WHOO HOO! Got to 250F today!

[ColeTrickle]

What can I say I'm stumped. People I tell are stumped.
I'm loosing hope on this one guys. I have one last mad, frantic dash to get this thing ready for Ouray.
Here's what I got and have done, I'm sure most of ya'll know already but here it is again.

1) New 4 row brass/copper radiator, 2nd new.
2) New 180F thermostat, was new 195 thermostat.
3) New h.d. fan clutch, 2nd new.
4) New aux. pusher fan.
5) New temp. sending unit for factory gauge.
6) New aux. gauges.
7) New heater core.
8) New h20 hoses...everywhere. (even with the spiral wire inside the lower)
9) New radiator cap, nothing wrong with old one but hey I'm on a roll!
10) New h20 pump back in April '02.

Here's the problem. Runs 210F at 70 mph, but sweats like a hQQker @ a Baptist revival sitting still.
After about 10 min. at idle it'll jump on up there to 230+++++++++++++++++.

Went to the auto parts store to get a new water pump...and to see which way the impellers were rotating. Looks fine to me...same direction as the fan spins. So...last thing to do is see if the one on there is the same.

Sorry so long but I don't know anymore :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[joe]

Has the motor ever been bored out over stock?

[Don S]

ColeTrickle.. I have a very accurate mercury thermometer. It would be interesting to see how accurate your gauges are. Is your heater core system flowing and feeding back to the engine? Did Michael tell you about my auxiliary cooling set up? It works very well.

I didn’t get to look at your truck very well when you brought it over because it was dark. Can you check the tranny oil temp and how is it cooled? When you idle in gear your torque converter is creating heat. Goose the engine and make sure you have a lot of exhaust gasses come out. I will look at it if you want me to.. good luck.. ds..

[Michael]

Not sure but someone had a thread about a restriction in the heater core causing you to overheat. What do you think Mr.Trickle? What is one more part.

That is a good question. Has the engine ever been rebuilt. And if has been punched/bored you would need a high volume pump from say a 401 to keep you cool....just a thought. But as you know...I am running out of them.

[ColeTrickle]

Joe, no there has been no mods done to the engine, I'm all stock. It's the second engine, came out of a rolled Wag. Ran pretty good about 4 months ago before I blew the water pump.

Don S, I don't know what to think. The torque converter does seem logical though. All I know is that today I was doing alittle wheelin' and it boiled over on me. I was watching the gauges and the factory gauge was reading a needle thread past "H", the aux. gauge was about 245F for about 10 min. before it boiled over into the reservoir.
I was making a fleet of sailors flush.

One more thing, all I'm runnin' is water...no 50/50 mix as of now. The coolant mix won't do anything for me beside raise the coolant boilover level...right?

O.k., two more things. The aux. temp. sending unit was installed in the thermostat housing so I know I'm runnin' a few degrees warmer, since it's straight out of the block.

[ August 07, 2002, 09:16 PM: Message edited by: ColeTrickle ]

[ColeTrickle]

No Michael...no bore, bone stock except for a few missing emissions bull.
I also replaced the heater core with a new one.

Don S, what do you have planned for tomorrow?

[ColeTrickle]

No Michael...no bore, bone stock except for a few missing emissions bull.
I also replaced the heater core with a new one.

Don S, what do you have planned for tomorrow?

Oh yeah, I talked with the guy who originally put in the Wag engine. He was also stumped. He did mention the fan being on backwards. I checked it awhile back and there is only one way that it will mount with the fan clutch and all. he also mentioned about the impellers on the inside of the water pump being installed backwards...I have flow though. ?????????????????

[steven79]

i would check the flow on that pump at idle, sounds like it's not pumping at idle, could be a bad water pump. even thow it's new/remand.
I have gottin rebuild that don't pump good due too worn vanes.

[River Beast]

Too much water will run hot... too much coolant will run hot... straight water is not good...

Are any of your hosed collapsing? I know my lower hose has the springcoil inside to keep from collapsing.

Take your thermostat out and put in a pot on the stove. using a cooking thermometer... gage it and see when it opens. good way to check them stats... ;) It may not be open enuf to cool.

clogged water jackets in the block will case over heating... have you back-flushed the engine?

Just trying to think of anything/everything

[ColeTrickle]

I appreciate all the replies and suggestions.
I'll be back...going for a test drive....again.

[oddfire]

try a 160* stat...........phil

[porkchop]

What is your timing set at? If you are to far advanced it will run hot. Have you looked at that yet?

[Don S]

ColeTrickle.. I sent you PM maybe we can figure this problem out.
Two heads are better than one.. (at least on a V-8) :eek: :rolleyes: :D .. ;) ds..

[reddog]

Has the motor alway run hot?? It is possible that the block has casting flash in the water jacket restricting water flow in areas of the motor or/and like Todd says that junk has built up in the jacket. Get a good rad shop that will pull the thermostat housing and use the air/water attachment to blow backwards through the block.
Good luck!
Kerry

[ColeTrickle]

O.k., I'm back. Here's the scoop. I ran for 30 or so minutes on the interstate. Ran at 60-75 mph, never got past 203.333F. Did some climbs and got on it a few, never touched past 203.333F.
Pulled up in the drive let it sit for around 5 minutes, again nothing. O.k., I say what am I doing now that I wasn't doing earlier...A/C!

Turned on A/C ran for another ten or so minutes...watched the gauge climb to around 245F.
Keep in mind that its 80F outside at 23:00 central in TX. Earlier the temp. outside was in the high 90's.
I'll run same exact test tomorrow at a different temp. I'm thinking I'll be runnin' twenty degrees higher also.

Thanks guys for the responses.
I'll keep everyone posted.

I feel like an idiot about the A/C...Doh! :rolleyes:

[ August 07, 2002, 11:06 PM: Message edited by: ColeTrickle ]

[ColeTrickle]

Sorry I replied without responding to suggestions and advice.
steven79: that's the only thing I haven't replaced twice.
RB: I'll be using coolant sure enough. It's just been an added hassle with changing so many things. Check on spiral, thermostat and backflush.
Phil: I'm going to wait a bit before I get that low.
Porkchop: The timing didn't do much when I back off of it. Actually it ran like a pig...no offense!
Don S: I'll get a hold of you tomorrow.
RedDog: No the engine ran like a top before I threw the water pump. I had the engine backflushed a week or two ago.

Would a bad A/C clutch cause the motor to lag or would it just drag the belt?

[ August 07, 2002, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: ColeTrickle ]

[Lindel]

One more suggestion, have you looked to see how clean the a/c condenser is, and the radiator? I'm talking bugs, bits of trash, etc. between the grill, and condenser. If the fins are bent up on the condenser, or the radiator, that'll impede the cooling, too.

If your compressor is beginning to seize up, that'll really load down the engine, and can cause it too overheat. Can you turn the a/c compressor over by hand with the clutch engaged?

[ColeTrickle]

Lindel, before I went to get the new four row radiator, I pressure washed both sides of the A/C condensor.
Sure its bent up here and there from them big grasshoppers but nothing out of the ordinary. The A/C will even run really cool for the first ten minutes, after that it gets warm because of the engine heating up.

Edit: Went outside cranked on A/C with engine running. Turned off then checked the clutch. The clutch seems to have some rough spots in it. I mean, its free at some points then harder to turn at others. Does this sound like a compressor clutch going bad?

[ August 08, 2002, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: ColeTrickle ]

[JOECOOL]

You blew the water pump? Thats ALOT of pressure.
It boils over real quick?
Sounds like a head gasket is leaking into the cooling sytem.

[ColeTrickle]

Here's the latest.
Went over to Don S's and put the 'ole thermometer to it. I am runnin' 10 degrees higher on my gauge at 180F. At 212F, I'm runnin' at 216F on my gauge. All readings were taken with the A/C off. Turned the A/C on high to stress the engine and it boiled over.
So no more A/C at red lights or idle.
At freeway speeds, I can cruise @ 70 mph+ with the A/C on high at under 190F. A/C is nice and comfy too. I'm installing a tranny cooler tomorrow, we'll see if that helps any.

Again thanks Don S and all the others who have repeatly responded to my troubles and given me any advice.

[79cherokeechief]

just a suggestion but i use this stuff called Royal Purple Radiator Coolant Additive in my mudder and the temps seem to stay down its only like $10 for a bottle of the stuff and u just add it along with the coolant. Jegs carries it but i get from my local speed shop. here is jegs web page for it

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=3138&prmenbr=361

[Marvin Gates]

First thing I did was get a real temperture and oil pressure gauge, stock gauges are for entertainment only! and use a 160 thermostat, I use 160 in the summer and 195 in the winter solved a lot of problems. MG good Luck smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif

[Don S]

ColeTrickle.. It was great seeing you and the J again. Even if you hook the tranny cooler backwards it will still help the engine cooling alittle. Maybe some of the guys know (for sure ) which tranny cooling line is the out put. I'll do a search and get back to you if I find out.. CUL.. ;) .. ds..

[Rogue]

hmmm...fine @ highway speeds not at idle...what's the difference? airflow - for some reason your not flowing enough air @ idle, i know i know everything is new but still for some reason or another that is what's wrong; oh yea i wood definetly run 50/50 or 60/40 mix - coolant transfers heat more efficiently than water and contrary to belief a higher temp thermostat will actually allow your engine to run cooler - y? cause the coolant is allowed to stay in the radiator longer before it is cycled through the block - the faster you run it through the block ( lower t-stat temp ) the less heat it will dissipate through the radiator and the last two things on the list ignition timing and carb jetting ( lean ) will cause higher operating temps

[ August 08, 2002, 07:56 PM: Message edited by: RogueStar ]

[trssho]

What happens if you kick up the RPM's to say 1100 with the AC on. Does it still over heat? Could be the compressor is driving the RPM's too low for the fan and water pump to work effeciently. Adjust the AC kicker selenoid if that helps any.

[Cliff]

Here are 2 longshots.

1) Blown head gasket. Combustion gases can leak into the water jackets without any other symptoms, except overheating. Rare, but possible. It can still run good, no coolant in the oil, etc. NAPA makes a test kit that works. $30

2) If your AC or power steering pump is bad, it could be intermittently slowing the speed of your water pump. Again, they may be working, but have bad clutch or bearings.

[Stolen76]

Maybe your pusher fan is pulling. You don't have enough air flow from what you're saying. A/C running warm after 10 minutes is not from a hot engine, it's from the lack of air moving across the condensor. Missing fan shroud, bad fan, puller fan or something like that.

FYI...The York compressor is a 17 hp draw at full load plus the 5 hp draw of the fan.

[RottenDog]

As i am crawling underneath my truck this afternoon, I saw my transmission cooler lines were slightly crimped between the bottom of the radiator and the cross member.

I realized that isn't good for the transmission, but does it impact the engine tempature, too?

Don S mentioned in this post that the tranny cooler assists with the engine cooling.

I thought I had completely beat my running hot problem, but I seem to still to be running warmer than I would like.

The question: Would a hot tranny affect the running tempature of the engine?

[ColeTrickle]

Here's the latest. I installed the tranny cooler today and nothing has changed. I figured the temp. would back off at idle...it didn't. Only thing that it could be would be the A/C. I have no idea how.
I installed the tranny cooler as a pre-cooler to the radiator.
Stolen 76: The 14" pusher fan is doing a good job.

I don't understand why the A/C gets warm after the temp gets past 212F. Any ideas?

Who knows? They don't put A/C's in vehicles to run ONLY down the highway.
??????????????????????????

[RdHawg]

One thing that helped me considerably was a fan clutch eliminator - can be had for $20 @ most speed shops. Loose a little H.P. gain a lot of airflow (went though a couple of HD fan clutches to learn this lesson.)

[Don S]

Originally posted by RottenDog:
The question: Would a hot tranny affect the running tempature of the engine?RottenDog.. Yes your hot tranny oil is going through a coil in the radiator adding heat to your engine coolant. The pinched lines will slow the flow.. :( .. An auxiliary transmission pre-cooler mounted somewhere behind the radiator, like under the cab would be a great benefit to the cooling system. On the GM TH-400 transmission the lower cooling line is the output.. cul. ;) . ds..