FIxed rake. New pics, New Problems ans New Questions!

[duncanstives]

So I fixed the rake issue with a set of BJ's awesome front shackles. Looks good to me now:
http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs223.snc1/7031_177268535490_742425490_4184861_135832_n.jpght tp://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs223.snc1/7031_177268535490_742425490_4184861_135832_n.jpg

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs223.snc1/7031_177268880490_742425490_4184862_534853_n.jpg

I am going to call it good... A slight rake is ok with me especially since it will usually be loaded up a bit in the back when I go wheeling.

For the rear shackle angle I am going to take the "wait and see" approach to see if the rear springs settle at all thus fixing the problem.

My front driveshaft seems like it will be a go (using the driveshaft that came with the axle) and the back is going to need to be lengthened (already knew this).

Now however my front drag link angle went from being marginally unsafe to being completely and totally unsafe and horrible. Observe!
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs203.snc1/7031_177269290490_742425490_4184864_6493047_n.jpg

Yeah.... Um.. NO.
So I am thinking I should take my tire off, grind the knuckle flat with an angle gringer, fab up a cheesy steering arm out of metal from the metal store, drill and tap the knuckle (we have an exellent set of taps at work) and call it good. Any reason this may not work? Where would I get a super long drag link?

Also: There is not any way to put the cardigan joint off my spare front driveshaft onto the back one is there? I am really guessing not but it would solve my length problems AND allow a sharper angle if needed.

THanks!

[toyjeep]

I don't know that I would fab up anything "cheesy" for teh sterring if this rig will ever see pavement. Looks like you have an 8 lug dana 44 since a 60 would be set up to bolt on already (unless it is a newer one).

Do it right. Get the top MILLED flat, then tapped, and buy some high steer arms made from real metal. I'll sell you some for the dana 44 I never used if you want for a good price.

Make your own drag link. Buy some tube, some threaded inserts (or tap the tube), and some new TRE's.

[duncanstives]

Hehe... By cheesy I don't mean weak... I just mean simple. Some half inch flat stock modified to the proper shape using a bench grinder. However I would not say no to a set (actually only one since this would be crossover steer) of actual arms since the tappered hole for the thing that goes in there has me stumped (I am figuring I would take it to a machine shop and get them to make it). However I am about out of time for this build and spending much more would mean waiting longer which won't work. As for taking the knuckle off and having it milled it SEEMS like a better way to do it but I can't think of any reason why carefully grinding it and carefully checking to ensure that it is in fact flat and then drilling and tapping it myself would not work... I mean what might go wrong (in terms of things tha could be not noticed and fixed before everything went together)?

Just curious since it sure would save me a lot of time and aggravation.

Oh yeah: Any idea where I might get these threaded inserts? Thanks.

[j20brett]

I like the way you think, cheap, as this same concept has been the focus of my build also. But there is one place that you cant afford to skimp and thats the steering. Get a set of flat tops, send them to ballistic fabrication and for $40 they will mill, drill and tap them for you and ship back. A highsteer arm out of 1/2" wont cut it either. 3/4" minimum, and 1" would be best. You only really need one knuckle (passenger side) and one highsteer arm for cross over steering.

[duncanstives]

I like the way you think, cheap, as this same concept has been the focus of my build also. But there is one place that you cant afford to skimp and thats the steering. Get a set of flat tops, send them to ballistic fabrication and for $40 they will mill, drill and tap them for you and ship back. A highsteer arm out of 1/2" wont cut it either. 3/4" minimum, and 1" would be best. You only really need one knuckle (passenger side) and one highsteer arm for cross over steering.

Stupidly my PASSENGER side knuckle is already set up for high steer (milled, drilled, tapped and already has studs in it). No idea why this might be :banghead: .

BTW more drop on a DPA would also solve my problem... However they only seem to sell 4in drop pitman arms. I wonder if this is because they are not stong enough to have that much mechanical advantage applied to them?

Grr... I really wanted this to be done by nov.

[j20brett]

So since your passenger side IS already setup for a steering arm, get an arm and bolt it on! You can leave your tierod where it is and build a new draglink.

Im bored:
Arm
http://www.partsmike.com/store/store.php?crn=219&rn=1286&action=show_detail
Stud kit( i realalie you ont need the studs, but you would have a tough time finding the cone washers seperatly.)
http://www.partsmike.com/store/store.php?crn=219&rn=1444&action=show_detail

[duncanstives]

I am an idiot.


I meant drivers side not passegner side. I am spending so much time IN FRONT of the jeep instead of in it that left and right have taken on variable meanings :banghead:

[j20brett]

So...is the passengerside a flat top one?

[duncanstives]

So...is the passengerside a flat top one?

No.. Its the drivers side. Which is wierd... I can't figure why they would have made the drivers side one flattop but NOT the passenger side. This is a d44 from a 78 f250 BTW... I think they are both flat top... One has just been milled and tapped.

[j20brett]

No.. Its the drivers side. Which is wierd... I can't figure why they would have made the drivers side one flattop but NOT the passenger side. This is a d44 from a 78 f250 BTW... I think they are both flat top... One has just been milled and tapped.

Thats what i was getting at. If the passenger side is flat topped, then get it milled and all that junk and put an arm on it.

[Gearhead 1990]

Looks alot better! If I didn't know better I'd say those were 36s on it now :eek: cause I have 33s on my pile right now and they look TINY compared to yours

[shackwrrr]

http://www.sky-manufacturing.com/new/detaproduct.php?id=213

I like sky's arm. Its cheaper plus it has both holes drilled so you can go full high steer.

[duncanstives]

The drivers and passenger side are both flat topped (I think) but only the drivers side has been milled and all that. This means I will have to take the passenger side off again and get it to a machine shop. I guess I will do that tomorrow at the same time I take my driveshaft in.

So now I need to know the hole spacing and size on the arm so I can tell the machine shop what to drill and tap. If I buy the sky arm I am sure I can just call them up but toyjeep you said you had an arm you would sell? How much do you want for it and any chance you would know the hole spacing and all that on it?
Thanks.

Also: Anyone have sources or part number for the stuff I need to make my own drag link?

Thanks.

[j20brett]

Tad has the measurements you need for the studs.

Found them
http://members.cox.net/tadsal/44flattopspecs1.jpg

[duncanstives]

Tad has the measurements you need for the studs.

Found them
http://members.cox.net/tadsal/44flattopspecs1.jpg

Thanks... These meassurements will be the same for all high steer arms? Seems like different manufacturers would have slightly different spacings.

[toyjeep]

So now I need to know the hole spacing and size on the arm so I can tell the machine shop what to drill and tap. If I buy the sky arm I am sure I can just call them up but toyjeep you said you had an arm you would sell? How much do you want for it and any chance you would know the hole spacing and all that on it?
Thanks.

Also: Anyone have sources or part number for the stuff I need to make my own drag link?

Thanks.

I can take a picture of the arms I have when I get home from work tonight.

There are a BUNCH of vendors that sell tube adapters and tie rod ends (TRE's), here is one:

http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Tube-Adapters_c_7.html

Get the tube from someone local or mailed to ya as well.

[duncanstives]

Thanks. Primarily I just need to know if the hole spacing are the same as what j20brett posted. Also thanks for the link on the inserts... I can get tube at the local metal store. Any idea what size the stock TREs on the drag link are so I know what inserts to get?

[j20brett]

Thanks... These meassurements will be the same for all high steer arms? Seems like different manufacturers would have slightly different spacings.

ALL arms have the same spacing.

[Tad]

Thanks... These meassurements will be the same for all high steer arms? Seems like different manufacturers would have slightly different spacings.
The hole size, tap and spacing is based on the factory GM drivers side knuckle and mirrored over to the passenger side. Any shop that is setup to do the mill and tap will already know the numbers and spacing.
Years ago there were only a dozen or so places doing it, it's extreamly common these days.
Here's some other stuff and I think I have the dxf files someplace at home.
http://members.cox.net/tadsal/flattopinfopart1.jpg
http://members.cox.net/tadsal/histeerspecs1.JPG

[duncanstives]

ALL arms have the same spacing.
Makes things easier.

Thanks.

So toyjeep: How much you want for the arm/s? Send me a PM if you want or call me: 859-248-4696

[duncanstives]

Thanks for that Tad. So I do have to remove the ball joint/s for the machine work? I am assuming they can be gotten out without ruining them? They are brand new premium brand ones... Cost me $160 all together.

I really did not want to take this back apart :banghead:

[Gambler68]

You know a custom steering arm with ends is only $140 on Parts Mike site. That's a deal, I need to get one for my Gladiator here shortly.

Just do it right, especially the way and where you wheel.

[fulsizjeep]

So I do have to remove the ball joint/s for the machine work?Since they have been recently installed, a ball joint tool should be able to remove them pretty easy without damage.

[duncanstives]

You know a custom steering arm with ends is only $140 on Parts Mike site. That's a deal, I need to get one for my Gladiator here shortly.

Just do it right, especially the way and where you wheel.

Steering=draglink?

I can get a piece of tube pretty cheap and the inserts are not bad... Shoudl be easy to do myself. My welds with my new (to me) stick welder (since i no longer have regular access to the mig at work) seem to be turning out really really well... I assume its just because I am getting better at welding but they really look better than the most of what I had been doing with the mig.

[duncanstives]

There is a guy on ebay who will do the machine work, sell me an arm, the fasteners and return shipping for the whole bunch for $150. Good deal?

[j20brett]

There is a guy on ebay who will do the machine work, sell me an arm, the fasteners and return shipping for the whole bunch for $150. Good deal?

Very!

[Gambler68]

Steering=draglink?

I can get a piece of tube pretty cheap and the inserts are not bad... Shoudl be easy to do myself. My welds with my new (to me) stick welder (since i no longer have regular access to the mig at work) seem to be turning out really really well... I assume its just because I am getting better at welding but they really look better than the most of what I had been doing with the mig.

When you price the rod ends, the tres, the adjuster, and the tube, you're pushing 100 bux right there. Now you're trusting your and anyone else's life to the strength of your welds. Why? :confused:

sorry the 140 is for the draglink
http://www.partsmike.com/store/store.php?crn=204&rn=1370&action=show_detail

the whole kaboodle: Tie Rod Ends, Tie Rod and Drag link = $259.00

have you seen this thread?
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=58435

Not trollin ya or anything, I'm doing the same thing with a HD44 on my Glad, and while it's tempting to try some of this myself..I wouldnt trust my total noob welding skills beyond tacking stuff for someone who knows what they're doing to do right. Just sayin..doesn't matter how smart you are, skills are earned and learned.

[duncanstives]

I am already entrusting my life to my welds on the spring hangers, perches, etc. Why stop now?

[Gambler68]

I am already entrusting my life to my welds on the spring hangers, perches, etc. Why stop now?

Well with the perches, the ubolts will hold them on the tube. If the hanger blows, in the rear the worst will happen is your nose will suddenly point in the sky :D But none of those items see the side to side stress repeatedly that the steering items will see.

It's up to you what you want for an epitaph, brotha! ;)

If this was a trail rig, fug it. But it's your DD right?

[duncanstives]

Sorry... My last comment was ill considered... I made it from my phone while walking in from lunch. It is true though: I did weld all that other stuff... I have practiced, had my welds looked over by experts, knocked apart practice welds and checked for penetration, etc.
I am not saying I am an expert welder but at this point I trust my ability to reasonably be able to adjust the settings on the welder, identify obvious flaws, etc. I weld carefully and slowly, clean and check every thing I do and if it looks at all marginal I grind it off and start over. I am not devaluing purchasing an expertly prepared part but most people (myself included) can't afford to purchase everything new AND their is still a chance of a purchased part failing.

[billyrb]

on the DPA, there aren't larger drops available because if you go over a 6" lift, you NEED to go either crossover at a minimum, but preferably high-steer.

For the setup, I'd recommend going with 1-ton TRE's instead of Heims, as the heims can wear out quicker, plus the TRE's are available at most autoparts stores, where-as a heim usually isn't.

[duncanstives]

on the DPA, there aren't larger drops available because if you go over a 6" lift, you NEED to go either crossover at a minimum, but preferably high-steer.

For the setup, I'd recommend going with 1-ton TRE's instead of Heims, as the heims can wear out quicker, plus the TRE's are available at most autoparts stores, where-as a heim usually isn't.

Can I not use the stock TREs?

[duncanstives]

Oh yeah... Here is the ebay listing... I will probably send my knuckles out tomorrow.

Edit: I fail at actually ADDING the listing:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DANA-44-FLAT-TOP-KNUCKLE-service-HIGH-STEER-ARM-COMBO_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQ hashZitem3ef8d37de4QQitemZ270462582244QQptZAutomot iveQ5fServices

[stumpjumper3]

Holy smokes! That is a great deal! And what are the chances that he is right outside of town from me..... Roadtrip. Looks like a very good deal.

[Casey]

Can I not use the stock TREs?
I used my stock steering links on the D44. I had to have the tierod cut down and threaded.

I should have tried to swap in some n/t steering links...

[duncanstives]

Holy smokes! That is a great deal! And what are the chances that he is right outside of town from me..... Roadtrip. Looks like a very good deal.

We got the knuckes off my buddies j10 as well even though he wasn't really ready to get started on the front... We save liked $9 on shipping and we know he will be needing high steer.
I will post pics once I get them all back.

[duncanstives]

I used my stock steering links on the D44. I had to have the tierod cut down and threaded.

I should have tried to swap in some n/t steering links...

Keeping my tierod because I am just doing crossover steer but I will need a new (much longer) draglink. The TRE on one side is brand new so I will keep that. The other end (the one that goes to the knuckle) is goign to need to be a 1 ton chevy one so it will need to be replaced no matter what. Anyone have sizes on the stock TREs as well as the chevy 1 ton ones so I know what kind of threaded inserts to buy?

Thanks.

[Casey]

The threads on a stock TRE are 7/8-18RH. So are the 1-ton TREs I got from harshterrain.

[duncanstives]

Cool... Do you guys think that just having two TREs with opposite threads will provide enough adjustability for my draglink?

The stock one has an adjustment collar type thing but the TRE on the other end is non-adjustable so I am thinking maybe having two adjustable ones will be enough.

My understanding is they have to have a minimum of 1in thread engagement?

[jeepjerry]

You have turned that thing into a beast!!.....:thumbsup:

[duncanstives]

You have turned that thing into a beast!!.....:thumbsup:

Fitting because it is named "The Beast". When I got it there was nothing beast like about it until you compared it to the POs little volvo :rolleyes:. I kept the name since they had named it that and I figured it would not much like a name change after getting used to that one for so long... CLEARLY the only solution was to build the Jeep to match the name :D :fsj: