FSJ newbie - what makes a good GW

[ErieBeach]

Hi, new here and never had a FSJ. Still don't, but am looking to get into the game--wife and I are both crazy about Wagoneers, we love em, it's "our" car.

Can't afford one of those mint-condition showroom cars with 2,000 miles on them, but want a solid, clean ride--I'm trying to avoid any common newbie mistakes or serious no-gos that will set me back a lot of cash. I'm not a mechanic--not really a car person at all so I guess my concern is about the reliability of these things. Do you have to be either rich or a mechanic to own one? I'm a purist at heart so "all original" is a plus, but because of budget I'm open to anything--how are new or rebuilt engines in these things? And what about Diesel swaps, are they generally reliable?

After much online research and eBay and Craigslist searching I also put together what seems to be a set of common problems with these babies. Anyone care to add/correct or give tips on what to look for?

tailgate window does not work
gas gauge sticks (expensive to fix?)
rust (impossible?!)
bad/faulty wiring
bad carb
cruise control broken
cracked leather
leaky window seals

(And hey if you know of a GW for sale anywhere near northern Ohio, please send a PM!)

[Fiodh. Argus]

and the list goes on...

you'll eventually do everything!

[ErieBeach]

and the list goes on...

you'll eventually do everything!

THAT's what I was afriad of! :eek:

[Brizio]

But don't worry it is a Jeep... Just Empty Every Pocket...:D:D:D:D

Welcome, I'll sure you can find one that has somethings that works... :)

[DerekTJeep]

cars.com may have some nice FSJs for sale in your area.

[coyote220]

The answer to your question, "What makes a good GW?" is YOU!

[addicted]

One that hasn't spent any time in the rust belt and driven during winter.

[Fiodh. Argus]

yeah definitely, look for no rust, everything else can be done but frame and body rust really sucks. also a nice interior... basically a CA or AZ, NM wag!

[fulsizjeep]

If it is not leaking any fluids, check and make sure there are fluids inside. ;)

Welcome from Colorado! :fsj:

[Uncle Buck]

I don't think you have to a mechanic per say to own one, but I do think some mechanical skills are needed. Something as simple as adjusting a choke and carburator, replacing vacuum hoses and stuff like that are going to have to be done no matter how good of shape the vehicle is in. They do require some maintenance, as they are 20 years old and older.

Dont' take this wrong I would never discourage someone from owning something they want. Just educate yourself and don't let your dream turn into your nightmare.

The best thing to own if you have a GW is another reliable vehicle to fall back on.

[mdill]

Well you have a few strikes going agenst you.

Wagoneer's/Grand-Wagoneer's are all ~20+ (or getting close) years old.

Your average mechanic is going to be expensive, as most will not have a good background in working on or tuning a 20 year old Carburated vehicle. Wagoneers were the last American vehicles to have a carb, the emissions systems are vacuum mechanical systems, with many obsolete parts (even in the day few mechanics knew how to correctly work on the systems, hence the Buba-rip it all out mentality) , so expect to have to pay for his learning curve, or have him pass on the work. (Back then, going 12K miles between tune ups was a long ways, there is no self adjusting compensating system like today's computer controlled cars)

Any 20 year old vehicle will take much up front work and maintenance work to keep ahead to the deterioration of parts due to age and usage. If this is done the truck can be reliable.

You live in the wrong place to buy a local truck that is worth the time effort to bring up to reliable driver specifications, there is way to much rust rot in the upper mid-west.

In short they are not a good truck to have as a daily driver if you want to do it on a budget, (they bust budgets), if you want a driver that you expect to break down every now and again, the entry price can be pretty cheap, the unexpected costs and repairs can be high though.

They are old used trucks, the condition is pretty much 100% determined by how they were used, maintained and the environment they spent their years, nice ones bring good $'s trashed ones are cheap, some trashed one get passed off as nice, and disappoint the buyer badly.

Good luck, we love them, but realize what they are, and they are not ever going to be a late model Honda reliable, or cheap to drive and maintain.

Mike D.

BTW, all the stuff you listed is just par for the course on any old car, stuff gets old, rubber dries out, old grease in "the greased for life" areas stiffens up, leather breaks down, all the hoses (if original) have lost much of their elastomers ....

[fsjman1978]

Welcome.

[mike12]

good luck:thumbsup:

[Carleysjeep]

First of all welcome.

Mdill and Uncle Buck make good points. If your are not mechanically inclined you need to willing to learn. If you want a vehicle that you never lift the hood on you will not be happy with a Wagoneer. If you drive one somewhere you need a basic understanding of automobiles so you can work on it if it leaves you stranded.

I own two and love them but I work on them myself and carry tools in case of breakdowns. We took ours to Colorado last summer 2000 miles round trip and we had a couple of issues on the road that had to be dealt with but nothing too major.

It depends on you. There is a guy close to here that bought a J truck. He had no mechanical background plus some health issues. After his purchase he was asking himself what was I thinking that I could rebuild and drive this truck? He was over his head and is now trying to sell.

If you own one you will work on it, if you do not have the tools and skills to do common repairs and maintence, then you need to ask yourself, is this really the vehicle I want?

[jaber]

Welcome to the land of empty pockets and unfinished projects...:thumbsup:

[MMinMN]

Ok - time to drop in my two cents. I am new to the forum as well, have had a hiatus from jeeps - mainly for other interests.

Yes these Jeep's can be very challenging to their owners, and yes you will either learn some new skills out of necessity or lean on some pals that have them. A local support system can go along way to getting you your education.

With that said, these have got to be the funnest most impressive vehicles to drive, the shear thrill of plowing through a couple feet of snow - a grin from ear to ear is sure hard to beat.

I also agree with the recommendation to acquire a jeep from the dry states if possible - this can be challenging tho, and will require patience.

Good luck,

M

[spiydr]

I should chime in as well. I am new to the whole FSJ world as well, but I love it. I do like to work with my hands, but I do not have a ton of experience with engines, trannys, transfer cases and so on. I am learning as I go.

These beast run great, but can be tempormental. If you enjoy a challenge and like a little bit of uncertainty, then go for it.

Hell, I just got done pushing my Jeep to the gas station with seven other strangers less then a week ago.

Best of luck, and remember this is a community here and you will get the help you need if something comes up.

[freeincolorado]

Welcome. As said before FSJ's are fickle beasts that often need tender care (or sometimes a Big Hammer). I drive mine daily and it has been reliable for the most part. One area of concern I have personally experienced is poorly done modifications by previous owners. If I were to do it again, I would look for one that was unmolested. This forum has many knowledgeable members and the tech archive is very informative. One note of warning, buy one and soon you'll start looking for another (definatly if your signifigant other likes them also). Good luck and happy hunting.

[letank]

As for rust avoid FSJ from coastal town, even in California.... lift up the carpet at all 4 wheel wells to check for rust holes.... Welcome to the asylum.

[ThisGuyUKnow]

The best thing to own if you have a GW is another reliable vehicle to fall back on.

Or one or two extra Semi- functional FSJ's

[710 Burner]

If you are dead-set on buying one (99% of you are :D ) Take your time to find one that fits you. There are still plenty of them out there, so if you want to pass on one and keep looking, its no big loss. (unless you are buying the last one off the production line, and I believe it is either in a museum or private collection)

[Jayrodoh]

Yes they can be funny, but take your time, find a nice well maintained one, do a few easy upgrades and you'll be fine. My 86 is my summer DD, we take it on 500 mile trips all the time, wife drives it without worry, etc. Great camping rig. The kids love it.

It's a get in, tap the pedal, turn key and go car. Lifes too short to not own a woody.

I'm local to you if you need a hand looking at one, I know the 86 and newer like the back of my hand.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2554/img0270hwe.jpg

[jeeper63b]

ahh i wouldnt worry, ive owned 2 of em and as long as its not a POS and you are a lil mechanicaly inclined youll be fine. good luck and if you need info and parts id recomend BJ's off road and if your goin old school look into montana overland.
:thumbsup:

[HD_JEEP]

If you are dead-set on buying one (99% of you are :D ) Take your time to find one that fits you. There are still plenty of them out there, so if you want to pass on one and keep looking, its no big loss. (unless you are buying the last one off the production line, and I believe it is either in a museum or private collection)

I agree... I wanted a family Jeep (I have had baby Jeeps) I wanted to be different and learn how to be better mechanically inclined for my own vehicles. Well I found my 91 GW in the south.

Maintained well from previous owners, rust free for good price. Now I enjoy working on it and making it better. My boys love it. So research and search for what you really want. They are out there.

Good luck, have fun.
this forum is a god send, great support group for my addiction.

[Carleysjeep]

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2554/img0270hwe.jpg

Jayrodoh, man that wag is clean!! :cool: Is that your Eagle behind it?

[leostevo]

First of all, I am thrilled when someone takes an interest in these trucks. The more people that love them, the less they end up in crushers and the more parts are still available for the rest of us.

Now, if you are able to understand basic mechanic principles and are willing to dig in and try things, then you should be okay. Just remember that there is a necessity for this forum. Most posts aren't about how long we have been driving without mishap. These trucks will have issues and you will have to fix them yourself. (or go broke paying for someone else who doesn't care to butcher your truck)

Parts generally aren't crazy expensive and if you own basic tools you can do most things. I love my 90 grand wagoneer because it doesn't have any fancy computers and that means that I can actually fix whatever is wrong with it.

But certainly don't depend on this truck as your daily driver. Unless Jay Leno lets you park it in his garage where ever-vigilant mechanics constantly comb over it preemptively replacing worn parts, you will get stranded. If you must, buy a 1000 buck Honda as your backup.

Welcome and good luck!!

[ErieBeach]

Ok first of all let me just say that looking at all your avatars in this reply is like the nicest eye candy ever ... I think I have GW fever!

Anyway, thanks everyone for all the useful advice.

No, I don't know much about mechanics and so on now (choke? carb? what's that?), but I'm very eager & willing to learn.

And this wouldn't be a daily driver or main family car. We've got a nice garage to keep it in (epoxy floor, painted, warm, clean) and it'll be tarped in the winter ... yeah I'm already planning the "important" stuff!

20+ years old is nothin ... our house is 50 years old and I've learned a lot in restoration there. (We restored the whole place to original shape, original vintage kitchen and baths and everything ... so we figure a "vintage" woody is a requisite.)

I don't know about buying a car sight unseen though. I'd have to go take a look first. During our house restoration I bought lots of old stuff sight unseen off eBay, but never a car. I did see one a couple weeks ago before joining this forum that I was VERY tempted to buy. It was in tan which seems an uncommon color and had an interesting overhang on the roof that I've never seen before:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290374345398

[HD_JEEP]

I believe that is an after market Lund Visor. I could be wrong tho.

Its a sun brow for the Wagons....

That was a good looking wagon.

[scotty1998]

There have been many times when I've declared that I'll be packing it in with mine. But I usually feel the love after a tirade or two. ;)

It's classic piece of Americana and most people who see me in mine stop to ask about it. They're good looking piglets, no doubt.

One thing is, be reasonable. There will not be a vehicle out there in the assumed budget I think you're after that won't need something done to it. Unless you're willing to fork out $20K for a "restored" truck; most of us are not, you need to expect that you'll be working on it at some point. Remember, all of the other comments about empty pockets and the like are from us working on our own vehicles. Imagine taking the rig to a repair guy all the time. It will literally drain you dry.

And, let's just say that you find the deal of a lifetime where everything has already been done to it that needs to be done. You still need basic mechanical knowledge to adjust timing, tune the carb, check vacuum, and understand the basics of owning something that they don't make or service anymore. I know I'll be shot on sight for saying this but most of this is covered in a Haynes or Chilton manual. They're great for basic mechanics but if you ever get into something more advanced then, you'll be wanting a full TSM.

I'm certainly not trying to scare you away but there is a reality to these things.

I certainly overpaid for mine. What was advertised as an excellent condition vehicle was probably that for a 20 year old truck but I really never thought in those terms at the time since I had the fever. I actually flew down to drive it back from Florida sight unseen and have some great stories to tell as a result. Since then, I have put a lot of work, time and money into my rig and there is always something lurking around the next corner (radiator next). In the end, I truly love it. It is unique and it brings a smile to my face. I'm known in the area as the "guy with the woody" and I like the fact that it can out run and out wheel just about anything on the road today. All for the price (that I paid) of about a 1/4 of a brandy new vehicle. And I don't have a car payment!

And, there's nothing like driving it through the Adriondack's each year. I know that it feels like it's home.

http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq102/scotty1998/Adirondacks/IMG_0286web.jpg

http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq102/scotty1998/Adirondacks/IMG_0287web.jpg


http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq102/scotty1998/Adirondacks/IMG_0296web.jpg


Hey Jay, how do you get those rims to look like that?

[Artificer]

Don't let the mechanically inclined thing get to you. Alot of people assume that tinkering with crap is a magic mystery ability that you grow up doing, so they don't even bother. As long as you have the right attitude you will be fine, just take it one step at a time. Owning a beater rig will force you to learn how to fix stuff, especially if it is your only mode of transportation.

On that note, take the advice of the folks on this forum. An FSJ should not be a vehicle for your family to rely on at this stage in the game. Working on my jeep is alot of fun, but i don't have to sweat turning it over quick or I'm riding the bus; I can take my time and walk away from it when I need a break.

Don't buy a car off ebay.

When going out to buy a rig bring a friend who has experience with older trucks or cars. Don't get pressured into a sale and be willing to wait for the right rig to come along. Remember that low mileage doesn't automatically mean the motor is solid. Stay away from alot of modding, especially lifts, if you can, wags seem to hold value better unmodified.

Being in the rust belt sucks, be prepared to compromise. Also take a look at Cherokee Chiefs (the full size), you may like those as well and that would give you more options.

FSJ's are a poor mans rig; they are unique and have a sort of rustic charm (not like the millionth k5 blazer or bronco you have passed on the road). Make sure it has a clear title, and I would shoot for no more than 3 grand at the max for a wag (1500 for a truck or cherk). you can usually grab these things for under 1000 so keep your eyes open. Don't put too much money into it, especially starting out; old cars are old, you fix one thing and another breaks, it's a viscous cycle that never ends. Rule of thumb starting out: if you rolled her over into a ditch, you could sign the title over to a salvor and walk away from it to fight another day.

Forget diesels. If you want a diesel buy a dodge or gmc (hell, even a ford); diesel swaps are prohibitively expensive, much more so than a regular engine swap, especially if someone else is doing the work. dropping a 4bt into an fsj is like pearls on swine :D

Welcome and good luck with your search.

[Jayrodoh]

Hey Jay, how do you get those rims to look like that?

Look like what? It looks like you're missing the front caps, and the gold paint might be missing from inside the spokes and around the rim.

[ErieBeach]

In the end, I truly love it. It is unique and it brings a smile to my face.

Those pics brought a smile to MY face! These are great looking vehicles!

[ErieBeach]

Don't let the mechanically inclined thing get to you. Alot of people assume that tinkering with crap is a magic mystery ability that you grow up doing, so they don't even bother. As long as you have the right attitude you will be fine, just take it one step at a time.

That's the way I look at it. I never worked on a car before but I never did a lot of things that I later ended up learning and sometimes even doing pretty good. I figure this is going to be the "fun" car and something to restore and so long as I'm not dumping all my money into it I'll be happy.

Don't buy a car off ebay.

Glad to hear this since it's what I already suspected. I'm sure it can work out for some, especially those who know what they're doing, but I don't think it's for me.


Also take a look at Cherokee Chiefs (the full size), you may like those as well and that would give you more options.

It would because there's a lot of them around here. I see them literally every day. They're nice but to me there's nothing like a GW. I don't really car about cars at all (except like classic cars and whatever) but a GW is the only vehicle that makes me think "boy that'd be great to drive one of those"!


Forget diesels. If you want a diesel buy a dodge or gmc (hell, even a ford); diesel swaps are prohibitively expensive, much more so than a regular engine swap, especially if someone else is doing the work. dropping a 4bt into an fsj is like pearls on swine :D


Ok, this is another thing I was wondering about so thanks for the input here too. I like how some old Mercedes and Volvo cars are diesel, good for gas economy, so I was pretty intrigued when I heard that there's GW diesel swaps out there. But since I'm a total purist when it comes to these I think I'd prefer the original engine. I saw a diesel swapped GW being sold locally but the new engine had over 100k miles too and the engine itself looked very rusty and old, which I thought was strange.

[indianafsj]

I disagree with the comment about using one for a daily driver, My wife and I share our 83 as a dd and i trust it completely, we take it on 300 mile trips to go see my family, drive it to the beach in the summers and camping on the weekends. These vehicles can be just a trustworthy as a "$1000 honda" as long as you take care of them. I drove mine everyday 45 minutes one way to work. It never let me down once. Routine maintenance is the key.

[scotty1998]

Look like what? It looks like you're missing the front caps, and the gold paint might be missing from inside the spokes and around the rim.Your rims look super shiny. Mine are all pitted and scarred. I tried using Mother's which helped a little bit but they're in pretty sorry shape. My pics don't reveal it too well.

[1cdccop]

One that's at least 75% rust free... And 100% SMOG free if you live in the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia. That would include any FSJ manufactured before 1976;)

The early models are pretty fundimental for the newbie mechanic and still have things like power steering and brakes, and automatic transmission. Happy hunting:fsj:

[joe]

The answer to your question, "What makes a good GW?" is YOU!
That pretty much sums it up.
Start with one in the best condition you can(doesn't mean newest or most expensive). Then expect to spend time maintaing it(in between and other than gas stops). If you're looking for a comfy low maint rig....keep looking elsewhere. Even the latest ones are now getting somewhat old and yeah there are still alot as daily drivers but in reality these are pretty much now hobby vehicles. Not for the lazy 'oooh grease is so icky or light of wallet owners. They require the owner spends time spinning wrenches or somebody you pay to spin'em.

[1cdccop]

That pretty much sums it up.
Start with one in the best condition you can(doesn't mean newest or most expensive). Then expect to spend time maintaing it(in between and other than gas stops). If you're looking for a comfy low maint rig....keep looking elsewhere. Even the latest ones are now getting somewhat old and yeah there are still alot as daily drivers but in reality these are pretty much now hobby vehicles. Not for the lazy 'oooh grease is so icky or light of wallet owners. They require the owner spends time spinning wrenches or somebody you pay to spin'em.

You do have a point!!! but some of us "light of wallet owners", are dreamers. And Joe, I love that signiture:thumbsup:

[1cdccop]

I love grease:eek:

[Fiodh. Argus]

The nice thing about these old beasts is that we can change a power steering pump and steering box in an afternoon, couldn't do that on a new Grand Cherokee! I discovered I'd have tounbolt the exhaust and lift the engine on a 2000 just to remove the oil pan.... so in some ways I am betting on the ease of maintenance being easier than having to work on a new vehicle. I am CONVINCED but don't have proof that eventually all the little items will be taken care of!

At least the financial investment is small compared to a brand new truck.

Good luck on your search. I just saw a later model wag in good shape sell for $18,600 on ebay, wow! That's not what any of us would want to pay I think.

[Artificer]

Also, if working on cars is something pretty new to you, this forum is an excellent resource. If you want to brush up on basic automotive tech, I suggest buying a used textbook off ebay or amazon for a couple of bucks. I got a copy of Automotive Technology 3rd edition that lives on top of my toilet tank. Just make sure that you get an older edition; on some textbooks they have cut out carb stuff.