V8 will not start -- advice needed

[janisgrin]

Hi, last fall i traded my ever Citroen CX Pallas for this 1979-360-th400-1339 green beast. I parked it for winter and recently started working on it. (incl. fabricating rear window, that was missing) After the winter the engine fired right up - no problem at all. but after a couple of days, it suudenly died. Semmed like bad battery or somethin with starter --insteleld new battery - the starter turns the engine for 1/4 or so and then stops. Rebuilt starter, relay, distributor, checked wiring - everything seems ok. the engine has 110K miles, is not rebuilt. This is the fisrt car i am working on -- what else could be the problem? Btw, I live in Latvia, and afaik there are maybe 2-4 more SJ here, but i have so far seen no one of them, and don't know any mechanic, who has experience with AMC v-8.

[MonsterMash]

Greetings from the land of Jeeps! I'd bet it would make a great story knowing how your Jeep ended up with you there in Latvia, but for the time being maybe we can help solve your motor problem. First off, I'm unsure waht you mean exactly when you say that "the starter turns the engine for 1/4 or so and then stops." Is this 1/4 revolution? If the motor won't turn a full revolution under power of a reliable starter/battery then there is some major internal problem. Do you recall what the oil pressure was when you first started the motor this spring? Some basic things to check when a motor won't start are: 1. check to make sure you have fuel (not an insult to your intelligence but rather always the first thing any of us should check), 2. check for spark ( you can pull a plug wire off a plug and stick a spare plug on the end or a paper clip or anything that will help arc the spark to the engine so you can verify it visually), 3. check to make sure fuel is getting to the carb. (can often see it when you pump the carb. linkage or undo the hose at the connection closest to the carb. and check for fuel flow) 4. check that there is unobstructed air-flow at carb air-horn (top opening). If your engine turns over and all of the above are present then your motor should run in some degree (it may run crappy but it should run). One problematic part that our Jeeps have is an electronic ignition module manufactured by Ford (on my '84 it's on the left wheel-well near the fire wall and it's roughly a 15cm square silver "box" about 5cm thick) which can interupt spark to the distributor intermittently/sporadically with no real pattern if faulty. This type of ignition was use in SJs from about '77 on up in North America. Just out of curiousity is yours left or right hand drive?

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'84GW360--"Spinner"
Bigger tires and better stereo but pretty much stock
4 inch lift by Jackstands
currently waiting for a donor transfer-case (have you signed your donor card?!)
Most everything works some of the time!
1st Annual Jefferson FSJ Mud Run:

http://home.earthlink.net/~worthservices/index.html

[janisgrin]

yes the starter turns the engine a liitle bit - aboout 1/4 or half revolution on the first attempt. the it does not turn anymore. if say, after half an hour I try again, the same happens. I am also starting to thik that there could be a mechanical problem, but for a big V8 engine with 100 k miles, is it likely? It seems more likely to me that somewhere there must be a short in the electrical system.. It goes like this: the starter engages, turns the motor a little bit, and then incrementaly, but quickly stops. I can check, if the engine can be rotated by hand, but how easily it must go with plugs out?

[MonsterMash]

Do your battery cables get hot if you try and crank the motor? Have you tried starting it with a jump start? What did you do when you rebuilt the starter? Change brushes?

------------------
'84GW360--"Spinner"
Bigger tires and better stereo but pretty much stock
4 inch lift by Jackstands
currently waiting for a donor transfer-case (have you signed your donor card?!)
Most everything works some of the time!
1st Annual Jefferson FSJ Mud Run:

http://home.earthlink.net/~worthservices/index.html

[janisgrin]

I don't know if the cables get hot - will check it out this evening. What if they do? Starter - changed brushes and a friend did something more, but in the end i took to a shop to check, and the guys said its ok. Jump start -- how do I do that? maybe i just don't know what jump start means in english ;(( btw, the jeep is left hand drive, i put a liitle bit fuel right in to the carb, spark seems to be ok, (it only fires once ar does not fire at all before it stops turning).

[MonsterMash]

When you hook up cables between your battery and that of a helper's vehicle (+ to + and - to -) that's a jump (or jump start or boost). By using a donor vehicle to supply extra amps you can usually turn your starter at a higher rpm and it makes starting easier (or possible) if your battery is weak. Since you have a good battery, and your starter has been checked by a pro, the only other thing that comes to mind are the cables and their connections. You should have a good ground; clean, tight terminal connections, and cables on the order of 2 or 4 guage (the bigger the better due to less resistance). I would definitely pull off the ground and sand the terminal connection point down to bear (shiney) metal. The reason I asked about the cables getting hot is that that is a sign of high resistance, usually caused by a poor connection in the circuit (or worn brushes,etc. in the starter).

------------------
'84GW360--"Spinner"
Bigger tires and better stereo but pretty much stock
4 inch lift by Jackstands
currently waiting for a donor transfer-case (have you signed your donor card?!)
Most everything works some of the time!
1st Annual Jefferson FSJ Mud Run:

http://home.earthlink.net/~worthservices/index.html

[janisgrin]

I see - did that jumpstart thing too. The connections are ok. I don't have a manual for SJ, but i could get one for XJ - are the 4.2 litre six and the V8 very different eectrically?

[MonsterMash]

So you checked the ground connection furthest from the battery as well? Did you test the starter out of the vehicle to see if it worked? Did you try starting in Neutral or rocking your gear lever a bit as you turn the key? Yes to everything!! Shucks! I'm at a loss now. The big consideration on you choice of manuals will be the age of the vehicle that it is written for. The newer rigs have lots of computerized stuff. If you can find a '70s CJ manual or any Jeep manual up until about the mid eighties you should be fine. Good luck!

------------------
'84GW360--"Spinner"
Bigger tires and better stereo but pretty much stock
4 inch lift by Jackstands
currently waiting for a donor transfer-case (have you signed your donor card?!)
Most everything works some of the time!
1st Annual Jefferson FSJ Mud Run:

http://home.earthlink.net/~worthservices/index.html

[80wag.Darryl]

it sounds like a connection problem to me.I would check and clean all connections,including battery cables.I've had this problem onoccasion,and it has allways been connection problems.My oppinion.

[243]

It sure sounds like a bad battery, battery cables or the chassis ground (ground from engine to frame) if the Wagoneers have them.

Are your headlights bright white when you turn them on?

If they are dim (yellow/orange), it points to the battery. Hook your booster cables back up and check your headlights again, if they are still dim, clean all of your battery connections.

Brand new batteries are sometimes bad or do not have a full charge. Maybe you can swap a battery from a running vehicle to completely eliminate that from the equation.

Good luck and keep us posted,

243

[Mud Thrasher]

Janis, do you have an amp meter? If so then you can check to see if you have juice going to your starter. Check all of your battery cables to make sure that they are good. I had a bad ground cable and couldn't even hardly tell by looking at it. You have a starter relay that your hot(positive) battery cable hooks to. If it has gone bad this could be your problem. If you can get a meter check to see if you have power going to the relay. Then check to see if you have power going from the relay to the starter. That should give you a good starting point and you can go from there trouble shooting.

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'78 Chief 360/quadra-trac
D-44 f&r/3.55 r&p/31x10.5x15 G/Year Mt's
dual exhaust
Mallory Unilite Dist.
Edelbrock 4bbl 1405 carb
lined gas tank
free rust/new body soon

[Dan Grdovic]

OK,
For your information (FYI), I would guess you've actually got a mechanical problem and not electrical. Something may be broken inside. However, before passing bad news, try this...

Let me mention what no one has mentioned to this point. It could be a starter solenoid going bad. This is a coil on the passenger side fender. The positive cable from the battery goes to one large terminal and the positive cable from the starter goes to the other large terminal. You may have as many as 3 or as few as one smaller terminals with push on connections. The smaller wires come from your ignition key and electrify the solenoid (coil) which then in turn connects the starter. Sometimes when the solenoids go bad, they do crazy things.

[YaZahX]

This happened to me one time, my ac compressor was engaged so make sure your ac compressor is not engaged, if its not, get new cables for the hell of it and do the jump start if that don’t work...I don’t know...

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John Z.
My 82 Larado (http://www.virtue.nu/yazahx/jeep1.htm)
YaZahX@aol.com
"Yes that is a Real Jeep, yes the Jeep is older than me."
1982 Cherokee Larado
Edelbrock cam
Edelbrock intake manifold
Holley Projection
31” BFGoodrich

[jeepbob]

Is it possible that moisture got in the engine? It sounds like the motor is siezed from moisture in cylinder. Try pulling the plugs and putting a little diesel fuel in each cylinder. Then put a wrench on the end of the crank and turn motor backwards, then forwards until you can turn it around several times. once this is done crank over motor with starter and ignition unhooked. This will make a bit of a mess as the fuel oil blows out of the cylinders so be prepared. Put the plugs back in and it should start.
BY the way the Citroens are as exotic to us as the FSJ are to you, problably more so as they can not be brought in this country due to ingnorant laws.
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65 wag. 360/edelbrock rb4/t400/20 t-case/4:10 d27/d44 tracloc/onboard air/onboard 110v power(no inverter)/1999 Lincoln t.c.leather buckets/taurus ctr console/winch/33x12.50/tunes/water proof door pads
soon to have new motor/d44frt/d60r(4:10)welded diff/custom bumpers
see ya in da mud

[This message has been edited by jeepbob (edited April 15, 2001).]

[janisgrin]

Thank you very much for helping me out. Indeed, the ground cable "has gone bad". The funny thing is, that the cable was changed previous year and visually seemed "better than new". Hehe, you can never know. I was almost starting to believe that i will really need to take the engine apart. Now -- to the mud. I will take some pics, when i'll get my camera back. Thanks once more.