Decision Made...SOA now I have questions about shocks, steering, etc. [Archive]

ClovisMan

10-07-2009, 09:15 AM

I have the cash to lift my waggy finally and I cannot make up my mind if I want to do a 6 inch spring lift or a SOA. I know the benefits and draw backs to both so that is not the problem. The problem is getting someone to come over and weld the front spring pads on the axle and weld the shackle flip kit in after I have it bolted up.
As I understand it, you just can't pop out the old mig welder and expect it hold and I don't want to constantly have to repair the thing. Also, I don't know where to actually put the spring pads (angles and whatnot).

Anyone know of a mobile welding service in the Texas Gulf Coast area? Maybe I need to have a Work Day and offer Fajitas and Ritas.

Casey

10-07-2009, 09:49 AM

The new SOA perches go on the top of the tubes in the same location and angle as the original SUA perches. I've used a mig-welder to install plenty of perches. Mind you it's a badass welder not a 110v 20a flux-core unit. I did however, use my 110 flux core to weld up the SF brackets after I bolted it together. That worked just fine.

rustywagoneers_com

10-07-2009, 11:23 AM

If you think you EVER will want to go with bigger axles, do the SOA, not the 6 inch springs.

None of the axles you will want to buy if you go bigger will be set up for SUA. Not impossible to make them SUA - but money not well spent if you buy the springs and get to where you wheel so hard that you need bigger axles next year.

Edit: Hey, Casey - nice title! (Jeep Polygamist) I have been advocating Jeeppolygamy for quite some time now.

Casey

10-07-2009, 12:16 PM

:thumbsup: Keep the faith brother Dave!

Tad

10-07-2009, 12:42 PM

The problem is getting someone to come over and weld the front spring pads on the axle and weld the shackle flip kit in after I have it bolted up.
As I understand it, you just can't pop out the old mig welder and expect it hold and I don't want to constantly have to repair the thing. Also, I don't know where to actually put the spring pads (angles and whatnot).
I'd bet we have several members in your area that can help you with any welding you might not feel comportable with.
GMAW (mig) be fine, I can't recall us ever having a member loose a perch and I'd be willing to bet most folks don't weld a rear flip kit on, except for those inboarding under the frame.
Perch angle is not hard, here are my instructions but the concept will apply to any perches you weld on for a SOA.
http://members.cox.net/ttsfabworks/Perch%20Install.JPG

CutterN55

10-07-2009, 01:29 PM

Wished I'd have done the SOA. I've got Bj's 6" and it rides rough as Hell and I've flexed it and beat it to soften up the springs and it's better, but You'll get a softer ride and a lot better flex going SOA.

ClovisMan

10-07-2009, 08:07 PM

Could someone please review the attached cart from BJ's and let me know if I need to add/delete/change any of the items before I order.

Right now I have stock springs and suspension if that helps. I appreciate it.

ClovisMan

10-07-2009, 08:10 PM

Also check out this score for $200.00. 37x13x16 Boggers on 16x10's. I know the tires are a bit large, but I can probably recoup all my money by selling tires only and make out with some free rims.

billyrb

10-07-2009, 08:30 PM

I've got Bj's 6" and it rides rough as Hell and I've flexed it and beat it to soften up the springs and it's better.....

That's interesting, as you seem to be the only one that has said that. If installed per our instructions, and broken in per the instructions, it is actually a nice comfortable ride.

Yes, SOA will be softer, but that is because you are using worn out stock springs that are spongy.

shackwrrr

10-07-2009, 09:21 PM

El_Diablo

10-07-2009, 09:56 PM

which is where all of the cost is unfortunately.... if it wasn't for that i would've already gone SOA

ClovisMan

10-08-2009, 04:24 AM

with SOA high steer or crossover steering is a must. with the springs up top they will be in the way of the drag link even with a DPA so you have to go up on top of the spring with a flat top knuckle milled and drilled for a steering arm. Or BJs has a Cast version of crossover steering.

http://www.bjsoffroad.com/CartGenie/prod-883.htm easiest way to do it

so i would lose the DPA and get the x-over steering kit.I should have mentioned that I made a deal already to purcase this:
http://shop.cranehiclearance.com/product.sc?categoryId=2&productId=19
It also comes with new balljoints and studs. It doesn't have the spacer to raise the steering arm as high as the BJs kit, hence the DPA.

wickedwagon767

10-08-2009, 04:33 AM

I agree with the SOA over the 6" SUA suspension. The more arch springs have the rougher they ride. Variances is spring cut and design can alter that a little.

Your parts list looks good. I reccomend only using the 4"dropped pitman arm until you can afford crossover steering. I had a '78 Wagoneer that was SOA with a dropped pitman arm. The steering was "fine" at low speeds but the bumpsteer was very noticable at speed.

Don't forget new U-bolts and if you're going to keep the stock springs front/rear replace the bushings in the spring eyes. Also, its not necessary,but if I was you I'd go ahead and do a basic leaf spring rebuild with new center pins and new tephlon pads inbetween the leaves. A little sanding and a coat of paint will keep them well for a while.

If I was near Houston, I'd be more than willing to come out for a work day. I can't weld,but I can grind and beat out stubborn bolts:cool:

Casey

10-08-2009, 05:57 AM

That's interesting, as you seem to be the only one that has said that. If installed per our instructions, and broken in per the instructions, it is actually a nice comfortable ride.

Yes, SOA will be softer, but that is because you are using worn out stock springs that are spongy.
Ummm no he aint Ryan...

The War Wagon rides like a hay wagon! :p

Sounds like ClovisMan is sold on SOA.
My .02
Do the high steer and be done with it.
You could do high steer a lot cheaper than the CHC set up. Sourcing parts may take some time, but you could save a bunch of money over a 'system/kit'.

RTFM

10-08-2009, 06:18 AM

Casey

10-08-2009, 08:02 AM

Just a note on the bolt together high steer, I had a '75 K-20 Chevy with a bolt together high steer and had them all sheer off at the same time.

Left me with no steering and stranded. Something to think about.
:omfg: How did that happen?

You're referring to the drilled and tapped knuckles with studs/washers/arms?

billyrb

10-08-2009, 08:17 AM

ClovisMan

10-08-2009, 09:04 AM

Ummm no he aint Ryan...

The War Wagon rides like a hay wagon! :p

Sounds like ClovisMan is sold on SOA.
My .02
Do the high steer and be done with it.
You could do high steer a lot cheaper than the CHC set up. Sourcing parts may take some time, but you could save a bunch of money over a 'system/kit'.I'm getting the Crane knuckle with arm, balljoints and studs for $250.00. After that, all I need is to take the TRE off my parts wag and cut and splice with the TRE on my 88 to make it reach, right?

CutterN55

10-08-2009, 09:09 AM

I still stand by my statement....when installed & broken in per the instructions, they are a nice ride....and a lot of folks would agree. If you want rough, try a rough country lift and tell me what you think :D

Dude I love your products and love the lift, but it'll jar your teeth. I've put in many leaf spring lifts in the past and I still followed the instructions. Pretty hard to mess up a leaf spring lift... Did break it in too, and re-torqued, and still continue to break it in every chance I get:D got any other suggestions?

ClovisMan

10-08-2009, 09:11 AM

Dude I love your products and love the lift, but it'll jar your teeth. I've put in many leaf spring lifts in the past and I still followed the instructions. Pretty hard to mess up a leaf spring lift... Did break it in too, and re-torqued, and still continue to break it in every chance I get:D got any other suggestions?Come on folks!! Stay on topic. I'm looking for answers about my steering. LOL!!

CutterN55

10-08-2009, 09:25 AM

Sorry Bro. Just discussing the original topic of SOA vs 6" spring... Didn't mean to jack your thread, and I'm sure as hell not going to be on the "bash Bj's thread" because that's not how I feel at all. I just wish I would have gone with maybe their smaller springs and SOA with bigger meats and some more cutting.

fulsizjeep

10-08-2009, 09:43 AM

Clovis, it is all good. Just about every thread on this board gets distraction of some kind or another before it is done. :D I am watching this one with curiosity myself. :thumbsup:

Casey

10-08-2009, 10:05 AM

I'm getting the Crane knuckle with arm, balljoints and studs for $250.00. After that, all I need is to take the TRE off my parts wag and cut and splice with the TRE on my 88 to make it reach, right?
$250 per side is better than $325.
So does that mean you're doing a cross over set up?

If so you'll only need to make a new draglink for the cross over.
Take the draglink off the stock tierod and leave the tierod in the stock location.
You could use the parts rig steering links to build the draglink from the arm to the steering gear.
Some DOM tubing and a welder...

ClovisMan

10-08-2009, 10:06 AM

Clovis, it is all good. Just about every thread on this board gets distraction of some kind or another before it is done. :D I am watching this one with curiosity myself. :thumbsup:I know, I know! LOL. I was just anxious to get feedback on the crossover steering arm.

BTW...You did get the seat covers and interior parts, right? Have you put them in Phoebe yet?

fulsizjeep

10-08-2009, 10:18 AM

I know, I know! LOL. I was just anxious to get feedback on the crossover steering arm.

BTW...You did get the seat covers and interior parts, right? Have you put them in Phoebe yet?:D I hear ya. Oh Man - yes, the seat covers came in just fine and are on hold until I get back from a break in Las Cruces. THANKS!

BTW, you made the right choice on SOA. 6" springs are more for polished asphalt stompers. :hide:

j20brett

10-08-2009, 11:02 AM

6" springs are more for polished asphalt stompers. :hide:
Hmmm...it woulda worked well on your waggy then eh? I could take my tow rig up black bear...:D

O and to not hijack this thread anymore, ill add tech. Steering. 2 options. Full highsteer or cross over steering. highsteer is twice the price of cross over but it gets all your steering up out of the way. Shocks - dont even worry about them until you finish lifting it. Then flex it out and measure compression and extension lengths. Find shocks that fit accordingly. Might need ford f250 shock towers (search for PN - its been posted alot). Driveshaft issues. Going to need to be extended at least and will have to modify the trans crossmember since the shaft will droop more.

fulsizjeep

10-08-2009, 11:05 AM

My GW is no where near polished. :cool: Would you take your tow rig on Steel Bender in Moab?

ClovisMan

10-08-2009, 11:10 AM

$250 per side is better than $325.
So does that mean you're doing a cross over set up?

If so you'll only need to make a new draglink for the cross over.
Take the draglink off the stock tierod and leave the tierod in the stock location.
You could use the parts rig steering links to build the draglink from the arm to the steering gear.
Some DOM tubing and a welder...Yes, just a simple crossover for now. I was getting draglink and TRE mixed up, but yeah that what I was thinking. If my draglink needs to be longer, I could just take the long side off the parts rig and cut it to fit and either weld it, or use one of those splice brackets.

ClovisMan

10-08-2009, 11:12 AM

Hmmm...it woulda worked well on your waggy then eh? I could take my tow rig up black bear...:D

O and to not hijack this thread anymore, ill add tech. Steering. 2 options. Full highsteer or cross over steering. highsteer is twice the price of cross over but it gets all your steering up out of the way. Shocks - dont even worry about them until you finish lifting it. Then flex it out and measure compression and extension lengths. Find shocks that fit accordingly. Might need ford f250 shock towers (search for PN - its been posted alot). Driveshaft issues. Going to need to be extended at least and will have to modify the trans crossmember since the shaft will droop more.Okay, so don't buy the shocks or the DPA. I'll remove those items and order the rest

j20brett

10-08-2009, 11:27 AM

My GW is no where near polished. :cool: Would you take your tow rig on Steel Bender in Moab?

If i had a bigger tow rig to take it back :D Just givin ya a hard time...wish i had the access to all the wheelin yall do.

j20brett

10-08-2009, 11:29 AM

Okay, so don't buy the shocks or the DPA. I'll remove those items and order the rest

Correct. You shouldnt need the DPA. You will more than likely need a steering arm spacer for the pass side to clear the spring. Ive got a set and the studds ill let go for cheap.

fulsizjeep

10-08-2009, 11:39 AM

If i had a bigger tow rig to take it back :D Just givin ya a hard time...wish i had the access to all the wheelin yall do.It is a healthy volley, no worries. ;) I wish I had more time off to wheel the sweet spots out here. :o

j20brett

10-08-2009, 12:05 PM

Forgot about this also.

http://www.partsmike.com/store/store.php?crn=219&rn=1505&action=show_detail

RTFM

10-13-2009, 06:07 PM

:omfg: How did that happen?

You're referring to the drilled and tapped knuckles with studs/washers/arms?

Sorry missed the reply.
Yup the bolts sheered off at the mating junction if the cone spacers / washers where they enter in to the knuckle over the studs.

It was a case of metal fatigue. I have Kodak pics somewhere if/when I find them I'll scan them and post them up so you can see where it happened.

It was quite sobering, just glad I didn't lose it in town.

phatmax95

10-16-2009, 06:51 PM

with SOA high steer or crossover steering is a must. with the springs up top they will be in the way of the drag link even with a DPA so you have to go up on top of the spring with a flat top knuckle milled and drilled for a steering arm. Or BJs has a Cast version of crossover steering.

http://www.bjsoffroad.com/CartGenie/prod-883.htm easiest way to do it

so i would lose the DPA and get the x-over steering kit.

Wrong. Never had an interference issue.

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=96594

wickedwagon767

10-17-2009, 04:10 AM

Come on folks!! Stay on topic. I'm looking for answers about my steering. LOL!!

:lol:

duncanstives

10-17-2009, 06:29 AM

I am using the DPA as well as crossover. Also I think your best bet for a drag link if you gonna be welding a new one from threaded inserts and 1.5 O.D DOM tube with .25in wall... I have all the parts here and will probablly be welding it up today and its WAY more beefy looking than the stock links... Definitely making me think of making a whole new tie rod the same way.

Oh yeah: A guy from Ebay did my knuckle for $150 including machining, drilling, tapping, a high steer arm, studs and other fasteners... Pretty sweet deal... The knuckle is even machined with a keyway type thing that fits with a mating protrusion from the highsteer arm for added strength.

wickedwagon767

10-17-2009, 01:21 PM

El_Diablo

10-17-2009, 02:21 PM

think im going to try the drop pitman myself until i can afford high steer...

ClovisMan

10-17-2009, 02:42 PM

I believe "parts mike" has drag link extensions that can be used with the stock drag link to avoid having to build a new one. RiverBeast and several others used that extension with the steering arm spacer to accomplish the high-steer

unless you want to build your ownDo you know what part number it is. I either cannot find it, or I don't know what I'm looking at (Which is probably the real problem.)

wickedwagon767

10-17-2009, 03:32 PM

Do you know what part number it is. I either cannot find it, or I don't know what I'm looking at (Which is probably the real problem.)

No, I don't have the part number. I called Parts Mike a year and 1/2 ago inquiring about it and the other components he offered for high-steer. He was very helpful then. Give him a ring. I'm sure he can get you the part number quickly