (low battery conditions) or worse overcharging (excessive heat, and wear and tear on the battery as well as outgassing).

Just set them up right, now the thing to remember is that pulling from the junkyard, you have no idea what regulator might have been put in the unit as it almost certainly has been rebuilt.

To get a bullet proof system, replace the regulator and recitifier diodes along with the brushes and the 10mm bearing (alternator specific, some earlier CS-144's used a smaller bearing as well as the CS-130's).

I posted a link to a video that shows step by step how to re-build the CS-144. Just call Transpo up and talk to the sales guys, tell them how you drive. Based upon how much charge you want at specific RPM's they can select the best regulator for you particular needs.... some folks rock-crawl and do not use the Jeep on the street, others are almost stock, some may just idle up mining roads and need the full 14.8Vdc at 1200 rpm.

It is the regulator that controls when the alternator charges and stops charging. Just select the correct regulator based upon Transpo sales personell and you will be set to go.

Excellent write up! :thumbsup: I appreciate all the effort that is going into this thread.

This has been a big help. I am in the middle of troubleshooting my (over) charging system. I'm experiencing 16+ volts at idle. While I'm under the hood, might as well do this upgrade and kill two birds with one stone.

Thanks again!

:cool: