TF727 or TH400?

[SVO42]

I have never dealt with a TF 727 that didn't leak. I don't like the way-too-early 2-3 shift, either. I have no personal experience with TH400s.

Between the two automatic transmissions, which do you prefer and why? Tranny gurus: what say you? Is one a better design than the other?

I'm curious since I like to research things and like to know ahead of time (future FSJ purchases :D).

[DAHoyle]

Some will probably disagree, but as far as I can tell, from a design standpoint, they are pretty much equal, and both have had many many variations over the years.

The one thing they have in common, is they were both placed behind their respective manufacturers most powerful big block engines. Both seem to have a reputation for parasitic drag.

Here is where it gets a bit sticky. The TH400 never came in a Jeep with anything besides a Quadratrac or D20, so swapping t-cases gets a bit trickier, if staying with Jeep only. Going aftermarket/custom, then the sky is the limit. you can also swap on a Chevy adapter and toss a 205 behind it.

The 727 can manage a 208, 207, 219, 229, and sometimes a D300 not to mention some of the stouter Baby Jeep offerings such as the 241, on the factory adapter, so the easy bolt on's are more plentiful. You can also swap a Dodge output adapter, and go with a 205 on them as well.

In the end, I would say it comes to personal choice, and I'm sure you will have many of each very soon.

[mattmopar440]

A TF727 is stronger I have never had a problem them. but with the th400s we have had just stupid little shifting problems to major failure with all of our th400 or 700r4 the two TF727 we have had are working and still working to this day :thumbsup:

keep it cool best upgrade is a deep pan and syn. fluid and a large cooler TF727 are smaller so the generate more heat and have less surface area to dissipate it

[Ted Wendel]

I've never had any trouble out of Turbo 400,and I like that it uses a wire for downshifting,instead of a cable.A 727 can explode,it may never happen in a Jeep,but if you break a drive shaft,u-joint,or rear end,it can mess up the rear over running clutch,and that will let the front clutch retainer spin at 2.2 times engine RPM's which it is not designed for.A 727 is shorter than a 400,my son has a 727 in his CJ-8,it only has a few hundred miles on it,but so far so good.

[JeepNOFEAR]

I've always heard they were about the same in strength. You more then likely will have more problems with a TH400 considering most have been on the road longer. I bet rebuilding a TH400 is cheaper too.

[KaiserMan]

I will Forever maintain that 727's (or any Dodge auto) is crap. Everyone I know that owns or has owned (myself included) has nothing good to say about Dodge auto's. Be they from cars, trucks or Jeeps. Early deaths, crappy odd shifting. More early deaths. Hardly ever see problems with TH350/375's or TH400/TH475's.

[incommando]

Let's see: 180,000 miles on a '93 CTD with an A518, the OD version of the 727. Injection jacked up withing an inch of its life and abused almost daily.

Dad's '87 B350: 225,000 miles & climbing. Tranny is original & fine

Needed fast replacement for junk powerglide in drag car. Purchased junk yard 727. swapped in manual valve body/convertor & went racing. tranny was fine when car was destroyed in wreck 6 years later. Oh, the car ran 9.20's with the little 440 in it and 8.70's when we put the big dog in. Never did rebuild the tranny.

IF you break an axle with an open diff at very high RPM's on a 727, the factory sprag may be pulled out of the case. fairly rare indicdent, but most hipo 727 rebuilds use a bolt-in sprag. the kind of over-revving rpm's needed to pull the sprag are probably unachievable by a stock engine in most cases.

I have nothing against the TH400, just saying......

[mattmopar440]

with the little 440 in it
I love them little motors :D

The only thing I can say the TH400 has over the TF727 is it take a hell of a long time for them to die I mean they kinda piss ya off My j10 Lost rev then third this took several weeks then finale got taken out of service

[TPICherokee]

I will Forever maintain that 727's (or any Dodge auto) is crap. Everyone I know that owns or has owned (myself included) has nothing good to say about Dodge auto's. Be they from cars, trucks or Jeeps. Early deaths, crappy odd shifting. More early deaths. Hardly ever see problems with TH350/375's or TH400/TH475's.

I have a friend that owns a transmission shop and has an 89 GW and he can't wait for the 727 to blow up so he can replace it with a better tranny (probably 700R4 or something similar).

The thing I hate about the 727 is the rinky dink kickdown linkage, it looks way too complex with too many parts to fail or maybe Rube Goldberg designed it...

[fulsizjeep]

I have years of driving experience with both of them and for the best of each breed, they are both CRAP. You asked for it.

[TPICherokee]

I have years of driving experience with both of them and for the best of each breed, they are both CRAP. You asked for it.

LOL

[janie]

I have years of driving experience with both of them and for the best of each breed, they are both CRAP. You asked for it.


:lol: :lol:

Flint, don't sugarcoat it like that. Just say what's on your mind!:lol:

The TH400 in Tequilla, WILL be my last slushbox.......

[mattmopar440]

The TH400 in Tequilla, WILL be my last slushbox.......
you say that now but once the high cost of getting you driveway seal coated every year when you jeep use to do if for free :D

I found now that if I have one at storage and the other at home as long as there not in line of sight of each other they dont get in leaking wars :eek:

[Kali]

simply from an observational standpoint, i see a lot more threads on here with 727 complaints than i do 400s. Now, is that because the 400s have been in trucks a few years longer and most have been rebuilt already whereas the 727s are just starting to fail? Possibly, but probably not. From what I have seen on here, the 400 is a safer bet.

[gsmikie]

considering that they are 40 year old trannies and everybody has messed with them and the fact that they are in 4x4 5000lb trucks that most people dont know how to drive i think thay are doing real well..... the one i like the most is the one that dont break or the one i happen to have parts for when it does break :D

[TooRisky]

Rebuilt the th400 along with my 401 and have never had a problem with either of them....

[bigun]

I had a buddy that blew up a few 727s of course they were behind his 500 Ci 750 HP big block in his Dart race car!! He found out that there was a problem with the passages in the case if the mold slipped the passages were not lined up and they restricted flow and KaBoom

[Dmntxn77]

Wow, I am surprised that the 727 is getting any votes.

Not that it is a POS tranny or anything, but you are putting it in competition with what is widely known to be the most common, most versitile, strongest, and most popular auto tranny for all kinds of applications ranging from drag cars to huge (both in size and hp) 4x4's...

With that said, IF I happened to have a FSJ with a 727, I wouldnt ditch it for a th400 unless a rebuild was due, and switching would be cheaper... In my case, it would probably be cheaper for me to swap in a 727 since I think it will bolt right up to my Klune, where as the th400 will require a new tailshaft and adapter in order to mate up. However, since I want the best on my rig, I am probably going to stick with the th400 regardless.

[COLOFIREMAN]

Ok I vote for the TF727. I plow ALOT and I have had to swap or rebuilt many TH400 to the one TF727 that I had in my GW88 with the plow. I love it Torque Flight tranny so much I've had the younger brother in my CJ, the TF904, with a pissed 360, one tons, and 39's. For rock crawling, back and forth, low speed, high torque, engines it's the best in my mind.

Now that I've said that I love the TH400 for long towing jobs, but that's about it. ;)

Ok I just about have all the SPF 1000 on.....:D

[duncanstives]

Having burned up lots of autos (I abuse them.. They get water in them, I don't change fluid as often as I should, etc) I really researched the 727 before buying the waggy... This article convinced me to buy one: http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/torqueflite-tom-hand.html

I have no expirience with a th400 but everything I have read says its also a great tranny... That said I have had my tanny overnight in water/mud, run for a long time locked in first with pretty high RPMs, offroaded in ways that shock loaded the crap out of it and otherwise thrashed... I am slightly embarassed to admit I have never changed the fluid but it still runs like that day it came off the line :D

[Dirt Wag]

I have no experience with the TH400 but I can vouch for the toughness of the 727. I got muddy water in mine twice and the second time it stopped working completely (like I was in neutral) and fluid/steam came out of the vent hole. When it cooled down some I put a quart of fluid in and it worked again. I got on the interstate and drove 10 miles at 70 MPH and it quit again. Same procedure, drove 10 more miles, quit again. Same procedure and got home. The fluid looked like a strawberry milkshake. I cleaned the mud out of the pan, flushed it, and put in a new filter and it's been working fine ever since.

[PlasticBoob]

I'd put my money on the TH400 any day. :drivin:

[710 Burner]

And this thread is back from the dead...just like an auto transmission.

[Bobbo]

I vote TH400. Like stated above, very common for all types of high power motorsports. In my FSJ life, I have never had a bad TH400, (i have had 4 in FSJ's) I have had 3 TF727 in FSJ's, and I bought 2 of them with blown out trannies. The 1 I bought that was running with the 727 was fine when I had it though. But I will say that NONE of the TH400 that I have had EVER gave up. I would not shy away from either or, but if you are going to swap t-cases its cheaper/easier to go the 727 route, if you are going to use a factory case. (like replacing a 229/228 with a 208, that is a cake swap) I had a hard time finding the TH400/D20 combo that will require a lot of work to swap in my QT vehicle. (thats why its not done)

[rebeljeep]

I voted for TF727....because its whats in mine : )

Seriously, both are good trannies-plenty of aftermarket potential. having had a 79 th400 that had to be rebuilt, and building my 727, both have their quarks but have provided reliable service. The trannie shop I worked at approved of both, but now some of the overdrive trannies were a different story....

[rustyolred]

I chose TH400 because of more availablity, but like the 727 cause of the t-case possibility.

[pineymike]

I just read all thease replys and I don't think anybody mentioned that early FSJ owners manuls said that in the event of lost brakes you could use reverse! I've beat on both with good results,only blewup 1 th400 turning 42's with 3:07 gears&nitrous in the comp mud bog! at the time it was also my DD so we towed it home droped it out sunday nite monday I took it back to the shop that built it monday, the guy said it was his mistake&fixed it no charge!!! put it back in monday nite drove it to work on tue.

[Eugene 1]

TF-727

[JeepMods]

I'll take a TH400...
Just wondering, What is the weight difference between the two?

[The PIG Smith]

IMHO, if the membership was polled, I would venture to guess that those that mostly own rigs with TH400, tend to like the TH400 better.
Those with rigs with 727, tend to like the 727 better.

It has been demonstrated several times that both are equal.

Now the opinions that would have any real meaning would be those that are from owners that own rigs of both TH400 and 727 and equal experience with them.

[srobertsfsj]

I didn't vote because I only have experience with the TH400 in my '74. That said, other than the mystery leak that I cannot find for the life of me, it's been a great tranny. I've beat the heck out it over the years and its the stock tranny with no rebuild. I have an 86 waggy with the 727 but I have yet to drive it because the engine needs replaced. Once I get it running I will be able to give feedback on it.

[j20brett]

I would burn the fluid in my 727 weekly before i had it rebuilt. Figured the clutches were toast. Ristow pulled it apart and showed very little wear to clutches...torwue convertor was shot. Ran and shifted like a champ even after being thoroughly overheated multiple times. Proves to me it is one tough trans.

[fulsizjeep]

IMHO, if the membership was polled, I would venture to guess that those that mostly own rigs with TH400, tend to like the TH400 better.
Those with rigs with 727, tend to like the 727 better.

It has been demonstrated several times that both are equal.

Now the opinions the would have any real meaning would be those that are from owners that own rigs of both TH400 and 727 and equal experience with them. I have years of driving experience with both of them and for the best of each breed, they are both CRAP. You asked for it. :D

[timmy401]

I've got the early th400 w/ the factory adapter(nailhead bell housing, I was told?) in my 73 Waggy. The olny problem I had with it is when the modulator started leaking into vacuum line. I put in 2 used ones from core transmissions I had, both started leaking within a weeks use. To change to the GM modulator I had to beg a local trans shop for the pin and valve for the GM version. bought a new one, used the used pieces, ALL GOOD ever since (4 years/ 20,000+ miles). I also have 998 in my 401 Gremlin. It took 3 rebuilds and over $1,500 to get it dependable. If you never heard of one the 998 is like the middle brother of a 904 + 727( closer to the 904). If your going to have one rebuilt find somebody that specializes in the type your using. There are enough aftermarket pieces out there to make any transmission almost bullet proof, if you know the weak points before hand- Not by finding them while you go. If I break the 998 again I'm going to have a th400 quadratrac bred with a short tailshaft 2wd chevy. TaDah- a no adapter th400 for AMC's.

[wonderwag]

just look at advance adapters web site, they sell adapters for every t-case to mate to a th400 and none for the tf727

[gotgas]

TF727

[Tatsadasayago]

Having long term experience with both transmissions and knowing the good, the bad and the ugly of both......

If they are maintained properly both will last a long time. If abused and neglected both will fail.

I like em both and only lean toward the 727 because of my long racing history with them and in the long run, the TH400 costs more to keep alive behind 500+ HP and torque numbers in the 600 Lb/Ft ranges.

In my FSJs I don't really care which one is installed.

Oh, and regarding leaks.......THEY ALL LEAK if not taken care of.

:drivin::fsj:

[lodmccloud]

Both are equal in terms of quality in my opinion, this is coming from a Mopar and Chevrolet household. I have 2 Big Block Mopars one a 440 the other a stroker 496 off of a 383 block. I have reamed the life out of both and never had a problem except doing stupid things like neutral drop or backing one of them down...........when I was younger. That problem you can fix with new parts and better internals.

The th400 I have to say is my favorite for towing duty, I ran one so hot it melted the O ring holding the dip stick in. Hosed it down with a water hose after I put the dipstick and oring in and finished the drive home. I think the th400 has more drag I know it eats a lot of power to get it moving.


Both can be built to last just about forever now even under huge strain and massive horsepower.

Remember they are fourty plus years old a new 4L80e 4L85E, or even the a518 is going to be better all around performance.

[Lindel]

I vote for whichever fits between the engine and transfer case.

[janie]

My vote goes to whiechever one pukes the least.

[mattbauer]

I've gotta say TH 400 because I've got two of them. One in the truck, and one in storage for when the first one blows up:thumbsup: .

[AMC-J/20]

TH400 or C-6 only 2 3spd automatic transmission's i have had good luck with :thumbsup:

The 727 i had behind a 318 was the bigest slipping only had reverse when it flet like wast of space tho that 318 was a joke as well . . . about as useless as the 302 fords and 350 chevy's . . .




Mike

[Josh D]

I vote TH400.

I don't like the TF727 cable kickdown and the fact the bands have to be adjusted. No bands to adjust in the TH400.

I do think the TH400s tend to leak more. However mine still seems to run fine 3-4 quarts low!:thumbsup:

[AMC-J/20]

Still standing firm on the TH-400 over the TF-727 but you know it all depends if your a Mopar or GM person, now if your a Ford person I would go C-6 would be Fords competitive equal !

Mike

[REDONE]

AAAAACCCKKKK! ZOMBIE THREAD!!!!:D

I'm an AMC convert from the Mopar camp. I've rebuilt four TF727s and four th400s, but I am not a trans guru like gsmikie (who is banned?). I have run Powerwagons and Ramchargers for years and most of my FSJs had TH400s. I like to rebuild TH400s more. For some reason, the oil pump is always a PITA on the 727s, some pieces are a little trickier to stuff in the case and little things like that. I don't have any dyno cards or nothing to show it, but my butt dyno says the 727 doesn't suck as much power. Rebuilding 400s always seems to go smoother, and somebody ALWAYS has the parts for it in town, the 727 I sometimes have to order a planetary set or sprag clutch then wait two days.

It's been said and I agree, having run both, I say they are equal.

[AMC-J/20]

TH400/TF727/C6 are the top 3spd automatic transmissions, after that Allison rules the auto trans world ;-) ! ! !

Mike