Edelbrock Intake manifold

[klank]

Newbie question here. Sorry, I did a search and could not find my answers.

Talked to the guy who built my 401 in my 89 and he says I have a 270 cam in it and was wondering what intake maifold I had on it. I do not know. He suggested I get a Edelbrock performace Intake manifold on it. I had to go so I couldn't ask him the important question.

Why?

Don't know much about these but would like to learn why he feels this way. Hows it different than the stock one.

It would be great if anyone with $.02 would throw it my way.

Thanks.

[jode]

Because they flow better so they give your engine the means for waking up a bit. Also, they provide the means for using an aftermarket carburetor (if you are running the stock manifo9ld, chances are you have the MC 4350 carb, and no other carb can fit on an intake that is designed for that carb) which would also liven up your engine a bit.

I swapped to a Edlebrock and Carter AFB a few moths back and REALLY noticed the difference. It is way peppier, and performs WAY worse on angles offroad. :(

I still need to get that offroad needle and seat kit or something for it...

[klank]

I have a fairly new Rochester Q-jet on it. I have problems with it though. I can't even pull my boat over the mtn and go over 50 mph. When I'm backing up my boat anywhere the engine always dies.

The one good thing about it is I can smoke your arse when I'm going 55 and step on it cause the secondaries on it are huge.

[timmirvin]

Well it sounds like you have carb adjustment problems...

But I would highly recommend the Performer. They are relatively inexpensive and make a big difference. I am running three of them and am pleased with all three.

tim

[RBJ]

I would go air-gap with that cam and the 401. Or at least run a spacer on that performer. The 401 air-gap combo seems to really work well. My budy runs one on his 75 cherokee. He runs a crane 268 and actually swapped from the perfomer to the air-gap he said he didn't notice any loss down low but had 'seat of the pants' performance increase in mid and upper rpm range. Just FYI

[Rande]

Tim, I have one Edelbrock Performer for my old 360. How can mount two more on there? Does it really help using three manifolds?

[Elliott]

I think the guy who built it was telling you to get an RV manifold because from the sound of your earlier post about the build on that motor it's probably a Torker or some variation of a highrise manifold for High rpm. If it's a highrise and since your cam is 270 degreed it probably is, you won't develop much torque at low rpm where 90% of FSJs wheel at because they're too heavy to fly.
Do not consider selling the manifold that is on there until you know what it is. There was a manifold, I believe it was a cross flow, for AMCs that are worth some $$$. If that's only a 270 cam it wasn't built for all out racing, but you'll do a lot better down in the 260 to 262 degree range.

[Stuka]

the air gap is for mid to top end. a 401 is not a mid to top end motor. its a big stroke v8 for low to semi mid range. So i say go performer.

if you get really lucky and find a Holley 'Z' dominator intake then your set. it was designed specifically for amc's. but they are very rare. But the are thebest intake around for a jeep IMHO.

[klank]

Elliot. The mechanic told me as well to use a 260 instead of the 270 he put in there. I got more word from him that it needs more for it to be a racing motor. He was real nice and told me to stop by someday and he would listen to the motor and try and get a feel of whats going on. I feel it's all the carbs fault right now. I guess a performance intake maifold, 260 cam, and some different gears should do the job to pull my house up over Mt. Hood.

[Stuka]

If you have the stock 2.73 or 3.31 gears those are going to kill your towing ability no matter how much power you have.

[jeepsr4ever]

hold on now about the 401 not being racey, i have made parts for guys running 8 second drag racing cars with 401's, granted they are heavily modded but the 401 will go where you take it, with forgings and dogleg heads, that 401 is prety much built for anything, i run a 75' 401 in my 7 with the summint 8601 cam (higher end) the lifter valley oil bypass, overbored mains, roller timing chain and roller lifter, she humps real good here are pics and stuff i have posted on my site that ive done to that motor
http://www.imgbay.com/sites/jeepsr4ever///oilmod2.jpg
http://www.imgbay.com/sites/jeepsr4ever///summit86000002.jpg
http://www.imgbay.com/sites/jeepsr4ever///summit%20cam0001.jpg
and this one for the mains
http://www.imgbay.com/sites/jeepsr4ever///oilmod7.jpg

[ September 17, 2003, 10:41 PM: Message edited by: jeepsr4ever ]

[jeepsr4ever]

and here is a r4b i modified for my 401, look at that port difference from stock to R4B!!

http://www.imgbay.com/sites/jeepsr4ever///stuff0001.jpg
http://www.imgbay.com/sites/jeepsr4ever///stuff0002.jpg

[Elliott]

Originally posted by Stuka:
the air gap is for mid to top end. a 401 is not a mid to top end motor. its a big stroke v8 for low to semi mid range. So i say go performer.

if you get really lucky and find a Holley 'Z' dominator intake then your set. it was designed specifically for amc's. but they are very rare. But the are thebest intake around for a jeep IMHO.It's not showing up on the Edelbrock site, but I thought we had discussed the Air Gap on here a while back and concluded from an advertisement in a magazine that there was the AMC RPM Air Gap for 1500-6500 RPM and then there was an AMC Air Gap for off idle-5500 RPM.
If you want a dual plane manifold you can use the Offy 360 which you can also get through Summit.

"a 401 is not a mid to top end motor" :eek:
Not sure what you're yer smoking, but I know it's not tires. smile.gif
I really don't know where some of you guys come up with this stuff to dis on the 401, but I doubt it came experience at the race track running one. Not that I've raced them, but the guys that are, and have, certainly don't seem to suffer any competitive performance between "mid to top end." Maybe you missed Dave's (Dave Allen Racing) comments about his motors earlier...? If y'all won't listen to the guys that race them, and you don't race them then why dis on 'em because yer only propagating theory from the GM camp.
Mine dynoed (desktop) at 500FT/lbs at 2300RPM with a MILD build and could have cammed it to come in at 3500...... WHAT THE FREAK AIN'T MID RANGE ABOUT THAT?
If you consider 10,000 RPM to be a "top end" motor you're right, but then very few small blocks can be built to do that and they darn sure aren't running hydralic lifters.

[ September 18, 2003, 06:09 AM: Message edited by: Elliott ]

[Hammer]

On almost every engine tested, the Performer RPM had as good, or better low range then the regular Performer.
No loss with the performer RPM air-gap except the couple extra dollars.
As for the Torker, they run just fine on 360 and larger motors, even just lugging them around. You just have to TUNE your carb differently, and pay more attention to your timing. I consistantly lugged my 360 and 401's around with a Torker intake and felt they did an excellent job.

[Stuka]

Originally posted by Elliott:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Stuka:
the air gap is for mid to top end. a 401 is not a mid to top end motor. its a big stroke v8 for low to semi mid range. So i say go performer.

if you get really lucky and find a Holley 'Z' dominator intake then your set. it was designed specifically for amc's. but they are very rare. But the are thebest intake around for a jeep IMHO.It's not showing up on the Edelbrock site, but I thought we had discussed the Air Gap on here a while back and concluded from an advertisement in a magazine that there was the AMC RPM Air Gap for 1500-6500 RPM and then there was an AMC Air Gap for off idle-5500 RPM.
If you want a dual plane manifold you can use the Offy 360 which you can also get through Summit.

"a 401 is not a mid to top end motor" :eek:
Not sure what you're yer smoking, but I know it's not tires. smile.gif
I really don't know where some of you guys come up with this stuff to dis on the 401, but I doubt it came experience at the race track running one. Not that I've raced them, but the guys that are, and have, certainly don't seem to suffer any competitive performance between "mid to top end." Maybe you missed Dave's (Dave Allen Racing) comments about his motors earlier...? If y'all won't listen to the guys that race them, and you don't race them then why dis on 'em because yer only propagating theory from the GM camp.
Mine dynoed (desktop) at 500FT/lbs at 2300RPM with a MILD build and could have cammed it to come in at 3500...... WHAT THE FREAK AIN'T MID RANGE ABOUT THAT?
If you consider 10,000 RPM to be a "top end" motor you're right, but then very few small blocks can be built to do that and they darn sure aren't running hydralic lifters.</font>[/QUOTE]What I ment is a 401 is not ann engine your going to be running at 6500rpm in a Jeep. You can mod them for this rpm yes, but it would loose its lower end and thus suck for usage in a jeep. Mostly stock they work from idle to 3800ish best like most V8's of its setup. But this doesnt mean you cant mod them to do what ever you want. Sorry for the confusion.

[jeepsr4ever]

I see your point stuka

I guess we have a couple different viewpoints one is the low end creepers and torquers, and another is the DEEP geared high revving philosophy, whichever way you go, good luck in your travels guys.

[Elliott]

"What I ment is a 401 is not ann engine your going to be running at 6500rpm in a Jeep. You can mod them for this rpm yes, but it would loose its lower end and thus suck for usage in a jeep. Mostly stock they work from idle to 3800ish best like most V8's of its setup. But this doesnt mean you cant mod them to do what ever you want. Sorry for the confusion."

I can appreciate that, I confuse easily. :D
It seems that most of this forum is into off idle torque or nothing, and down on 401s. There is a heck of a lot of wheeling done at higher RPMs, a fair percentage of it in mud and definately in snow (not that I see much of that after leaving Alaska) and for darn sure in sand. Crawlin' is fine and the only way to go on some terrain.... but Jeeps should be competitive in all terrains. There are tremendous similarities between wheeling in mud and in snow, the Cherokee is the very best mid to top weight contender for climbing in snow... bar none, and you don't accomplish that crawlin'. If a full size rig is going to be able to stay up with baby jeeps in bog country you won't do it crawlin'.
I'm not too worried about off idle torque, I like to have it to pass also, and I'm planning a doubler for the low end. You can have both.
Thanks for the comments Stuka, I'll try to lighten up.

[RBJ]

Elliot well put!

I have to agree with Hammer, All the air-gap will do take a few extra bucks out of your pocket but you won't loose any low end power over the performer. I know that Edelbrock says 1500-5500 rpm but from everything I have seen "real" world it performs just as good as the performer down low and a hell of alot better then the performer mid to high end. Granted high end will probably never bee seen but the mid sure will with no overdrive and doing 65-70 mph.

Just my two cents!

[ September 18, 2003, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: RBJ ]

[klank]

Great Dueling. I posted in here a few days ago that My 401 is pretty dog slow on the low end and when I get to about 55-60 mph and I step on it I'm gone like a bat outta H*ll.

So my passing abilities w/o towing rock!

The 2econdaries on the Qjet work great. I don't like the primaries.

To keep that mid power, goin with the 260 cam, and new intake what size gears should I use? Sizes anyone? I know I'm currently a size 15 wide.

[Stuka]

Elliot yes to an extent. In my snow driving I stay around 3000rpm or so in my Cherokee. Not sure what the 258 will like with my J10, except its peak torque is at 1800rpm and it has high gears, so it will prob like the mid rpm range also.

I am a fan of torque because I live in steep terrain. We have no flat roads here. Spose I should have mentioned that.

But yeah an engine should be built to the area your in. For met its all steep terrain so low-mid end power is everything in a truck.

If you live in the flats, it can be a very different story. You need that mid-top end power for passing on freeways and such.

Oh, and NP elliot, we each have our own opinions smile.gif

[ September 18, 2003, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: Stuka ]

[klank]

Nothing about Oregon is Flat. Everywhere I go Except in the valley where I live is hilly. Southern Oregon has alot more flat spots until you get to the border.

[Elliott]

Boy I would have loved to have this J200 up in Alaska! I think I'd have a lot better float factor on these 40x17s.
Go boggin up there in the spring and if you're running narrow tires you sink to your axles just a soon as you leave the road. I was running mud terrains and a rear locker, had to have a 6x come get me twice.
If you wanna see some torque check out an old military Turbo Diesel multifuel duece-n-1/2 6x6. My god those things are sweet, pto winches front and rear, whisker poles on the flatbed. They make darn good idiot retrievers.

[Hammer]

You know, if you are going to change your gears, why don't you leave the engine alone for now?
Well, maybe figure out your timing/ignition and carb issues first.
But that cam isn't that bad in the 401, a bit much for a 360 and what you want, but the 270° in the 401 will actually be closer to how a 260° would run in the 360.
Also, gears make SUCH a world of difference when it comes to overcoming both the weight of the vehicle and hills. I grew up driving the back roads over the Sierra Navadas from CA to NV. And it's really all about having the right COMBO. Not just one thing to make up for everything else.

[Stuka]

Originally posted by Hammer:
You know, if you are going to change your gears, why don't you leave the engine alone for now?
Well, maybe figure out your timing/ignition and carb issues first.
But that cam isn't that bad in the 401, a bit much for a 360 and what you want, but the 270° in the 401 will actually be closer to how a 260° would run in the 360.
Also, gears make SUCH a world of difference when it comes to overcoming both the weight of the vehicle and hills. I grew up driving the back roads over the Sierra Navadas from CA to NV. And it's really all about having the right COMBO. Not just one thing to make up for everything else.Yup you hit the nail on the head about gearing. I live in the sierra nevadas now just north of yosmite, lots of hills smile.gif

[klank]

Sounds good guys. I'll print this stuff off so I can remember it when i'm actually in the grubbies workin on the Klank.