1988 and 1965 Jeeps (looking for advice here, is it worth it?)

[Eric Flewelling]

Will ANYTHING transferfrom a 1988 GW into a 1965 Wagoneer?

[jeepjseries]

sure with enough mods everything would just takes a little work thats all.:)

[Tornado230]

The windshield and the hood. Most everything else is quite different, such as door and tailgate latches. Suspension is different, and so is the electrical system.

[Eric Flewelling]

So would any of the sheet metal from say the doors, rockers, or fenders be useable for rust repair?

[Eric Flewelling]

Okay, well, I've found a '65 Wagoneer (or so they claim) with a 230 tornado engine, 3 speed (is that column shift?), single speed transfer case, complete rhino grille, and it doesnt appear to have too much rust. He says it needs floor board work and that the shift linkage isnt working right (help me out there). It's a 4 door. Do you guys think it's worth the $300? Its a 'it was running when it was parked' type car... What do you think?

[mattmopar440]

the grill if in good shape worth half that :eek:

[ChadC]

3 on the tree-manual....mine barely works....

[Eric Flewelling]

Okay, I found out more today. It was running 2 years ago (when it was parked). It also has 58,000 miles. I'm leaning towards it kinda, but I'm not sure about the work to be done. I know I can do the floor work, that would be relatively easy, but what about the shift linkage? Does anyone know about that?

[Snowboard3r411]

i would pass enless you got the time and money you can find running ones all day

[Eric Flewelling]

You guys may be able to find them running that often, but I've only seen 5 or so up here that are in reasonable condition and most come with exorbitant price tags.

[Snowboard3r411]

i would trade you east coast for west coast i find cheap "la""la""la" jeep 1500 miles away from here on your side of the country lol

[BamaDrew]

58,000 miles? So, has the current owner had it long enough to know that this is a fact? I honestly haven't looked around much for the 60s Wagoneers so can't comment in too much depth on their availability or unavailability. I would say determine if there is $300 worth of parts there first in case you needed an out later on down the road and then decide if you want to make the investment. Not running in two years could mean nothing or it could mean that there is much that has gone wrong during that time to cause you grief. It depends on the environment it has sat in for two years, what it has been subject to, etc. The 86 that I just rescued from a kudzu patch sat for about that length of time, but was moved periodically. Lots of wiring and small stuff to iron out as it is. So far though it's looking pretty solid through and through. Perhaps you might have similar luck.

Well good luck with it and provide updates as you can.

[TheJeeper]

The only single speed T-case used on Waggys and Trucks was the Dana 23. It's a troublesome, rare, case that's hard to aquire parts for. But, IIRC, it was only used behind automatics. So, it more than likely has a Dana 20 like all the others, (including mine) that I've seen.

As far as the shift linkage, save yourself some time, trouble, and mis-shifts, by buy a top-cover and shifter assembly for a CJ T-90, and convert it to floor shift. It's nothing to worry about, and you can have all the parts nessecary to convert it, for less than $100.

The truck is well worth the money if the engine isn't frozen. I, personally, would probably get it either way.

[tgreese]

... But, IIRC, it was only used behind automatics.
...
Yes, used behind the Borg-Warner automatic. If it's a '65 Wagoneer with 230 and an automatic, that's what it will be.

I don't think the Dana 23 is delicate, it's just an oddball.

If this is what it is, it's an unusual drivetrain and strictly collector material IMO. Very dated. Your local parts store will have almost nothing for this car - unusual engine, antique transmission, and oddball transfer case. I would not want to set off cross-country in this car unless I were on a very loose schedule.

However, I think it would be really cool to have, if it's in good shape.

[Eric Flewelling]

I'm gonna contact the guy and find out if it is an auto. I also have a hunch that if I do go see it (it's a few dozen miles away) the interior will tell if the 58,000 miles is accurate, after all there's someone in the drivers seat every time it moves ;)

[TheJeeper]

Tgreese: I never said it was delicate, just that I've heard it's a troublesome 'case. Especially considering that if something goes wrong with it, you'll have to throw it on the scrap-heap.

And, if it's the T-90, I don't see how, once you fix it up, that it's any less dependable than a mid-'70's waggy with a 258 and a three speed.

As far as parts availability, if it ends up being the 3-speed manual, parts are very common for it and the Dana 20. So, nothing to worry about there. As far as other parts, I can get a suprising amount of parts for my '65 through Napa. The rear axle, you can still get seals for from them. You can get a lot of front axle parts from vintagejeepparts.com . And what you can't get at the local parts store, you can order online through various places like the aforementioned site. Two differant companies even offer complete rebuild kits for the 230.

Eric: If it's not junkyard material, go for it.

[Eric Flewelling]

I got the email today, it's a 3 spd. manual. I suppose that is good as far as reliability and part availability. But that makes it significantly less rare right? Okay, so what he said about there being a problem with the shift linkage, other than getting the floor shifter out of a CJ what would need to be done to fix this problem?

Also, I'm curious now, why would he think it is a single speed transfer case if it really isn't?

[tgreese]

I got the email today, it's a 3 spd. manual. I suppose that is good as far as reliability and part availability. But that makes it significantly less rare right? Okay, so what he said about there being a problem with the shift linkage, other than getting the floor shifter out of a CJ what would need to be done to fix this problem?

Also, I'm curious now, why would he think it is a single speed transfer case if it really isn't?
I think the proper term might be "more common" rather than "less rare" - none of these cars are really rare compared to, say Duesenbergs and Cords, or some of the low-numbers muscle cars.

Should be a Dana 20 then; 2 speed case. Don't know why he would think it's single-speed.

The column shift linkage wears out and binds. It might be ok as-is. Even in prime condition, it has a clunky feel. If you want to put some effort into reworking the rod ends and bushing the levers, then you can repair it. I don't think there is any source for repair parts ... you would have to make parts or repair what you have.

[5quarter]

if your gonna dump the old tornado engine i need the two barrel manifold and carb along with the civvy distributor for my M715..... jeez we sound like a bunch of vultures

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/5760/vulturespa468x447119dc2.jpg

[Eric Flewelling]

Thanks for the info guys! I'll let you know if it turns out! A lot would depend on things like it it will turn over. Any tips on things to look at/for? Obviously the gas is a little old, would it be best to feed it through the carb to try to start it?

[tgreese]

How much do you know about the 230? A '65 will have Ross steering too. Do a little research so you know what you are getting into.

Unless I wanted to own and maintain this truck as a 'collectible', I would look for at least a late '60s model, and preferably newer. The 230 was an innovative design, but even in its time, everybody hated it. Plus it's very hard to find parts for now, and parts are expensive.

By the late '60s, Jeep used conventional engines from other manufacturers, better transmissions, and Saginaw steering. These vehicles are considerably less dated than the early '60s FSJs.

[TheJeeper]

Eric: The T-case shift linkage may be very worn, so it may not shift into 4-wheel low. Here's the shift pattern:

2High
4High
Neutral
4Low

As you can see, it would be very easy for it to be worn, and the guy only be able to put it into 4High. My linkage is very worn, it will only shift from 4Low to Neutral. Just a therory.

As far as things to look for, just check for dried engine oil, that may give you and idea if it leaked much when it was last driven. Look for dreid gear oil on the gear boxes and differentials. Check steering play. This is a big deal considering the relative rarity of Ross steering parts. Check if the clutch and brake pedals go to the floor, or if they still work. If either pedal doesn't, check the hydrolic fluid levels in each resovior. Also see if you can shift the transmission and T-case. Take the truck out of gear, if possible, and check for driveshaft play.

Also, see if it will turn over. If it will, un-hook the gas line from the carburator, remove the breather, and dump some fresh gas straight into the carb. Then open the choke and see if it'll fire. That will give you a good idea of what sort of shape the engine's in. Even if it just sputters a little and dies, you will know that it could be made to run.

5Quarter: The two barrel, Holley 2100 carb only came on trucks and Wagons equipped with automatics. Although, there were a few that were ordered with it.

[Eric Flewelling]

Thanks guys, I do realize the 'dated-ness' f the jeep. I may not know exactly how hard parts are to get for it, but my goal for it would be a very slow restoration... I can't really picture it being a daily driver or anything. We dont really see much of ANY rigs from the 60's at all, most everything before 1975 is well... well on its way to rusting into oblivion...

[Eric Flewelling]

Well, somebody else got it first... Guess I'll have to go check out the m715 or m725 now!

[TheJeeper]

In case you didn't know, both of those trucks have the 230 in them. How much are they? If they have a online ad link, post it up and we'll give you our opinion.

[Eric Flewelling]

I was aware of that, but it's not the same as the civilian version right? No online ads, they're for sale on the side of the road types. I thnk the m725 is 4,000 which is out of reach for me, but it still looks cool, and I'll be taking a picture of it just in case I never see one again. The m715 has no interior and a 5 ft gash down the bed floor that is rusting. That probably doesnt help much, huh?

[TheJeeper]

The only differances that I'm aware of, are the distributor being a differant style, the Holley 1920 one barrel carb having a differant size accelerator pump, and the engine mounts being near the middle of the engine (same mount as an AMC I-6) rather than the civvy's front mount. The only reason for the location differance is to accomidate the saginaw steering gearbox in place of the old style Ross. All M-series 230's were of the low (7.5:1) compression varity, which was optional on civvy trucks and waggys. But most civillion sported the standard 8.5:1 compression heads.