Runs like poo, smells like poo, must be poo

[Brown Bear]

I've been fighting this problem for awhile now, and it's about buggered me out. The minnow's been idling sorta rough lately, but the real problems come when you give it any gas. Hitting the throttle makes the engine....well, it's kinda hard to describe. It's sorta like a hesitation, or chugging....yeah, chugging, that's it. When you give it gas it chugs like a train. When you put it in gear and give it gas, ir REALLY chugs, chugs like all get out. Driving it anything more than 10ft is out of the question. Other than that, it's really tough to describe.

Here are the things that i've checked so far.

Rebuilt Carb
plug wires
plugs
compression <numbers can be seen here> (http://home.insightbb.com/~nathanielbutts/compression_test_3.16.03.txt)
timing
checked for jumped timing
carb base for vac. leaks
checked all hoses for vac. leaks, can't find any
getting plenty of fuel
adjusted idle mix

I really don't know what else to check, or if one of these is bad, and i just can't find it. Any help you guys can offer would be great.

[EJ10]

he called his s**t poo! smile.gif

[FSJ Thing]

That's deffinately an ingnition problem. I've had it happen to me a couple times. One time was rom rich mixture fouling the plugs, one time it was an ingnition coil going out, and one time it was a bad alternator with a bad battery that always had enough juice to start the truck, but never enough to get a block away. I'm sure it's an ingition problem, but I'm not sure what it could be.

[Brown Bear]

oh yeah, had the ignition module tested as well, came out fine.

[wagontrain]

Sounds like a choke problem to me. Any black smoke while all this chugging is going on?

Or possibly a very bad vaccuum leak; did you check for leaks at the EGR valve and around the intake gaskets?

[bmoose]

Just a wild thought but is the distributor cap cracked or been replaced? You may be getting cross fire in the cap?
I know you checked the timing but could it be 180 degrees off or timed to fire on 5 instead of 1?
Also check your plug wire order. May have 1 or 2 off. Its easy to do.
My $.02 worth.

[wagontrain]

Bmoose makes a valid point. I see from your sig that you have done the TFI; if you're still using the stock cap, cross-firing is a distinct possibility.

Couple more questions: Is there a point where the engine smooths out, or does it "chug" through the entire RPM range?
Also, will it run indefinitely at idle, or does it want to die if you don't open the throttle once in a while?

[ March 25, 2003, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: wagontrain ]

[Brown Bear]

well, the dist. cap is new, and it's the one that is recommended in the tfi write up, the ford 460 one, iirc. It will idle indefinitely...atleast until it runs out of gas ;) And if you get it up enough into the rpms, the chugging sorta goes away, but it's still rough, and the whole engine is shaking. I'm beginning to think that this is too far gone...I might be parting it out in the near future.

[steven79]

I have done the tfi on mine and am still running stock cap with no problems at at all, i would check the pluig wires and make sure they are in order and recheck the carb, they don't allways take a rebuild could have crack inside the carb too.if lots of black smoke than it is the carb.

[wrinkledmeat]

Check the carb and vac hoses thruout. If it's like mine it could be the power valve. Also DonS gave sage advice on the fuel delivery system if that doesn't cure it. I will bet it's the carb needing a rebuild just based on my experience with mine and the slew of posts I searched on the topic.

[Lindel]

Nathan!!!! Step away from the carb!! Get a Holley 2300 (4412s to be exact), and drop it on the engine. It'll cost about $235 after tax, will bolt on, using the stock type gaskets and is very easy to adapt, using the throttle parts and tranny kickdown parts from the rotten 2150! This will cure most of the minnow's ills.

I suspect that you've got a twofold problem, one being a blown power valve, or the vacuum hose to the power valve has a major leak, and the altitude compensator has bit the big one. In other words, your carb no longer knows anything about fuel mixture now.

[talntar]

clogged cat?

[jc turtle]

HOW ABOUT THE SOCK ON THE SENDER IN THE TANK? MAYBE WON'T ALLOW ENOUGH FUEL FLOW? JUST A THOUGHT. JOHN

[Brown Bear]

thanks for all the hints and possibilities guys. I guess I should have cleared something up...I broke the 2150 that came on this sucker along time ago <don't ask>, so I got a 2100 from Pete and put it on. It ran good for awhile, but when I finally got gas going to the carb, via the electric fuel pump i put on, it all of a sudden started running like this...now that I think about it, the bad running started before I finally got all the pump installed and gas flowing freely again. I rebuilt the 2100 this past weekend, and the problem still persisted. One thing I thought was odd on this 2100 was the power valve configuration. On the 2150, it had the powervalve going to a vacuum source, but on this 2100, the powervalve housing is solid, with no vacuum source available. Could this be part of the problem? Also, when I pulled the housing off for the rebuild, it was full of gas. I'm not sure if this should have been or not, but I'm assuming no.

[wrinkledmeat]

the 2100 you have has internal vacuum for the power valve...the info I referred to earlier that Don S gave was regarding the fuel sock...that would be where I'd go from here...sounds like it's fuel starved

[tuckers89GW]

Nate, you need to realize that any thing named "minnow" is doomed. 3 hours is all your going to get out of it.

[Brown Bear]

Originally posted by tuckers89GW:
Nate, you need to realize that any thing named "minnow" is doomed. 3 hours is all your going to get out of it.yep, and that's about what i got :D

[Retro93]

Originally posted by Brown Bear:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by tuckers89GW:
Nate, you need to realize that any thing named "minnow" is doomed. 3 hours is all your going to get out of it.yep, and that's about what i got :D </font>[/QUOTE]Maybe we need to put the S.S. Minnow on a big hook and dangle it underwater for a few days. :eek: That will either cure it or kill it. :D

[Brown Bear]

Some say the world will end in fire;
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
robert frost

I'm leaning towards this guy :D

[Franklinstein]

Originally posted by Brown Bear:
Some say the world will end in fire;
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
robert frost

I'm leaning towards this guy :D Also spoken by Dr. tolian soran in Star Trek generations....hehehehe GILLIGAN!

[Brown Bear]

http://home.insightbb.com/~nathanielbutts/images/84-85_8cylvac.JPG

think that would work?

[Brown Bear]

ok guys, little update:

was playing around with the jeep tonight..took the hood off &lt;don't ask&gt;, ripped all the carpet out of the back &lt;don't ask&gt;, and started piddling around with vacuum hoses and wires and such. Hooked all my vacuum lines up per the diagram in the post right above this. Seemed to help a little. Also noticed that vac was leaking out of the missing choke stove...hmmm, didn't know they did that, so i put some tape over it for now &lt;all i got :( &gt; seemed to help a little. Also opened the choke to about full open, seemed to help a bit as well.

Later I had the timing light on her, retarding a little bit since she's so hard to warm start. Noticed my light was doing some crazy things. I swear I checked all the plugs first thing, all were good. So I put the light on all the plug wires, and all came out good, except the #1 wire, which had the light dancing around like crazy. So I hop down to AZ, pick up a $1.37 champion, and boom, she's running much better. My vac guage went from an extremely erratic 12, to a more solid, but still shaky 19. Guess there's still a leak somewhere. Carb cleaner isn't finding it, so I guess I'll have to try other means.

Thanks.

[Jeepzilla]

Does yours have vac lines under the dash that run the heater/defroster contol dampers? Might check there...

[tuckers89GW]

so, nate what about the hood and carpet? Sounds like your starting to get it figured out.

[Brown Bear]

well, took the hood off so i could get some more clearance in there for my big fat butt, and also so i could do some wiring work. I hate doing wiring work on that stupid engine with the hood on, so I just took it off....plus, i could see the back of my carb better, and could do more on the vac lines. The carpet....well, that was just making me mad, and just happened to be on my mind when the engine stuff was starting to get to me and when the body ground welded itself to the fender........call me impulsive, i don't mind smile.gif

[Brown Bear]

Ok, here is a short description of my day today:

</font> go out and look at the jeep....sure ain't getting any prettier
</font> go back inside and get cigarettes....man i need to quit
</font> get jeep fired up...getting easier and easier, that's a good sign
</font> fiddle around with some vacuum fittings, helps a little bit
</font> fiddle around with choke, helps a little bit more
</font> fiddle around with fuel hoses...just because
</font> go to parts store and get new spark plugs
</font> put said sparkplugs in
</font>BAM!!!!!! Man, she rides like a thing of beauty now!!!!
I had checked each spark plug and wires before and all were firing consistently so i figured all was good, despite them all being fouled. Appearantly that wasn't the case. Now she's running good and strong. The vacuum hoses were out of wack, and would have hurt the performance if i hadn't rerouted them. I didn't think the fouled plugs would make it run as bad as it did, but appearantly so. Moral of the story, GET NEW PLUGS!!!!

Thanks for all the help guys.