Any suggestion on cam's ???

[Gladi8r]

I had planned on swapping out the cam, lifters and pushrods on my 88 GW when I replace the intake and carb with the Edelbrock. I was thinking maybe the Summit K8600 but have found them to be on back order, and have no idea when they will be available. I need to do this pretty soon and cant wait for them to be available. Anybody have any other suggestions for any other cam's and the reason why they picked what they did??

[kreb]

they are made by super stock industries. you can call PAW and get the same cam without the summit name. give them the specs from the summit catalogue and they will give you their part #. that is what i did when summit was on back order.

benjamin

[Gladi8r]

Wow, good to know. Thanks for the tip :D :D

[Don S]

Originally posted by Gladi8r:
I had planned on swapping out the cam, lifters and pushrods on my 88 GW when I replace the intake and carb with the Edelbrock. I was thinking maybe the Summit K8600 but have found them to be on back order, and have no idea when they will be available. I need to do this pretty soon and cant wait for them to be available. Anybody have any other suggestions for any other cam's and the reason why they picked what they did??..
Gladi8r:...
Maybe these links could be helpful they are
IFSJA THREADS of cam in the truck installs that jasonthomasfrance did early IN 2002 Hope this helps…CAM LINKS
http://www.ifsja.org/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=012768 CAM
http://www.ifsja.org/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=011361 CAM
http://www.ifsja.org/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=011025 CAM
http://www.ifsja.org/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=010878 CAM
http://www.ifsja.org/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=008383;p=7
http://www.ifsja.org/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=008544 CAM

Good Luck ;) and CUL… ds..
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[1BAD401]

Crane 260

http://www.fmtc.com/~wagenmann/Images/Crane260.jpg

Great cam for a 360!!!! No lope at idle and has great low-mid range!!!! I have it in my 401 but I need/want a little more lope and rpm ban!!! :D

[Panther]

Hey Don, I'm in the process of a cam swap myself.

Posted some (poor quality) pics on my site.

http://www.panther4x4.com/Cherokee/Engine/Cam.html

[Al Johnson]

Panther, and anyone else putting in a new timing set:

Be sure the oil passage inside the cam sprocket bore, opposite the keyway, is open all the way through. I found that the oil passge in my brand new sprocket was not cast all the way through, and it would have prevented getting oil to the chain or the distributor drive gear.

Al

[Panther]

Al,
I need you to help me out with that one a little....
The "oil passage inside the cam sprocket bore"?
I'm not sure what you mean, the thing for the fuel pump and the dizzy gear are on the cam, is there a bore on it also?
Lee

[FSJeeper]

I do not think the Summitt K8600 is a wise choice for the AMC 360 that will see normal street duty and off roading. This cam will make max torque in the high 2000's/low 3000's and HP at even higher rpms. Additionally, in order to benefit from the lift/duration, intake/fuel delivery and exhaust mods will have to be made moving the power range to even higher rpms. Unless you are building a FSJ to hot rod on the street, this is the wrong cam. This cam will also acceleration wear in your cam/valve train and you would be brain dead to use this cam with old stock springs.

Max cam for a 360 is a 260 which I have used with very good results. The one I ran was a Competition Cam but it still moved the bottom end torque into higher rpms ranges. Not bad, but not optimum.

I think the best cam out there for an AMC 360 in a FSJ is the Crane Powermax with the 248/260 split duration or max, their 260/272 cam.

If you look at their 272/284 cam which is very close to the Summit K8600, power is made from 2000-5000 and cruise should be between 2600-3000.
Not ideal for a real world 4x4.

http://cranecams.com/master/apps/amc1.htm

[Josh D]

My 360 goes to the machine shop tomorrow! I'm going with the CompCams 270H Magnum and the "K" kit (valve springs, keepers, locks, lifters and double roller timing set). Its similar to the Summit 8600 on the exhaust side, but has more duration on the intake side. It should be a good match for my 4.10 gears and 3200 cruise rpm.
Al, I read about the TC groove on the AMC website, was that you who brought it up?

[Al Johnson]

Originally posted by Panther:
Al,
I need you to help me out with that one a little....
The "oil passage inside the cam sprocket bore"?
I'm not sure what you mean, the thing for the fuel pump and the dizzy gear are on the cam, is there a bore on it also?
LeeWhen I say bore, I mean the hole in the center for the camshaft. In a correctly made cam sprocket, there will be a square slot (keyway) running the length of the bore. Exactly opposite the keyway should be a half-round slot running the length of the bore. This is the oil passage. It supplies pressurized oil to the front face of the cam sprocket, to be slung outward for chain oil, and to the matching oil passage inside the bore of the fuel pump cam, and then to the distibutor drive gear, which has holes to let the oil out for distributor gear lube. Looks like that oil would also spray all over inside the timing cover while the dizzy drive gear spins, giving a nice oil bath to everything.

BUT- Some cam sprockets (Dynagear made, maybe others) have the oil passage blocked in the center, due to a casting defect. Then no oil to the chain or the fuel pump cam or the distributor drive gears. Bad. So make sure you have the oil passage all the way thru the cam sprocket bore. Just file it out if it's not correct.

Al

[Al Johnson]

Originally posted by Josh D:
Al, I read about the TC groove on the AMC website, was that you who brought it up?Most likely, I did post about it there, here, and on Jeeps Unlimited. Trying to spread the word to save people from disaster if possible. I'd love for this to become common knowledge, like the other oil problems in AMC engines.

Al

[krob725]

hey AL
anyway to post a pic of this mistery hole? i read on another post where you told about it also.
thanks
krob725

[FSJeeper]

Josh, you will be making peak torque at around 4000 rpms and peak HP at around 5000 rpms with the 270 magnum cam. Off the line power and low rpm crawling will be terrible. That cam falls on its face until the mid 2000's. I really wish you would re-consider your cam choice and swap it before you put it in.

While going to the University of Colorado years ago I put a Crane Fireball cam (only the more elder members of this site will remember that one) in my FSJ thinking it would be the cats meow. It totally ruined my FSJ off road and was not good on the road except at higher rpms.

I am positive you will regret this cam choice. Please reconsider.

[Panther]

Thanks for the heads up Al, I'll double check it tomorrow.

Also I added your info to my site, good stuff

Lee

[jeepjake]

Originally posted by FSJeeper:
Josh, you will be making peak torque at around 4000 rpms and peak HP at around 5000 rpms with the 270 magnum cam. Off the line power and low rpm crawling will be terrible. That cam falls on its face until the mid 2000's. I really wish you would re-consider your cam choice and swap it before you put it in.

While going to the University of Colorado years ago I put a Crane Fireball cam (only the more elder members of this site will remember that one) in my FSJ thinking it would be the cats meow. It totally ruined my FSJ off road and was not good on the road except at higher rpms.

I am positive you will regret this cam choice. Please reconsider.Will agree with this in part. Have used the PAW (SSI) cam with great success in a 401 that was .030, ported/milled heads, decked block, 5 angle valves, headers, dual exhaust, but...., I also advanced the cam 2 or 4 degrees (can't remember which it came out?) and that worked well to bring the power/torque to the good towing range.

As far as the 360 though, I installed this cam in my 360 (.030 over, same mods as the 401 except pre-smog stock manifolds, singe 2.5" exhaust, hi-flow cat/muffler, crane roller rockers, PC seals) and did not advance it (degreed to 0) and it does fall flat till about 2200 rpm and then comes on. Take off SUCKS! Am looking at going in and advancing it a bit to see if it'll help, but I think the engine just will not flow enough for this cam.

Tried a Fireball in the 401 once and got 1 or 2 mpg more than an Isky cam I originally installed in it and substantially less horsepower, switched back to and Isky (that I asked them to custom grind) and that one didn't do much better. Once I tried the SSI cam, that's what I stuck with for every build, now I'm rethinking that in the 360.

[Al Johnson]

Originally posted by krob725:
hey AL
anyway to post a pic of this mistery hole? i read on another post where you told about it also.
thanks
krob725Unfortunately, no. You'll just have to go by the description, that on the inside of the sprocket hole, there should be a square slot and a half-round slot on opposite sides. The half-round slot is the oil passage.

Al

[Josh D]

FSJeeper, peak torque around 3000-3500 is what I'm looking for. My J-truck is not my trail rig, so absolute grunt off idle is not needed. With 4.10 gears and an automatic, off idle is basically 1200-1500 rpm. CompCams claims a usable rpm range of 1800-5500 with the 270. I figured I could sacrifice a "little" on the bottom to gain power in the rpm range that my motor see's (2000-3500). I certainly do not want to overcam, but I'm not building a grunt only motor thats dead at 4000 rpm either. This is mostly a street truck that will also occasionally due mild trails and eventually tow my YJ to the trails. You seem familar with elevation, so you know the need to build cylinder pressure with a 8.5:1/9.0:1 motor. I also may be moving back to Phoenix where I could get away with a little more cam. So, what would you recommend for a 360, 9:1, good intake and carb(Edelbrock/Holley), good exhaust(headers/Flowmaster), 4.10 gears, 33" tires and auto that see's limited offroad, see's freeway (3200 rpm @ 70) and around town driving, that will tow 3500 lbs. of Jeep uphill? How about the CompCams 268H High Energy? Its still a single pattern cam thats a little "smaller" than the 270 Mag. With the dogleg head flow numbers and the exhaust I'm running, I don't think a dual pattern cam modeled after a sbc that favors the exhaust side is what I need. I'm up for suggestions, what do you think?

[1BAD401]

I'm telling you the Crane 260 is the way to go, if you don't believe me ask Jode (Joe)! He got a ride in my Chero last Saturday!!! :D For an all-round cam this is the ticket!!!! ;)

[Josh D]

1BAD401, what gears are you running and what is the approximate weight of your Chero?

[FSJeeper]

Josh, with the 270, you are sacrificing gas mileage, low low rpm idle, engine stress, and low rpm torque and HP. With all of those very important sacrifices you are only gaining a little more torque and power at the top end wear you will not be driving at most of the time. 4000 rpm peak torque and over 5000 rpm's peak HP.
In order to cruise at peak torque, you would have to be going about 95 mph with your setup. Bottom line, this cam was designed for Hot Rods, not FSJ's.

So for sure if you want to cruise at 3000 to 3500 rpms, the 270 cam is not the one. Further to this,
since you are towing, especially in the mountains, you need off the line low rpm torque and you will hate the 270 for towing.

Looking at the Compcams.com website, your choice seems pretty obvious. Go look at the dyno charts. While this is off a built SBC, the trend results in your AMC 360 would be similar.

http://compcams.com/information/Products/Camshafts/DynoSheets/

What you want is the flatest Torque and HP curves you can get from the lowest rpm range through your operating range. If you look at the high intensity series cams, the smallest one, the 250/260 cam seems to best meet your needs. It provides the best torque and HP from idle throughout your designated rpm operating range, 3000-3500 than the bigger cams.

You have a very nice looking truck and I would really hate for you to make the mistake so many of us here, myself, JeepJake with his 360, Riverbeast and others here have made over camming our engines.

Please consider this. I am positive you will be very disappointed with the 270 and will be posting about the negitive effects it had on your FSJ so others can learn from this common mistake.

[Al Johnson]

FSJeeper,

Now you've gotten me worried about my cam choice. I'm building a 360 for street, mild trail, and some towing. I'd like a fair amount of street performance. This will be in a YJ. (Sorry!) i have a K8600 cam in there, too late to change it now. Should I advance the cam 2° to help the low end? I've been thinking that with 31" tires, 4.10 gears, and 360 cubes that the low end would take care of itself. Maybe I was wrong. Opinions?

Thanks!
Al

(Performer intake, Performer 600CFM carb, stock CR cast pistons.)

[FSJeeper]

Al,

The negitive effects of the K8600 will be less of an issue for you because it sounds like street performance is your main focus and the YJ is a lot lighter than a FSJ requiring less rpm torque to get it motivated and you are running smaller diameter tires putting your YJ in higher operating ranges. You will definitely have a hot rod YJ with that cam.

In your case I do not think the issue will be nearly as big as it definitely will be for Josh.

There are 3 easy things you can do to bring your torque and HP down into lower rpms with that K8600.

1. Intake manifold with smaller diameter runners and a carb with smaller primaries like the qjet.
2. Smaller diameter exhaust system if you have gone to headers with primaries over 1.5" and pipe over 2".
3. Crane Hi-intensity lifters which will do the most to solve this problem. These lifters bleed down at lower rpms giving you less lift but pump up at high rpms giving you the full lift the cam was designed for. Sort of the best of both worlds. I have used these and can vouch for them. They work.

[gp_frk]

Pascal you got a few minutes to waste on a youngin on MIRC?

[Josh D]

Al, I don't think you have anything to worry about. 4.10 gears, 31"'s and the weight of a YJ being the factors. Cam choice has more to do with the overall combination than anything else. With lower weight and lower overall gearing, you can get away with a cam that comes on later in the rpm range and makes more peak power. I hope you don't plan on using the stock rearend in that YJ with the 360 though!!

[Josh D]

Originally posted by FSJeeper:

Looking at the Compcams.com website, your choice seems pretty obvious. Go look at the dyno charts. While this is off a built SBC, the trend results in your AMC 360 would be similar.
What you want is the flatest Torque and HP curves you can get from the lowest rpm range through your operating range. If you look at the high intensity series cams, the smallest one, the 250/260 cam seems to best meet your needs. It provides the best torque and HP from idle throughout your designated rpm operating range, 3000-3500 than the bigger cams.
.Your insight and experience with the AMC V8's in heavy FSJ's is appreciated, and dyno's don't lie. However, they do not list Xtreme Energy cams for the AMC V8's. I am liking the 268 High Energy cam though. They seem to recommend it for performance daily drivers and claim to have a big power gains for pickups and towing. My previous experience with camming motors comes from when I was building chevy small and big blocks in 'A' body cars. In my 69 Chevelle, I had a 10.5:1 small block with good 186 casting heads, Victor Jr., 750 holley, and a 290 dur (adv) cam. With 4.56's, Pro Trac G-60's, open headers, auto and stock converter, and it would run mid 13's at a 4700 ft elev. track. I put a 4 speed, full exhaust, radials, and a 3.08 rearend so I could drive it from NM to WA where I was stationed. It wouldn't run worth a s&#t at sea level (between the tall gears and backing off the timing because of ping and low grade gas). It was overcammed for that combo. I agree, the 270 is probably a little much. But, if you look at the charts again, the flatest and the highest avereage torque curve was the 274. The smaller cam had higher peak torque, though. Look at what they say about the 268H High Energy and tell me what you think. I haven't bought anything yet!!

[Al Johnson]

FSJeeper and Josh D,

Thanks for your comments. That's pretty much the line of thought I was taking, that lighter weight, lower gears, etc. would make up for the higher RPM bias of the cam selected. Still think I might go 2° advanced, though.

I'll be using the D35 axle temporarily. Hope it doesn't break before I find a Ford 8.8 for it!

Al

[FSJeeper]

Josh, the 274 chart starts at 2500 rpms cause it is gutless below that. You would definitely hate this cam in your FSJ especially with towing. If you are stuck on the Comp Cams, get the 260 as a max.

You are looking for good low end torque and excellent mid range torque and power. The 260 fits that bill.

The 268 has less bottom end torque and makes it peak torque at 4000 rpms. Once again, you would have to cruise at 95 mph to get the benefit of the extra torque.

[Josh D]

Originally posted by FSJeeper:
Josh, the 274 chart starts at 2500 rpms cause it is gutless below that. Your right, I read the chart wrong! I wasn't suggesting that cam, just pointing out what I thought I had read :rolleyes:
I really appreciate your suggestions and will consider all things before I buy anything. Thanks!

[1BAD401]

Originally posted by Josh D:
1BAD401, what gears are you running and what is the approximate weight of your Chero?I have 3.56 gears and I weight around 4800. It pulls real good to 4500-4800rpm, with the new cam I plan of pulling it to 5500-5800rpm! :D

[Josh D]

Originally posted by 1BAD401:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Josh D:
1BAD401, what gears are you running and what is the approximate weight of your Chero?I have 3.56 gears and I weight around 4800. It pulls real good to 4500-4800rpm, with the new cam I plan of pulling it to 5500-5800rpm! :D </font>[/QUOTE]1BAD401, are you going up to the PowerMax 272?

[1BAD401]

Originally posted by Josh D:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 1BAD401:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Josh D:
1BAD401, what gears are you running and what is the approximate weight of your Chero?I have 3.56 gears and I weight around 4800. It pulls real good to 4500-4800rpm, with the new cam I plan of pulling it to 5500-5800rpm! :D </font>[/QUOTE]1BAD401, are you going up to the PowerMax 272?</font>[/QUOTE]Yes sir!!! :D My brother had it in his 401!! :cool: It ran awesome, wish I'd put that cam in the first place, live and learn I guess. With headers, 2200rpm stall and that cam he picked up a full second and 5mph in the 1/4. I'm also doing some head work and going with the Davis dizzy, this should be a good jump for me! If I was to do it over again with a 360 I'd stay with the crane 260, headwork, headers, intake, edelbrock 600 and dual exhuast. Don't get my wrong the combo I have works great in the 401, I just like rpms, have you ever heard a 401 at 6,000rpm! :D You'd swear it was a small block chevy coming up the road, NOT its a 79 Chero!!! :cool:

[Josh D]

1BAD401, That cam is very similar to the 8600! Check it out:
Crane 272
dur @ .050 216/228 112* sep lift .484/.512
PAW/Summit 8600
dur @ .050 214/224 112* sep lift .472/.496

The 8600 is patterned the same, just a hair smaller! Maybe this IS the cam for the 360! My Jeep weighs approx 4200 lbs. and with 4.10's, this should work pretty good! 1BAD401, what do you think?

[1BAD401]

Originally posted by Josh D:
1BAD401, That cam is very similar to the 8600! Check it out:
Crane 272
dur @ .050 216/228 112* sep lift .484/.512
PAW/Summit 8600
dur @ .050 214/224 112* sep lift .472/.496

The 8600 is patterned the same, just a hair smaller! Maybe this IS the cam for the 360! My Jeep weighs approx 4200 lbs. and with 4.10's, this should work pretty good! 1BAD401, what do you think?It looks pretty close the only thing I worry about it that you might have a little loss in bottom end in a 360. In my 401 I can take a little loss of bottom in with the extra cubes, in a 360 you might be pushing it a little. Are you planning a little stall in the future? Also what is the recommended rpm range with that cam? Either way I think you'll be happy, if your like me and like the rpm and don't do much off-road stuff I'd say go with the 8600 or Crane 272. If it doesn't work out a cam change is not that big of deal anyway!!! ;) Just a little more money!!!

[Josh D]

Originally posted by 1BAD401:
[QUOTE]the only thing I worry about it that you might have a little loss in bottom end in a 360. I believe I'll make up for it by being lighter and lower geared than your Chero. As long as the cam comes on at 1500 rpm and pulls hard up to 5000 rpm, I'm fine, as that would match my induction/exhaust systems and gearing.