Holley carb

[PAJEEPER]

Just got a nice Holley carb off ebay. Its a 1850-2 and I believe a model 4150. I has the adjustments on the metering plate.

Ok I'm going to rebuild it and it'll need tuned up right. So where do I start? Any tips on how to set it up? And where do I connect the distributor vacume? There is a vac nipple on the botttom front and one on the metering plate.

[Jerk]

ok, first, send it back, because you will probably be rebuilding every 6 months. there are 16 gaskets that can be wrong or wear out in that time and all can become a pain. get a NEW edelbrock performer carb with whatever choke linkage, they have several different setups. you can get them NEW for around $200.00... 190 to 230.00 depending, trust me I went the holley 4150 route for 10 years, and finally got tired of dumping 30 to 40 bucks into it every 4 months! not to mention the sluggish throttle response thanks to vacuum secondaries. This is all MY opinion and MY point of view, but take into consideration the simple phrase"you get what you pay for" and sometimes you don't even get that much. If you know someone who loves holleys and has worked with them for years, who you can trust, then I would say , yeah give it a try. if not, your in for a tough time. as far as the vacuum advance, it depends on what you want, if it goes into a cto switch and runs manifold vacuum at startup, then switches to ported vacuum, you will have to get a diagram. they should have one here. you dont need to hook it up as soon as you start the vehicle, so you can find a ported vacuum stem with a vacuum gauge and giveing the engine throttle. ported vacuum is usually found above the carb throttle plates. manifold below the throttle plates. manifold vac is highest at idle and drops with throttle opening. port vacuum is non existent at idle but increases at throttle opening. you generally want ported to be to your distributor for the right amount of advance at higher rpm, when the engine needs advance. the only reason to run manifold vaccuum to the distributor is for cold starting, and hence the CTO (Coolant Temp Overide ) switch changes it to ported at a certain temp , when the engine heats up and can run normally. hope all this helps. Matt

[Bob Barry]

Just to be a contrarian, I will say that is a good choice for a carb. I have the same carb on my truck (click on the pic of my Cherokee below; go to my drivetrain page for details on how I tuned this carb to work well with the 360), and I'm happy.

[jeepbob]

The Holleys are a good choice if you know how to tune them, buy a how to book. I will take a Holley any day as you can gets parts from any auto parts on a Sunday if needed although I never have. Get a Holly trick kit that has the extra secondary springs, pump cams, squirters, etc and go from there. For a 360 #68 jets, a 6.5 power valve, #34 squirtes and a red pump cam set on #2 will work as a good base line. Also I use the lightest secondary spring. I buy my Holleys cheap from people that have messed them up because they do not know how they work and rarely pay more than $25 for a 600 cfm single feed with side hung floats which are the best for off road. I have not had any luck walking into a parts store and picking up jets or metering rods for the off brand carbs (Edelbrock, Carter Rochester etc.) Some of the guys on this sight have seen both my CJ5 and Wag in action and can verify that they both run good.
Oh yeah the dist vac hooks to that nipple.

[ February 15, 2002: Message edited by: jeepbob ]</p>

[Jerk]

Jeepbob, don't get me wrong, the holley is great if you like spending time and money tuning an extremely complex and needlessley complicated smog era p.o.s. carb. that said, let me add this, I have done this for the last 3 years and have replaced hard parts as well as gaskets, as in fuel bowls, accelerater pumps, metering blocks power valves and tuned and tuned and tuned, I finally got the 600 cfm, side hung floats, reverse idle mixture screw, secondary metering block, single feed carb to work. it ran good, I could punch it and it would light the tires most of the time, this state of tune would generally last about 3 - 5 months before all of my gaskets were leaking(especially the float bowl screw gaskets and accelerater pump gasket) and I had massive vacuum leaks and lousey mileage-6-7 mpg. I rejetted and re everything elsed the d@mn thing and it would work for another 3-5 months. I got tired of dumping $37.00 to $42.00 into the thing 3 to 4 (and recently 6 times) in a year. I figured with a 230.00 dollar purchase I could start new and not have to worry about a 15 year old smog era holley being warped at every mating surface. I had run a 500 cfm carter afb for about a year and then my friend needed a carb for his 68 charger, I sold it to him. I just 3 months ago bought the 600 cfm version of a carter afb...being the Webber built, Edelbrock Performer carb. It has airweighted secondaries, so if the engine needs the secondaries to kick in, they do! its much more responsive off the line and has better mid throttle reaction, and I haven't re rodded and jetted it for 4500 ft elevation yet. Its out of the box performance is at least a 10% increase over the best state of tune I ever got from the holley. period. plus I have yet to take acorner hard and stall like the holley did often. Side floats suck for jostling, ask any gt, or scca road racer. Holleys are good for floor boarded strait line acceleration and thats about it. Sorry to sound like a jerk or something, but I have the holley books as well as other (carter, rochester) books, and a vast library of not just off roading performance stuff, but street and strip, and economy oriented car stuff. I'm not some A-hole highschooler with a full race cam and a 850 double pumper sitting on a 350 chevy engine. (actually never was one either). I guess the point is, If PAJeeper wants to spend his time and money tuning things that easily loose their tune, then get comfy with a holley,if he wants to drive instead of wrench, buy a Carter AFB/Edelbrock. BTW I can get rods and jets over the counter at 2 of the 4 auto parts places here. smile.gif laters!

[Lugnut]

Well, I might as well play my fiddle, too.
I have a 4160 Holley on my CJ and it has worked well for 4 years. Haven't done a thing to it 'cept clean and kit it when I got it.
It does WELL on and off road. If I do serious off-roading, I lean out the floats 3/4 turn - and with the clear sight-plugs run 'em back up when I get to hard surface. That might sound like a little too much effort, but the carb. came on the Jeep, so's it didn't cost me anything extra. Maybe, that's what I LIKE about THIS Holley.

[jeepbob]

Well every v8 SCCA trans am car I have seen as well as every carbed v8 road racer I have been around in 44 years of being at sports car tracks (I was at tracks beore I was born as my mother was asst chief of timing and scoring at Waterford Hills Road Course for 20 some years)have had holley carbs on them so they must not be too bad. The Webber built Edelbrock is nothing more than a rebadged Carter AFB still built off the same tooling. I usually don't have to rebuild a Holley for a couple of years (the one on my Wag went 4 years). If you buy the low buck rebuild kits you will have a problem sooner. I do set my floats down from the site port and never raise them back up as it is not needed. If your engine is not in proper tune you can experience problems with a Holley if you have not installed a backfire kit. Holley electric chokes do leave a lot to be desired so I run manuals. As far as smog era carbs I have never run across a Holley set up for smog unless it was a Ford or GM OEM carb and those I will admit were not the best but they were built to the automaker specs and standards not necessarly Holleys. One last thing if the Carters are so good, how come carter went bankrupt? (sorry for being a jerk here but I could not resist) :D I really do not care what carb anyone uses, You have to use what works for You. As for me, until I get the side draft Walbro carbs that are on my bench set up on the Waggy, I will run a Holly because it works for me.

[PAJEEPER]

Well Matt your opinion is greatly appreciated but I'm going to take my chances with it. I don't see why it wont work, good shape, no smog carb.

Just rebuilt it today, it already had pretty much all the pieces jeepbob and bob barry used to tune theirs so I just bought the kit. I got genuine Holley and it all went together perfectly.

It has the manual choke setup too.

[Lugnut]

Well, I'm gonna say a word or two 'bout this. I've got a 4350 on my J-truck, gonna havta' replace it (accelerator pump probs.). I've ordered the adapter plate Bob Barry recommended. I've got a 4160 on my CJ I'm gonna put on the truck for a few days to see how it works out. I'll let ya' know how it goes.
Say, isn't the 4150 a manual secondary, and the 4160 a vac. secondary? I'm kinda calling on my "sometimers" memory.

[PAJEEPER]

Well the truck is now running and not too bad either. Just need to get the holley tuned up right. I think it will work fine. Lugnut I think its a 4160 now that I've gotten a kit for it thats what it says. It has the vac secondaries. Let us know how yours does.

[Lindel]

4160 is a Holley with both bowl fed from one inlet, the 4150 has bowls fed from indiviual inlets.

The 4150 is considered the "high performance" version of the standard Holley carburetor.

Holley's are easy to work on, and easy to setup, given a little patience, and a good "how to" book, like JeepBob suggested. Depending on how high strung, and what you are requiring that your engine do, then the Holley's can be somewhat maintenance intensive, but on a average car, or truck, the Holley can be almost completely maintenance free. Once you learn the ins and outs of them, they are very easy to work on and with.

Holley has been the performance carburetor of choice for decades, and Jeep realized this early on, because the 2150, 2100, 4100, and 4350 are all Holley designs for Motorcraft.

The Edelbrock/Carter is a decent carb, built using a different idea than the Holley, but is not as flexible, or as easy to setup as the Holley, but I will admit that once you find it's "happy spot", it's a good carb. I will also say this, I won't buy another Edelbrock, I'll go back to Holley.

[Michael]

I totally agree with Lindel. I have run 4150's on my race car for many years until I sold it with the car. Although the easiest carb to tune is the Edelbrock in my opinion, they are just two diffrent animals. You should see better throttle response and secondary performance from the 4150. I am not impressed with my edelbrock as far as that goes but then again I am a Holley fan. Good luck and enjoy. You should really like that carb.. What cfm is it????

[PAJEEPER]

It must be the 4160 then just one fuel inlet. I don't have much experience with these but it looks like a well built carb. For instance it makes more sense to me to have the Holley style accelerter pump rather than the rubber cup. Works better than any other I've seen. Also alot les parts in this carb than others. I think I'm really gonna like this carb :D I've got the patience to get it sorted outs its been over a year since this thing ran and im not in a hurry.

Michael,
Its a 600cfm

[Bob Barry]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>4160 is a Holley with both bowl fed from one inlet, the 4150 has bowls fed from indiviual inlets.<hr></blockquote>

I think the real difference is that 4150's are mechanical secondaries with dual accelerator pumps (aka "Double-pumpers"), which are all dual-fuel-inlet designs, while the 4160's are vacuum-secondaries with single accelerator-pumps, some (like the 600cfm #1850) with single-fuel-inlets and others (like the 750cfm #3310) with dual-fuel-inlets. The Holley website shows a number of dual-fuel-inlet designs that they label as 4160's (such as http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Products/FMS/FMSC/0-80508S.html). (http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Products/FMS/FMSC/0-80508S.html)

But then again, there seem to be some single-feed, mechanical secondary carbs labeled as 4160's, such as http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Products/FMS/FMSC/0-4224.html . So I guess there are exceptions to every rule.

[ February 19, 2002: Message edited by: Bob Barry ]

[ February 19, 2002: Message edited by: Bob Barry ]</p>

[Lindel]

Just so you know, Bob, I got the info off of Holley's website, same as you :eek: , so take it for what it's worth! :confused: :confused:

[64Trvlr]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Matt W:
ok, first, send it back, because you will probably be rebuilding every 6 months. there are 16 gaskets that can be wrong or wear out in that time and all can become a pain.<hr></blockquote>

ROTFLMAO
Thanks for making me laugh Matt. Where are the 16 gaskets on the Holley? As for the constant rebuilds I must have a bad one as all I've done in 7 years is rejet and change the power valve. As for maintance I do chance the fuel filter and clean the air filter but that's all I do. Wonder what's wrong with my Holley since it doesn't leak and doesn't need to be rebuilt every 6 months? Good luck with your make believe Carter.
:cool:

[jeepbob]

I wondered about the gaskets and the complicated smog bit too, Thought I was missing something :D

[Mr Dave]

I put a Holley 750 on my LeMans in 1990. I rebuilt it (even though it didn't need it) and added a trick kit to tune it better in 1991 or 92.
After that, it was a daily driver for 2 years. Then probably every other day for another 3 years. I took the car apart and the carb sat on the bench for a couple of years. Then I gave it to a buddy of mine, who ended up putting it on the waggy I bought from him. The carb still works great--a little big for my Wag though. Gaskets have not dried out. I'm pretty happy with mine. smile.gif

[Joe J-Truck]

Holley makes an OK carb, if you don't mind tweaking on it and taking the time to tune it to make it run right. I can't think of an easier 4 barrel to rebuild. If you get the book, or read the car magazine articles, you can figure out how to tune each system of the holley. Its nice to be able to get everything you need right at the parts store.
I can also see why people dislike them because of all the little variables that need to get sorted out to get a holley to work well on a performance engine.
The 360 in my J10 is pretty much stock. It has a holley 650cfm 4160 and runs fine except for a leaky o-ring at the rear float bowl where the tube goes bewtween the bowls.
That's easy enough to fix.
I think the fact that the engine is relatively STOCK is a key factor.
I had a helluva time trying to find the sweet spot for the 750cfm 4150 on my 67 Tempest. It feeds a built pontiac 400 with a big cam, headers, etc. I've spent hours changing around pump cams, jets, secondary springs and I'm still not satisfied with how it runs off the line. Its close to where it should be now, and I'm still working with it. I think there's definately a big learning curve with the holley.
My buddy has a poncho 400 in his 69 firebird and he runs an edelbrock. He makes me envious because he bolted it on and it ran great.
The tradeoff is that carb cost him 200 clams, whereas my holley was pretty much free... at least until I started buying parts for it.
I still havn't spent quite $100 on it yet. Gasket and rebuild kits, a box of jets, a big shot accelerator pump, secondary springs, spacer, fuel fittings, etc. But I've had to take alot of time to tune and test and read and learn.
I guess its a matter of what your time is worth.
On a jeep, I'm of the opinon that carbs generally suck offroad anyway, especially If you're going on hardcore trails where there are steep inclines at weird angles. I like the simplicity of carbs for the street, but on my next jeep project, I'm holding out for fuel injection of some kind.

[Dude]

Hey, for those that want to actually know their Holley, I too have the 1850, you should get the Holley Manual by Dave Emanuel. You can get it off Ebay for 18bones. I just got through half of it and can tell you what every hole on a Holley does. It's a great book/tool for those wanting to optimize their ride. I just put in a cam and spent a lot of time working the heads. I made minor changes (higher power valve and bigger jets), but it now makes this truck FAST, like motorcycle FAST. Would've just been shooting in the dark without this book. I can now concur with the majority of the respondents when I agree that Holley's are cheap/easy/good.

[Lindel]

Joe J-Truck, you need to take a good look at the accelerator pump adjustment. It's easy to do, and you can do it with the car in the driveway.

You'll need to increase/decrease the stroke a little at a time, using the spring loaded bolt on the accel pump lever. The cam is also changeable, but give the adjustment a shot first. Anyway, when you can go from idle, to WOT, sitting in the driveway, you've got the accel pump correct. I'd start by increasing the stroke.

[Mr Dave]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dude:
... I just put in a cam and spent a lot of time working the heads. I made minor changes (higher power valve and bigger jets), but it now makes this truck FAST, like motorcycle FAST. <hr></blockquote>

Your GW runs 10's? :eek: ;)

http://home.sprintmail.com/~mrdave/daveCBRsig.jpg

[ February 21, 2002: Message edited by: Mr Dave ]</p>

[Mr Dave]

Joe J-Truck, tuning a Holley is not that complicated. My 750 on my LeMans was more throttle responsive off idle than my TPI IROC-Z. You didn't mention if you had a single plane intake or spacer on a dual plane on the Pontiac. I ran a dual plane Edelbrock with no spacer. Adding a spacer (or a single plate nitrous system) noticeably reduced the throttle response down low.

http://home.sprintmail.com/~mrdave/lemanssigpic.jpg

[Jerk]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by 64Trvlr:


ROTFLMAO
Thanks for making me laugh Matt. Where are the 16 gaskets on the Holley? As for the constant rebuilds I must have a bad one as all I've done in 7 years is rejet and change the power valve. As for maintance I do chance the fuel filter and clean the air filter but that's all I do. Wonder what's wrong with my Holley since it doesn't leak and doesn't need to be rebuilt every 6 months? Good luck with your make believe Carter.
:cool: <hr></blockquote>

2 float bowl gaskets, 2 metering block gaskets, 8 float bowl screw gaskets, 1 power valve gasket, 1 base gasket 1 throttle body to base gasket,1 accelerator pump gasket.lets see, 2+2=4, +8 =12, +1 +1 +1 +1 =16 do you know how to add, smarty bu++? not to mention the crappy design with all the easily scarred or torn o-rings. All I'm saying is "I - DON'T - LIKE - TO - TUNE - *MY* _ CARB - ALL - THE - TIME!" And I haven't had to with my edelbrock. :D :D ok?

[jeepbob]

To each his own, as I am a decent carb tuner and prefer the extra hp and tunability of the Holley, I will stick with them. I can dial in my carb to suit my motor and then don't have to touch it.
BTW if you use nylon washers you eliminate 8 "gaskets". I can also generally find 15 extra hp by dialing in a carb to the motor. The purpose in using an aftermarket carb is to get more out of your motor and while any carb might work right out of the box it won't be totally right. Might as well stick with the motorcraft 2v and save your money.

[Jerk]

j.b...why the hell would I want a 2 barrel carb on a 350 hp 407 ???????? If i wanted a 2 barrel, i would put a weeney 360 back in, but its a 3/4 ton truck and i like it to move when i push the "go" pedal- comprende? I DO have an after market carb and the only thing I gotta do to it is jet it leaner for my altitude, which isn't a real big deal right now, it has plenty of power, I just got tired of wrenching on it instead of driving it. In rebuild kits and carb parts alone, I could have bought 2 edelbrocks in the last 3 years! The reason racers use holleys is precisesly because they like to tune stuff for every conceivable condition to get that extra 5 hp at the track and a holley is so complex, you have to tune them all the time, which is why they now make teflon or plastic gaskets, because to tune a holley, you have to completely pull it apart, ruining half your gaskets in the meantime! A carter AFB/ edelbrock Performer you just take the top off for a jet change, rods you can change with the carb all together. like I said previously in my posts, It has been on the engine for atleast 10 or 15 years and it was 6989 which was made for sb fords, and was a "smog" 4 barrel- 2 step power valve (removed years ago) reverse idle mixture screws, if you don't know what this is, then you don't know that much about holleys. it also originally came with a secondary metering PLATE and a metering BLOCK was put in its place. I know how to tune a holley, I just got tired of excercising that knowledge all the time. Holleys don't like 10 degree weather either.

[Dude]

Mr Dave,
I ride a big cruiser cycle, not a crotch rocket. Lil' bit of a difference

[jeepbob]

Matt, I was just yanking your chain :D lighten up.

[Mr Dave]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dude:
Mr Dave,
I ride a big cruiser cycle, not a crotch rocket. Lil' bit of a difference<hr></blockquote>

You can say that again. smile.gif

Hey! I just noticed you're from Pensacola. Maybe I'll see you around sometime. :cool:

[coolram]

Just to add my .02.When I had the 454 rebuilt in my Monte Carlo I had the speed shop build a 3310 Holley to my engine specs.Never had a leak or problem from it.Iv'e rebuilt carbs and would rather do a Holley than Edelbrock/Carter.Add in the fact you can add metering plates with externally adustable/replaceable jets.But all this IMHO.