Help me decide....

[Greenfire]

I know the last thing we need is another SOA vs spring lift discussion thread... but I need some help deciding what the best option is for me. Perhaps some of you from the Mid-Atlantic FSJA crew could chime in, since you know the terraine (Pine Barrens and Rausch Creek)

Im almost done working the bugs out of my 87 GW, newer trans and transfer case are in, among other repairs. Soon it will be lift time.
I currently have the TTfabworks SOA kit and that has been my plan. My goal is to run 33s and have a safe on road ride and good off road capabilities. Rig will be used 4-5 times a year at most.

Im starting to think that the SOA is more expense and involved then I really need. The steering needs to be dealt with, drive shafts extended. I don't have the resources to do this work myself, so I either need to pay someone to help me or pay a shop to do it.$$$

Other option is to sell the TT kit and just buy BJs 6" lift and be done with it. This would allow me to run 33s. I could still go high steer later on if I decided to, but for now a DPA would work (correct me if Im wrong). Even if I had to pay a shop to just install a lift kit, it wouldn't be as involved.

Now I know the SOA will provide a better ride, more flex and is all around a better set up. But I don't know... so Im open to all opinions and advice given my objective.

[sungoesdown]

I did SOA/SF by myself with no air tools, a 1 car garage, a $25 floor jack, a cordless drill, sawzall and grinder. I had a neighbor weld my perches on the front axle, my drag link and tie rod, and my new front driveshaft. I took 2 front shafts, cut them and had him sleeve them and weld them. I just cut my trans x-member, and bolted the SF brackets.

[Headhoncho]

For simplicity I would do either 6" springs or 4" springs and a 2" body lift. If you have the time and tools then I would go the springover route. A DPA is advisable either way. Is the truck going to be street legal? In NJ a springover is illegal if using the original axles. Major PITA to get around it.


JR

[Greenfire]

For simplicity I would do either 6" springs or 4" springs and a 2" body lift. If you have the time and tools then I would go the springover route. A DPA is advisable either way. Is the truck going to be street legal? In NJ a springover is illegal if using the original axles. Major PITA to get around it.


JR

Well I live on the NJ border, registered in NY... I would like it street legal. 6" spring is starting to look enviting.

[JeepinPete]

Down in the pines, a 6" lift is all that I could justify.

At Rausch Creek, I ran with a 4" lift for awhile. After a day of wheeling, I was beat, quite literally. That 4" lift was done by the PO, and was basically re-arched stock springs with a leaf added.

The last Wagoneer I bought had a aftermarket 4" lift on it. To say it road like a dump truck is an understatement. The ride was much harsher than the re-arched springs.

The SOA with Waggy springs was a much more pleasant ride. I wasn't worn out after a day a Rausch Creek. Yes, it is more involved, but in the end your Wagoneer will drive and handle pretty much just like it does now, except it will have much larger tires. I personally think it is worth the effort and cost.

[danthegeek]

Another factor you need to consider is what condition your current leaf springs are in if you go SOA. If they are really saggy like mine are, then you have to factor in the cost of finding good used ones or new. Im going with a spring lift just for that reason. My rear passenger side sags 1.5 inches lower then the driver side. And the rear is already sagging pretty bad. Looks like a low rider in the back :omfg:

-Dan

[duncanstives]

I would put on the SOA as is and see how it steers... If it REALLY bad you have to go high steer, if its just kind of bad you need a DPA and there is always the off chance it would be OK (don't laugh... I have heard of it happening especially with later model GWs... Don't know why). I am getting there with my build and lift does not seem TOO hard... Of course having bought a axle that is spring over to begin with and having the rear axle already out (also new... Its a 14b) doesn't hurt but really it does not seem to bad.

I am taking the "wait and see" route with the steering... Gonna run it around the block a few times (at low speed!) once it is "done" and see how scary things are. The DPA (which I am GUESSING I can get by with does not require much taking apart to change (MAKE SURE you rent the removal tool though... You will need 1 1/4th. Its pretty much impossible to get it off without it and they will almost certainly try giving you the set in which the biggest one is 1 1/8th)

[Greenfire]

Thanks for all the inputs. Jeep now has a bad hesitation problem:confused: , once that is fixed Ill be making my final decision.

And yea a more comfy ride suspension at Rausch Creek does make for a more enjoyable day. Ive done it twice with my other Jeep ( 2"spring lift) and my kidneys hurt just thinkin about it.

[wickedwagon767]

You can get by with just a dropped pitman arm when going SOA. I had SOA with stock springs under my '78 Wagoneer and all that was used to correct the steering initially was the dropped pitman arm. It steered fine on the street. I didn't experience any drastic bumpsteer

The spring lift is simpler,but I would strongly recommend going SOA/SF using stock Wagoneer springs up front. You'll get 6-7" of lift and the ride will be so much better than with stiff 6" front springs.

Keep in mind, being spring-under from the factory, the stock arch in FSJ springs are like 4"lift springs under other fullsizes like Blazers and fullsize GM's. So, a 6" lift front spring will be arched like 10" lift springs in a solid-axle GM and if you've ever driven one of those...........ouch.

a. SOA/SF with dropped pitman arm
b. do the high-steer later,when you can afford it

:thumbsup:

[Greenfire]

Ok, I would like to go SOA/SF, starting with just a DPA will be a time and money saver for now...

A few more questions, so I can get this all straight.. Whats the recommended wheel and tire size? 33x10, 33x12?? Best to stay with a 15" rim? 15x9?? Would 33x12 fit on a stock wheel w no rubbing?

Now with these bigger meats do I have to change my gearing? My plan is to weld/lock the rear.

Other than extending the driveshafts, I think BJs has everything else I need..

[sungoesdown]

The recommended size on a narrow track is 33". I am running 35s and am rubbing the fenders/chunking brand new tires. I am running 35x12.50x15.

I only had to extend my front d-shaft.

The trans x-member will have to be modified.

I have not changed my gearing YET. I need to badly, but I still wheel it with stock 3.31s but I did put a lunchbox locker in the rear.

[phatmax95]

Stock wheel will give you too much backspacing and will rub on the leafs. Get some cheap 15x8 steelies. 33x12.5 will stuff real nice, and will still rub at full flex if your springs are good and broken in. I am geared 2.73 and it sucks but it is still totally doable. Shawn you didn't have to extend your rear shaft? I did, and the front. And I have to run a high angle joint in the front shaft- the angle is too great for the stock.

Something I don't hear mentioned often is having to pull the gas tank in order to get that driver side rear leaf spring bolt out. That will apply to either a lift kit or the soa, and I felt like it was a pita.

[sungoesdown]

No I did not extend my rear driveshaft, yet. It is close, but I will extend it when I install the 208. It was not necessary for me to drop the gas tank to get the front bolt out of the rear drivers side leaf sprinig because there was a captured nut, but I did drop the (full) tank while I was cutting and grinding doing the shackle flip.

It took me a week of evenings and two weekends to do the SOA/SF by myself in my little garage using minimal tools.

[phatmax95]

So do I, but mine just spun..

[Greenfire]

Updating an old thread... This is finally all starting to come together.

Another wheel question... what is the ideal best size wheel for a 33x12 tire. 15x10 is too big right??

[JeepinPete]

No, a 15x10 will work, but the tire won't offer much protection for it. I went from 15x10s to 15x8 with the 35's I was running since the 10's were prone to finding rocks...

[Headhoncho]

Thanks for all the inputs. Jeep now has a bad hesitation problem:confused: , once that is fixed Ill be making my final decision.

And yea a more comfy ride suspension at Rausch Creek does make for a more enjoyable day. Ive done it twice with my other Jeep ( 2"spring lift) and my kidneys hurt just thinkin about it.

Does your Jeep hesitate more when going to Jersey from NY or the other way around?? :p

I'll let you drive my truck at Rausch for a couple hours.......you'll be thinking your truck is a *gasp* Cadillac. You need firmer seats and less air pressure in your tires. You'll be fine.


JR

[Greenfire]

Ok Ill stick w the 15x8s

The hesitation was bad spark plug wires. I put all new vacuum hoses, plugs and wires.. runs good now:) Still sputters when I cross the NJ border tho;)

[Blake]

one of these days I will fix the links to the pics, but here is my soa build thread

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=54365 <---- this link shows how to do SOA for way cheep, yet extremely reliable and a good daily driver/weekend warrier

If you don't wanna go with the way I described in the thread above, do the following for a bolt on SOA using quality parts

get the TT's kit from here http://www.bjsoffroad.com/CartGenie/prod-844.htm

bolt those on...

Get the BJ's steering kit here http://www.bjsoffroad.com/CartGenie/prod-883.htm

bolt those on...

then have any local driveshaft shop extend your front shaft a couple of inches

bolt it on...

then measure to see what shocks you need and get them from a local parts store (yes, any local parts store can get "long" shocks for you)

Bolt them on...

Put on new front lines or make an extender for the hard lines.

Bleed your brakes if you replaced the lines.

Drive to your local alignment shop.

done

there is no reason why anyone with common hand tools can't do this on a saturday afternoon on a daily driver Full Sized Jeep.

If you wanna save some $$$ and do it like I did, read the link I posted in this thread. (BTW I sold the waggy that I built in my SOA thread to a friend, who sold it to his friend. That waggy has been severely abused and drives just as good as anything)

[Greenfire]

Thanks for the info sheperd. Im going with all new parts (TTfabworks) and cheaping out on the steering for now. Later on Ill go full high steer.

Next door, at work, is a transmission shop... where the job will get done. One of the mechanics there has helped me out quite a bit with other vehicular problems. So he said that he would do the SOA and I could come in every day. He is using it for "in between" jobs, so it will get done a little at a time and at a good price. I wish I could do more hands on, but just don't have the time and space. So this works and I can't wait for the finished product.

Just ordered tires today, Ill post up pics when its done.

[Greenfire]

Ok the SOA is done. Steering works fine on road. One spring is a little saggy, but not bad. My problem now is the driveshafts. They are connected, but the front one is stretched out all the way. The rear does have some room. Machine shop said the shafts need to be re-pitched, because the angle is to steep. They can't do that. No luck with a local driveline shop, won't return my calls and no address given. I have two other shops to try.

Do I need to be concernd about changing the angle? Rear long enough and just lenghthen the front? Anyone know a good driveshaft shop in NY/northen NJ? I need someone to evaluate and set it up right.

[novacayne75]

if your just trying to keep a budget then soa is the way to go. use a drop pitman arm and it will clear the spring on stock tierod. another sweet little thing to do is remove the center bolt fron the spwing pack and clean and paint all the leaves, its amazing just how much ride quality improves. if you want it a little lower and softer then leave out the short leaf at the bottom of the pack. but you dont have to go hysteer just to do soa if thats the worry.

[Artisan]

Looks like there is a bunch not to far from you. Do a driveby or three and stop in and say hello. These guys have a web site that looks professional, CLICK HERE (http://www.drivelinenj.com/)and also CLICK HERE (http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF8&q=Greenwood+Lake+Driveline&fb=1&gl=us&hq=Driveline&hnear=Greenwood+Lake&view=map&ei=NHS8SqCBLZCusgPdyLHcBQ&hl=en)to see a bunch more !



Ok the SOA is done. Steering works fine on road. One spring is a little saggy, but not bad. My problem now is the driveshafts. They are connected, but the front one is stretched out all the way. The rear does have some room. Machine shop said the shafts need to be re-pitched, because the angle is to steep. They can't do that. No luck with a local driveline shop, won't return my calls and no address given. I have two other shops to try.

Do I need to be concernd about changing the angle? Rear long enough and just lenghthen the front? Anyone know a good driveshaft shop in NY/northen NJ? I need someone to evaluate and set it up right.

[Greenfire]

Okay after talking to the mechanic who did the lift, he says that the shafts are connected and doesn't see why they need to be re pitched or extended. They work and are connected... So Im going to give it a test run off road soon.

That first shop looks good btw. From what ive found most of these places are machine shops that don't work on your vehicle.

Thanks for all the help!