D70 front on wagoneer?

[MIDLERTH]

I am trying to identify my front axle on my 81 wagoneer. I got a axle spotters guide from a jeep magazine and compared the photos to my jeep axles.The rear is without a doubt a amc20 but the front looks identical to the d70. Everything i have read says nothing about 81 wagon coming stock with a d70, the magazine says it more likely would come with a d25,d35, or d44 but it does not look like any of these. It looks close to a d60 but not quite and looks exactly like the d70 in the photo. Could this photo be wrong or am i lucky to have a wag that maybe had a d70 option.

[Jeep Jeep]

Unless it has been swapped, it will be a d44.

[Crazy_Jeepman]

Well the D44 D60 and D70 all look simillar. However You would not have a D70 in the front of your Wag. Here is another chart for ID.

Axle ID (http://www.coloradok5.com/axleguide.shtml)

[MIDLERTH]

It is definately not a d44 according to the spotters guide. It has only ten bolts and a plug on the front. The d44 has no plug on the front and has 12 bolts in the picture. Maybe the picture is wrong? Does anyone know if this spotters guide sounds correct. Aslo my neighbor has a d44 and he helped look at mine and says it is not like his. It wasnt swapped by po I know because the guy never did a **** thing to improve this rig. When I put the lift on it looked like no one had ever removed anything.

[FYR WOOD]

and weren't front D70s extraordinarily rare? If you are using Four Wheeler's Axle ID guide then that might trick you into thinking its not a D44 because the picture they have of a D44 is dirtier than all get-out.

Scott

[Crazy_Jeepman]

The D44 has 10 bolts as most all Dana axles do.

[MIDLERTH]

well this in this guide it look most similar to both d44 and d70 and neither have 12 bolts like the d44 in the picture that was in the spotters guide i used. but that still doesnt explain why my neighbors d44 doesnt look the same.And how come on this guide they all have a plug on the ftont the guide i used had actual phots and they did not all have plugs on the front.

[FYR WOOD]

the guide you are using shows an aftermarket diff cover more than likely.

Scott

[Bob Barry]

The D44 covers have plugs, either screw-in (most front units and some rear units) or a push-in rubber plug (some rear units).

[MIDLERTH]

I will take a picture this weekend and post it probably monday and add to this confusion. Maybe then i will find out which it is. Also i was told the d44 was closed knuckle is that only certain years because mine is open knucle.

[Crazy_Jeepman]

Throw the Guide away, and use the one in the link I provided above. :rolleyes:

[joe]

Tha last closed knuckle Dana axle was in 1973. 74 and up are all open knuckles.

[FSJeeper]

For the record, closed knuckle Dana 70's only came on 60's, early 70's IH's and Dodges. Open Knuckle Dana 70's only came on Ford F450's and up in certain years and also in some custom motor home and forklift applications.

The closed knuckle Dana 70's are rare, but the open knuckle Dana 70's with discs are extremely rare and I have only seen one in my life.

The 44, 60, 70 all look alike except for their size which is hard to judge if you have not seen them all in person.

Look in the casting web on the drivers side of the bottom web where the diff hooks to the tubes. I bet you it says 44.

[MIDLERTH]

The only reason i dont like the link you use is it is drawings and the guide i used is actual photos. All of the axles are cery clean in it and it shows that some dana axles do have twelve bolts. your drawings show no twelve bolt setups even a aftermarket cover wont change the number of bolts.

[MIDLERTH]

There is no number on the web. Thats where i went for answers first. However ther is a code riveted to it that might provide some answsers. My neighbor has a 47 willys cj and he swears that it is bulkier looking than his d44.

[BIGYELLOW78J10]

You have a Dana 44 front axle.

Where is your axle swap guide from? If it is 4 wheel, it is pretty crappy, the best pics are of the axles only the guy who took the pics has every seen. "this is the 1936 d27-ax, a so and so derivative of..."

Good thought that axle spotters series, poor execution.

The state of journalism today is poor, and few of these poor journalists even try to get into offroading pubs, but when they do, I guess you get this stuff. I would rather have seen all the stuff they had, or to save space, make the freaky stuff tabular and graphical and emphasize the common stuff, like all the applications of the d44.

[MIDLERTH]

Is ther a link i can compare the numbers riveted to it with? That would be the easiest way to identify it instead of all this mixed information from the guides.

[MIDLERTH]

Well the guide did explain all applications of the different axles. According to it i should have a d35 or d25 but it looks nothing like either so i am assuming the guide is wrong or the pictures got mixed up.

[BIGYELLOW78J10]

I don't think he has a d44 front. Could be in the rear, but I don't believe it is in the front.

[talntar]

in 81 wouldent it be a vacume disconnect d44.

quote
My neighbor has a 47 willys cj and he swears that it is bulkier looking than his d44.

and would a 47 willys have had a 44 in it?

[ May 02, 2003, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: talntar ]

[dnixon]

The reason why you D44 doesn't look like a D44 is because you probably have the vaccum housing. The internals are the same as far as gears go an such but the housing is dfferent due to it needing to be able to move the shift fork.. i can' remember what year or what kind of jeep you have but that is my guess.. if you look at the left side of the cover it will look like the D44 but the right side will be all stretched out to make room for that extra junk...

[MIDLERTH]

He put his d44 in himself.

[BIGYELLOW78J10]

You should not have anything but a d44 up front in a late model wag. I was gritting my teeth reading that article. I guess lot of it goes back to the duplicate naming of the vehicles, but no 80's fullsize jeep had anything other than a d44 up front. There were lots of variations, but certainly no d 35s or d25s.

[MIDLERTH]

Sounds like you could be right.The left side looks like the d44 but the right side looks stretched that is maybe why it looks like the d70. It is an 81 wag , is there any way to know other than looks if it is a vacuum disconnect.

[talntar]

Originally posted by MIDLERTH:
Sounds like you could be right.The left side looks like the d44 but the right side looks stretched that is maybe why it looks like the d70. It is an 81 wag , is there any way to know other than looks if it is a vacuum disconnect.ther would/should be vacume hoses,2 i think,going to the diff.

[Cecil14]

Looking from the front of the vehicle at the lower right hand corner of the the diff there will be a casting number. Should say 44.

Anthony

[joe]

Originally posted by MIDLERTH:
My neighbor has a 47 willys cj and he swears that it is bulkier looking than his d44.No big surprise there...a 47 CJ will have a D25 or D27 in it.
Your stock axle is a D44. Just pull up next to any other 74+ FSJ and compare yours to it. The pumpkins may be on opposite sides depending on year but the housing will be the same size etc. If by some odd chance a D70 front was swapped in to your rig it would be from a Ford/Dodge pickup truck etc and would be a lot wider than the track width of your stock M20 rear...it would be obviously wider and you'd have serious clearence issues with the wheels/fenders/frame when turning.

[MIDLERTH]

Sorry for all the confusion just tryin to sort out some details so i can make some upgrades.Thanks for the help and for the record i think the 4-wheel axle spotters guide sucks!

[dnixon]

Is this what yours looks like.. if so its a D44 vaccum housing...

http://www.dekonia.com/Images/ifsja/vacD44_1.jpg
http://www.dekonia.com/Images/ifsja/vacD44_2.jpg

[MIDLERTH]

Actually no it doesnt look like that. now im really gettin confused.The right side is different. sorry guys but i think my network is gettin shut down for an hour or two so soon i wont be able to reply.

[Crazy_Jeepman]

Pics from my personal collection of Dana axles!! ;) UMMMMMMM Note all have 10 bolts and plugs! ;) 81 would not have Vac Disco front axle either.

http://images.andale.com/f2/116/106/4651773/1051894494864_D44FRNT.JPG
http://images.andale.com/f2/116/106/4651773/1051894494376_D44rear.JPG
http://images.andale.com/f2/116/106/4651773/1051894493812_D60Frnt.JPG
http://images.andale.com/f2/116/106/4651773/1051894492961_D60rear.JPG

[ May 02, 2003, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Crazy_Jeepman ]

[MIDLERTH]

Out of the 2 it looks closer to the d44. So your probably right. besides that evryone on here has already said that it couldnt have came with any other and you guys are pretty much the fsj bible.

[MIDLERTH]

one last post before i am cut off , it looks closest to the d60 rear pic. sorry got to go.

[Jeep Jeep]

MIDLERTH sent you a PM.

[89grand]

OK here's the deal. It's a Dana 44.

[Joe Guilbeau]

Originally posted by MIDLERTH:
It is definately not a d44 according to the spotters guide. It has only ten bolts and a plug on the front. The d44 has no plug on the front and has 12 bolts in the picture. Maybe the picture is wrong? Does anyone know if this spotters guide sounds correct. Aslo my neighbor has a d44 and he helped look at mine and says it is not like his. It wasnt swapped by po I know because the guy never did a **** thing to improve this rig. When I put the lift on it looked like no one had ever removed anything.My Dana 44 has Ten bolts and a plug on the front, you you almost certainly have a Dana 44.

[FSJeeper]

Ok, just to settle your mind, here are pics of a front Dana 70 in FSJ M715. For reference those are 40" tires.

http://froadin.com/Willie/willie_front_axle.jpg
http://froadin.com/Willie/willie_hub.jpg

The axle tubes are 4" thick. Check out the size of the casting web on the differential. A Dana 44 would look dinky next to this and especially on 40" tires.

[MIDLERTH]

Well i got some pics but dont know how to post them . did a search and all i can find is many questions and scrambled answers.

[BIGYELLOW78J10]

Upload them at www.fullsizejeeps.com (http://www.fullsizejeeps.com)

Name them with no spaces.

Post using the img tag

www.fullsizejeeps.com/correct directory/pic name as uploaded

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/files/1963-1987-Pickups/j10ext.jpg

That links to here:

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/files/1963-1987-Pickups/j10ext.jpg

Good luck. Resizing pictures is nice, smaller is better memory wise.

Later

[timmirvin]

Originally posted by FSJeeper:
Ok, just to settle your mind, here are pics of a front Dana 70 in FSJ M715. For reference those are 40" tires.

http://froadin.com/Willie/willie_front_axle.jpg
http://froadin.com/Willie/willie_hub.jpg

The axle tubes are 4" thick. Check out the size of the casting web on the differential. A Dana 44 would look dinky next to this and especially on 40" tires.Now...that is a manly rig!!!!!

And what is the big ball dooohicky on the inside of the wheel????

[FSJeeper]

That is a closed knuckle.

This is the nicest M715 I know of. It belongs to a good friend of mine. Has an extreme built Cummins 6BT and now 18 wheeler tranny. Here are some more pics:

http://froadin.com/Willie/

[MIDLERTH]

ok, i uploaded my pictures on the site now how do i post them.

[MIDLERTH]

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/dustanjeep/differentials
I dont know if thats right but im tryin.

[Brown Bear]

not even close to working

[89grand]

Yeah Butts is right, it's not working.

[MIDLERTH]

hold on im still tryin

[netbear]

You must have the rare front Dana 70 axle
which is a lot stronger than the more common
Dana 44 front axle. Most of the 81 Wags that
had front Dana 70 front axles also came with Rear
Dana 80 axles and detroit lockers from the
factory. They are very rare. The best way to
identify these is that they all had 8 lug
rims. If your rims are 8 lug then you must
have the Dana70/Dana80 option. If your rims
are held on with 5 or 6 bolts, then your front
axle must be a Dana 44 and the rear axle an AMC20.
Hope this helps.

[idoc]

ROTFLMAO :D :D :D tongue.gif

[FSJeeper]

Originally posted by netbear:
You must have the rare front Dana 70 axle
which is a lot stronger than the more common
Dana 44 front axle. Most of the 81 Wags that
had front Dana 70 front axles also came with Rear
Dana 80 axles and detroit lockers from the
factory. They are very rare. The best way to
identify these is that they all had 8 lug
rims. If your rims are 8 lug then you must
have the Dana70/Dana80 option. If your rims
are held on with 5 or 6 bolts, then your front
axle must be a Dana 44 and the rear axle an AMC20.
Hope this helps.OMG no, not the rarest of rare 81 70/80 axle combo! I have never seen one of these in person but I would die to. I heard that while the 8 lug bolt pattern is very rare, that there is an even more rare HD 6 lug bolt pattern not unlike the military M715.

So if his is an 81 and has 6 lugs, you think it could be the 6 lug Dana 70/80 setup? OMG I want pics!

[netbear]

I forgot about the '81 option #M715 which
would have the large 6 lug bolt pattern...
Maybe this is one of the ultra rare M715 Wags...
If it is it would be great to post some pics
of it. Rare indeed.

[MIDLERTH]

HA HA ! FOLED YOU ALL i HAVE BOTH DANA 80 AXLES AND NO LUGS AT ALL I KEEP MY WHEELS ON WITH KOTTER PINS.

[netbear]

Kotter pins... Hmmm,.. Never thought of trying
Kotter pins before. Post some pics for us!

[MIDLERTH]

OK, finally think i got them uploaded.
www.fullsizejeeps.com/p1010059 (http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/p1010059)
www.fullsizejeeps.com/p1010060 (http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/p1010060)

[MIDLERTH]

ok i give up but there is three pics on there. the big photo is my axle . The one with no plug and 12 bolts is what 4-wheel mag claims is a d44, but im sure its a gm-12bolt, the other is the d70.I am sure you guys are right but i had to try to post these pics to explain how i got confused to begin with.

[FSJeeper]

Originally posted by netbear:
I forgot about the '81 option #M715 which
would have the large 6 lug bolt pattern...
Maybe this is one of the ultra rare M715 Wags...
If it is it would be great to post some pics
of it. Rare indeed.Netbear, you are on a roll. You crack me up!

[netbear]

The pic clearly indicates your front axle is
a Dana 70. Neat. First one I've seen under
the front of an '81 Wag.

[Bigums]

Here's the pic...

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/files/Misc-Pictures/midlerthsaxle.jpg

[netbear]

Another Dana 70? Where are guys finding these
things?... Rare as hen's teeth here in Virginia.
Just look at how big that thing is next to the
tire. Must leave a trail of sparks driving
down the road at night. Way cool.

[FSJeeper]

ROTFLMAO

[Crazy_Jeepman]

Could that be a Shaved D70 with reduced diameter axle tubes, lighter U-Bolts, for clearance issues? Man, what a good job it is as small as a D44!!! I WANT ONE!!!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: tongue.gif