Stand alone fuel injection kit (TBI)

[Subic Jeep]

A stand alone fuel injection kit that does what a carburettor does but does it upside down! That is for offroad use in extreme angles.

Must cost less than 1250$ that is what I paid for the engine (SBC350 first generation )

Dont want to spend weeks programming just plug and play.
Deliver fuel to engine, fuel consumption is not an issue.

Must have good idle and low rpm running characteristic.

Found these two universal kits at just under 1000$ (AMC & GM)

Holley 502-20S - Holley Pro-Jection Fuel Injection Systems $979.95

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-502-20S/

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/hly-502-20s.jpg

Injection Style Throttle body
Metering Style Speed density
Intake Manifold Included No
Fuel Rails Included No
Throttle Body Included Yes
Throttle Body Mounting Flange 4-barrel square bore
Venturi Quantity2

Airflow Rate (cfm) 670 cfm
Throttle Body Material Cast aluminum
Throttle Body FinishNatural
Injectors IncludedYes
Injector Size (lbs/hr)80 lbs./hr.
Calibration Module Included No
ECM Included Yes
Wiring Harness IncludedYes
Oxygen Sensor Included No ??
Fuel Pump IncludedYes
Fuel Pressure Regulator IncludedYes
Distributor IncludedNo
MAP Sensor IncludedYes
IAT Sensor IncludedYes
TPS Sensor IncludedYes
IAC Motor IncludedYes
QuantitySold as a kit.
NotesWill support up to 275 hp.
A stand-alone fuel injection system for your carbureted car or truck.

Now you can get the horsepower and drivability benefits of electronic fuel injection for your carbureted, non-computer controlled vehicle. These Holley Pro-Jection fuel injection systems are complete stand-alone systems, requiring no OEM computer assistance. They're available in 1, 2, and 4-barrel models, with sizes ranging from 300 to 900 cfm. All systems come with everything needed for installation, including the fuel pump and filter, hose, a wiring harness, ECU, throttle body, hardware, and a complete detailed instruction booklet.


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STOCK Chevrolet TBI Conversion Kit $950

http://www.affordable-fuel-injection.com/store.php?crn=208&rn=422&action=show_detail

http://www.affordable-fuel-injection.com/sc_images/products/380_image.jpg


Here is what your TBI conversion will include.

Rebuilt TBI unit with Flow Matched Injectors
ECM (rebuilt and tested GM production)
Complete wiring harness
AFI specially calibrated chip
Adapter plate, gaskets, hardware
External Electric fuel pump with filter
Fuel pump relay
Power relay
Coolant sensor
MAP sensor
O2 sensor
Check engine indicator
Installation instructions
Tech support
Many miles of low maintenance fuel injection operation----------------------------------------------------------
More kits to do the same job, post your link.

Why is one better than the other?

Waste of time and money? I must spend more?

[FSJ Guy]

I think you'd be really happy if you got a kit that would also control spark timing as well. That's the way the factory did it.

I upgraded my system to have timing control and it's absolutely wonderful.

If you don't want to do any programming, get a turnkey system. But I've found that I can tune things to MY specific motor with tuning capabilities.

[Subic Jeep]

Could you explain why spark control is desirable?

Affordable Fuel Injection has a kit with distribute for $1100 thats is additional $150 for the distributer and that is a good price for a electronic distributer. The AMC kit is $1200 including distributer.

I already have a pro-comp two wire electronic distributer from e-bay for $70 :thumbsup: yeah and it works......

STOCK AMC TBI Complete System w/Distributor

http://www.affordable-fuel-injection.com/sc_images/products/378_image.jpg

[FleXXedOUT88]

i know this is out of ur price range... but the best kit i have found and used is made by fast its a newer kit. i put it on a buddys blazer... he paid 1600 for it. but it is completly self tuning and supports up to 600hp. you just hook it up comes with everytinh u need and one u hook it up it has an incab control modual and u run thru the setup process it askes u a few questions and then once u start it tunes it self as u drive. its a very very nice kit!

http://www.fuelairspark.com/ezefi/default.asp?utm_source=EZ_HomePage_Banner_Ad&utm_medium=Banner_Ad&utm_term=Link&utm_content=EZ_HomePage_Banner_Ad&utm_campaign=EZ_HomePage_Banner_Ad

[FSJ Guy]

You don't need a fancy HEI distributor to have GM timing control. All you need is a distributor out of a TBI controlled motor. They should be easy to find in boneyards.

Now, you DO need a timing curve for your motor. But that's pretty easy to figure out, too, IMHO.

I'm not knocking AFI's price or system. You're paying for their time and effort for creating a timing tune and putting the system together. But I want you to know what really is involved and how much it would cost YOU to do it on your own if you wanted to.

I always kick myself when I pay lots of $$ for something and when I get it, I find out that I could have done the same thing for A LOT LESS myself.

Since the motor you're putting it on is a SBC 350, there are tons of stock tunes available for it. You probably could find an ASDU (that's the "broadcast code") tune and it should run pretty well right out of the box.


QUESTION:
Do you just not WANT to do any programming or is it because you don't know HOW to do the programming? I'm not trying to chastise you. I'm just wondering.


WHY I LIKE SPARK CONTROL:
Having spark control allows you to adjust the timing to what it SHOULD be and doesn't force you do depend on vacuum settings, CTO switches to change from manifold vs. ported at certain temps, etc. You can set the timing so it cranks and starts up easily, maximize efficiency at cruising speeds and maximize power at WOT. All independently of each other.

Remember the old way of setting timing? Adjust for maximum idle vacuum or advance until it pings on accel and then back off? Those methods are compromises, IMHO. Sure, you can replace springs and adjust the vac advance. But with ECM timing control, I can change settings from the cab and never even have to lift the hood.

The first TBI system I bought was a turnkey Howell system (no spark control) back in 2000.

I switched it to different FSJ's since. But within the past year, I have modified the harness to add spark control and the VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor). That combined with my tuning efforts have resulted in a truck that runs and drives remarkably like a newer modern vehicle.

TUNING
Tuning isn't that hard. I would program a tune, drive to the office and see how it worked. When I was done at the office, I'd program another tune based on my last drive and then drive home on the new tune and see how the changes worked (or didn't work! LOL!) All of these changes were made in my business clothing and I never had to lift the hood once nor did I get my hands dirty.

Now that I have it tuned properly (fuel and timing), the truck performs so much better than it did with the stock Howell system on it. Without giving away any info about Howell's fuel map, I will say that my fuel map is noticeably different than theirs. I also have a Performer intake on my truck, but everything else is stock.

Now, if you don't have the time or ability to do this (Don't worry, I didn't have the knowledge, either, when I first bought my Howell system), the AFI system with timing control would be the way to go, IMHO.


What it really comes down to is this: It's either time & effort or money. Which do you have more of to spare? :D

[Gearhead 1990]

I always kick myself when I pay lots of $$ for something and when I get it, I find out that I could have done the same thing for A LOT LESS myself.

I agree.....

IMHO if it is going to be a stock engine I would just find a truck in the junkyard that has TBI and rob the intake, distributor, all the sensors, and the computer. Then just buy the AFI basic harness and chip, I have used that setup and it really works nice, although mine was on a 454. But that is only $360 bucks compared to over a thousand and you just have to spend a little time looking for some parts.

[FSJ Guy]

IMHO if it is going to be a stock engine I would just find a truck in the junkyard that has TBI and rob the intake, distributor, all the sensors, and the computer. Then just buy the AFI basic harness and chip, I have used that setup and it really works nice, although mine was on a 454. But that is only $360 bucks compared to over a thousand and you just have to spend a little time looking for some parts.

That's a great solution!

[rmorit01]

I agree.....

IMHO if it is going to be a stock engine I would just find a truck in the junkyard that has TBI and rob the intake, distributor, all the sensors, and the computer. Then just buy the AFI basic harness and chip, I have used that setup and it really works nice, although mine was on a 454. But that is only $360 bucks compared to over a thousand and you just have to spend a little time looking for some parts.
I think Gearhead has a good point if you already have a Chevy 350. Perhaps it is hard to source the parts in your location or not many mid-80's chevy trucks in junkyards like here in the states.

I have owned both Howell and Affordable. The Howell was on an AMC 360 and now have the Affordable Fuel Injection on AMC 360 (two different vehicles--Howell was on an engine with lots of blowby and the AFI is on a rebuilt 360).

If you go with affordable and get spark control (it is just an electric module that introduces advance electronically instead of manually with springs and vacuum) just ask them WHAT TYPE of distributor comes with the kit.

For the AMC 360 it was a replacement distributor from procomp with the weights welded and the vaccum advanced plugged. I would have spent a few extra bucks to get a better MSD distributor, but the procomp is working without problems and the old distributor on that engine was bad anyway.

If you need tech support Howell was very good the one time I spoke to them but being where you are located perhaps you may need an alternative for tech support.

My Howell always had a slight stumble as it warmed up but that didn't bother me since it only occurred at very specific warm up temp. The affordable is on a rebuilt engine and runs just as well as the Howell but without the warm up stumble and the engine is just stronger. Haven't had to speak with affordable at all so can't comment on their tech support.

Lastly, if you have no problems with your current carburetor and you like how your truck runs off road then you may not want to convert. However, if you want to learn about TBI -- buying a kit is a good way to start.

Bob

[Subic Jeep]

QUESTION:
Do you just not WANT to do any programming or is it because you don't know HOW to do the programming? I'm not trying to chastise you. I'm just wondering.


Its mostly a logistical problem as i live in the Philippines specially to start gathering parts for a TBI. A ready made kit makes it much easier and less time consuming. Not that a kit guarantees that it will be a instant sauces but it should work better. I am a little inpatient to start this from scratch.

I agree the kits are expensive (not to say overpriced) but I rather take that than long hunt for parts and software.. that sometimes are 3-4 weeks away.

I can see the beauty of having the possibility to tweak the system over a Laptop but paying over 1500 for it maybe not...

I was looking at the installation instructions for the Holley kit and that has its own charm with 5 potentiometers to set the whole thing.
I know from experience that potentiometers can be prone to failure and irregular behavior but still:rolleyes:

Most of the things on my Cherokee I have done myself more of a necessity cut costs than anything else. Anyhow I have paid a fortune in air freight just to get the parts from USA I needed.
I got a small 10 inch laptop to have in the Cherokee but had to give that up to my wife as her laptop was stolen. So I have to steal the car PC from my Pajero (Home made car PC) yeah I think I could manage to get the TBI in DIY form to work.. just have so many other things remaining to do, in April its 3 years sins I started the modifications.....:banghead:

[FSJ Guy]

I forgot you're in the Philippines. So no junkyard scrounging for you! LOL!

In THAT case, I'd still go for a Chevy TBI kit. This one has spark control.

http://www.affordable-fuel-injection.com/store.php?crn=208&rn=423&action=show_detail

The only thing it's missing is the VSS and a knock sensor. The knock sensor you really don't need if it's tuned well. I have added a VSS to my system and it's supposed to help with economy.

Once you have all the parts, the programming part isn't an issue. I suspect that you can pick up a cheap laptop just as easily as you can buy one here. I'm using a 600 mhz laptop with my truck, so it doesn't need to be super fast at all.

[ClovisMan]

I have a factory tbi harness from a 91 Chevy truck, Anyone know if there is a place I can send it to have all the extra crap removed?

[JeepsAndGuns]

ClovisMan, if you feel that you can not handle the harness yourself, I could help you out. I pulled a harness from a 89 chebby in the local junkyard and got it all straightened out and read to go. All I have left to do is buy all the sensors I am missing, and hook it up to my jeep.
But if you need someone to get it straightened out, all the crap taken out, and all the wires labeled and cant find someone local, let me know and I could do it for you. Has anything been cut on the harness? Anything missing, specificly, important connectors? PM me if you want to talk some more about it.

[Subic Jeep]

I decided to go with Affordable Fuel injection kit and ordered one today, the main reason for the purchase is that I can either pick it up in Houston or New York pending when it will be ready. No expensive freight costs and customs clearance hazels..:rolleyes:

STOCK Chevrolet TBI Complete System w/Distributor
http://www.affordable-fuel-injection.com/sc_images/products/381_image.jpg

What more do I need? I am going to have a Car PC or a laptop in my Cherokee, how do I hook it up? What programs do I need? Anything I can monitor during run that is worth the effort. I already have Dakota digital gauges so most needed to know is already there.

How well are the components protected from the elements (water)?

I usually switch off power when I am not using the Cherokee how does this affect the ECM, or should I have it with power when I am away at work up to 3 months. How much amps does the ECM draw when at idle, with ignition off.

[rmorit01]

I decided to go with Affordable Fuel injection kit and ordered one today, the main reason for the purchase is that I can either pick it up in Houston or New York pending when it will be ready.

What more do I need? I am going to have a Car PC or a laptop in my Cherokee, how do I hook it up? What programs do I need? Anything I can monitor during run that is worth the effort. I already have Dakota digital gauges so most needed to know is already there.


A couple answers for you, to connect to a laptop or a PC (assuming you are running windows on it?) you will need an aldl cable and they can be made or purchased here - http://aldlcable.com/ the cable just plugs into the electrical port that comes with your system (when you install it mount the electrical port in a place for easy access).

On the laptop you will need to run a program -- lots of support for the winaldl program -- here is a link to MANY versions of software. I have only monitored my system using WINALDL - http://aldlcable.com/sc/pages.asp?pageid=20

About the only thing I have seen people continuously monitor is the air fuel mixture from the 02 sensor. K&N makes a kit to do it with a display - http://www.knfilters.com/airfuelmonitors.htm

I don't believe you have anything to worry about if you disconnect the battery it has no effect on the electronics.

All connectors underhood are waterproof connectors. The computer box goes inside the vehicle.

Make sure they are providing you with a high quality distributor. My AMC 360 came with a procomp MSD knockoff and I would have preferred just going with a higher quality distributor from the start.

Hope those links get you started...lots of resources on winaldl on the internet.

[FSJ Guy]

I've let my Chevy TBI truck sit for a month or so and it always starts up. With a good battery, you should be fine. When turned off, the ECM probably pulls as much amps as your radio's clock. IOW, not much.

When disconnected, the ECM loses the "learning" that is did, but that's just for the fuel trim adjustments. You really shouldn't notice much difference. The timing control is in the static RAM, so it is not affected at all.

You don't really NEED a laptop since you've bought a turnkey system.

If you use one, you can use WINALDL to monitor the ALDL data That will give you coolant temp, IAC position, TPS position, MAP reading, engine RPM, vehicle speed (if you have a VSS, Vehicle Speed Sensor), closed loop indicator and the trouble codes (if present).

That's all useful for trouble shooting, but not necessary for daily driving. I've got a good tune on my truck right now, and I don't drag the laptop with me unless I'm "experimenting" with something new.

[Subic Jeep]

Thanks for the answers and links, great info:thumbsup: I downloaded a few programs, I need to be able to read the fault codes if something comes up.

In 2006 I made a Car PC for my Mitsubishi Pajero I am going to transfer the Car PC to my Cherokee, that is if it still runs, hehe, have had some software problems with it lately. I mainly use it for GPS navigation as the road signs are missing on the provincial roads in Philippines and without a track to follow during night time its a real pain to find ones way back home.:banghead:

Here is the Car PC setup:
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff267/SubicJeep/Pajero/IMG_0895.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff267/SubicJeep/Pajero/IMG_0897.jpg

Now I am just waiting to hear when the TBI is ready so I can pick it up.....:D

[FSJ Guy]

You can always pull the trouble codes by shorting two pins on the ALDL connector, but it sounds like you'll have a PC in your truck regardless, so you might was well use that instead.

[Subic Jeep]

You can always pull the trouble codes by shorting two pins on the ALDL connector, but it sounds like you'll have a PC in your truck regardless, so you might was well use that instead.

Computers are computers and have a tendency not to work when you need them :D
Is this the service engine light blinking to give codes?:confused:
It might be a good idea to have a printout of how to do it when one is far away on the trail..

[shackwrrr]

heres my "car pc" It has gps built in and its waterproof lol

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e357/shackwrrr/th_MYDC0007-1.jpg (http://s43.photobucket.com/albums/e357/shackwrrr/?action=view&current=MYDC0007-1.jpg)

[FSJ Guy]

Sorry, yes. You can short out two pins on the ALDL and the SES light will "flash" the codes at you.

The short version:

http://www.freeautomechanic.com/diagnostictroblecodes5.html

Long version:

http://www.troublecodes.net/GM/91_57J.shtml

The parent page of the long version:

http://www.troublecodes.net/GM/

[Subic Jeep]

Thanks Ethan, all downloaded :thumbsup:

Yes this will be enough time to get it there. It should go out on Monday. It normally would go out today but the UPS truck is broke down and cannot get out to pick up today.

Norman R. Witte Jr.
President
Affordable Fuel Injection Inc.

That is arrival 24th in Houston:D :dancingbanana:

[Subic Jeep]

Well finally got to the stage of installation of the AFI - TBI here is some additional info that I needed regarding vacuum ports

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd255/RFmaster89/TBI%20Photos/TBIVacuumconnections.gif

The installation is rather simple....

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff267/SubicJeep/1-Cherokee%202010/Bay-getting-there.jpg

Missing from kit are vacuum blanking off caps


Some reading
http://users.california.com/~eagle/howell.html

The way mine is set up now, and according to troy at howell, is :
the left front port goes to the MAP sensor
The center top one goes to the pcv valve etc,
the center bottom one goes to the distributor, and
the right one goes to the canister.
Here is a picture of my setup. It is just like the list above except I have the MAP senson on the manifold

http://users.california.com/~eagle/figs/howell/vacuum1.gif