Diesel powered FSJ Debtate Ford 7.3/6.9 vs Dodge cummins vs Chevy diesel

[The PIG Smith]

Has anyone here swapped engines and installed a Cummings Turbo L6 or a International(Ford)PowerStroke V8 diesel?

I love sounds and smells that Cummings Turbo!

Was just wondering how hard it would be to shoehorn a beastly powerplant like under the hood a Jeep truck?

I suppose one would have to get engine, radiator, wiring hardness and brain, tranny, transfer case, build new driveshafts, exhaust, linkages to tranny and fuel system..wow lots of work, but sounds like fun!

Comments?

[Sgt. Dave]

A diesel swap has been discussed here quite a bit. The Cummins 6BT is really long, a 4BT would come closer to making it. A Chevy\GMC 6.5 would go with no problem (size wise)
I'm with you, diesel is neat!

[Gladi8r]

Bryan, I have done quite a bit of checking in this area. The Cheby 6.2/6.5TD is probably the easiest swap if you wanna run a TH400/QT or Th400/D20 drivetrain. The trick is to get an entire vehicle as a donor rig and take everything you need from it. The cheby diesels after 1994 have the electronically controlled injectors so you wanna stay away from them(unless you wanna do a lot of extra wiring). I called Adavanced Adapter couple weeks ago and they have an adapter that will go between a SBC engine and Jeep tranny regardless of tranny types for approx $389, they also have an adapter from NV4500 to Jeep xfer if ya wanna go that route($580.55). I am leaning more towards the possibilities of using a Ford 6.9 or 7.3 Powerstroke in my 71 Gladiator. I am told(but have not verified) that the T18 I now have in my Gladiator will bolt to the Ford diesel. This is a definate "will do" project for me, however everything is dependant on money available at the time :D :D If you need any info, let me know and I will share/swap anything I find out.

[WillyPete]

you could always run a GM bolt pattern th400 and swap in the rear housing and rear shaft from an AMC th400 to use a qtrac, couldn't you?

[Careful34]

While we're on diesels again, anyone have any good diesel links they'd like to share? smile.gif

Sgt. Dave: is the 4BT the 4 cylinder version of whats in the Dodge trucks? I was talking to a guy who had one for sell recently (turboed and intercooled) and he said it made 120hp. We get like 185hp out of a 360 right? Wouldn't this make the wag even more sluggish?

[243]

The 3.9/4BTA is the same as the 5.9/6BTA less two cylinders. They will except most if not all the power parts as the 6B used in pre-98.5 Dodge trucks. Here is more information and where you will find the 4B, the fellow that bought my Dodge was a Cummins engineer at the Columbus plant. We have emailed back and forth several times and he sent the following information to help in my search.
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They can be found just about anywhere in just about anything: Step Vans, Bread Trucks, Fork lifts, Gen-sets, Boats, Skid-Loaders, fire pumps, Ford Trucks in South America, Airport Tugs, Pavement Rollers, many Logging and construction applications. CASE/NEW Holland also use this engine as there own, since we have a joint
venture with them. The engine is used and made all over the world, the US mainly uses engines built in Rocky Mount, North Carolina; but also ones built in Darlington, England tend to show up here as well. But plants in South America, China and Japan (Komatsu) make them as well.

Most likely what you would want to look for is a Step Van configuration, which where made by Freightliner, General Motors, and Workhorse. The applications are usually pick-up and delivery, like Fed EX and UPS.

They are also in many configurations:

4BNA - A naturally aspirated engine (No Turbo) - HP 55-80, usually airport tugs.

4BT - Turbocharged but with no after turbo air treatment - HP 70-100, just about anywhere. Similar arrangement as to what was on the early
Dodges, 1989-1991 with rotary pumps.

4BTA - Turbocharged with after turbo air treatment, either with a charge air cooler or can water-jacket coolant after cooled. Commonly the 130 hp rating. There is a 250 hp marine rating as well.

4B - Alternative Fuels - There are some that run on natural gas and propane.

Typically two different pumps are used on them, either the Bosch rotary VE pump or the Bosch inline A or P pump. You may want to find one out of any automotive configuration. That way if it has the inline pump, it has an automotive
governer and not an off road governer. But it you find a good deal on one in a off road vehicle, you can always have the pump reworked. Plus a 4BT
might be a way to go so you don't have to deal with any after turbo air treatment, unless you can get this all from a doner vehicle/engine.

As far as price, that is a difficult one. A new engine is probably, only a estimate, between $3000 and $4000. A used one in decent condition may be between be between $1000 and $2000, depending on if you have to buy what it is in. Probably the best thing to do is talk to the local Cummins distributor or browse on the web.
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The best source of information for Dodge trucks and Cummins engines is TDR turbodieselregister.com (http://turbodieselregister.com) you will find a very active BB with a section on Cummins conversions.

[FSJeeper]

The Cummins 6 cylinder B series diesel engine is a viable swap for a FSJ. There are no major issues including the length of the engine that would prevent or make this swap difficult. I have a friend who I watched do this swap and his FSJ looks like it came factory equipped with the Cummins B series engine.

Prior to installing the Cummins in his FSJ, he had a heavily built GM 6.5 ltr custom turbo diesel in his FSJ. I bought this from him and it is going in my FSJ.

I have pic of this Texas FSJ and the Cummins swap. The swap includes the Cummins B engine, built auto, NP205, Dana 70 front with discs, Dana 80 rear. Complete truck Rhinolined inside and out.
Both axles locked, 40" tires. Daily driven.

I can't figure out how to post the PICS here, but I doubt if anyone here has seen or heard of a FSJ built this well.

[243]

FSJeeper~

I would love to see the pic's, is the Cummins powered rig in Houston also?

Email the pics and I will upload them to my server and post them here.

Where did he get the D70? My Dodge had a D60 front and that sucker was huge.

[FSJeeper]

I got the Dana 70 front axle out of a 1973 Dodge 1 ton truck. Doing the front disc. conversion was too much for me, so I traded it to the guy for an Eaton gearsplitter/OD.

I just posted some PICS of his FSJ at The M715 Zone at yahoo clubs. You can go there to see them and /or copy them and post them somewhere else.

I was building an M715 and decided to build a short wheelbase FSJ. I cut the top off of a Cherokee Chief, and putting the M715 front clip, doors, soft top, and fold down military windshield
on it. Also going to put some 40" wheel tubs in the back to match the front M715 fender flairs.

The engine is the built up GM 6.5 custom banks turbo engine, Eaton gear splitter/OD, Cummins NV4500, Cummins NP205, Dana 60/70 axles, both locked and disc's. Hummer 2 piece runflat/beadlock wheels with neww 37" Hummer MT's.
Military waterproof wiring, etc. I should be done with it by this spring.

[Gladi8r]

FSJeeper, I would be interested in any info you have on the 6.5TD swap. :D :D you can email me at donp@adelphia.net

[FSJeeper]

The GM 6.5 TD engine swap is pretty much just like a small or big block Chevy swap. Uses the same engine mounts, bellhousings, trannys, tcase combinations as a gas engine except the Diesel Automatics have a lower stall and are beefed up from the factory.

I will be taking a lot of PICS of mine and will post and email you with them.

[Gladi8r]

Thanks, appreciate the info, and I am looking forward to the pics :D

[bigwillys]

How about a Powerstroke7.3/NP435/NP205 swap? you'd have to make mounts, trans crossmember, but other than that, iw shouldnt be too bad. I know the 205 low-range isn't great, but a 208 and the 7.3 would be just asking for trouble. you would also probably need stiffer springs in front, these things are HEAVY. I'd never be able to afford it, but it would certainly give you the torque you want smile.gif

[Sgt. Dave]

The 4BT are pretty common, and fairly inexpensive

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=600970505&r=0&t=0&showTutorial=0&ed=1012671241&indexURL=0&rd=1

When you start building up a 6.5, you can spend $$$ quick.

I didn't think a 6BT would go. Dodge had trouble fitting them in the old body style.

[sandmanb]

what were the diesels in the military cucv 1-ton chevy trucks,i have a lead on one with the turbo400 and the np208 and wireing harness ,whats a fair price?.and what about horse power?

[Careful34]

That auction closed at $2161 and the reserve still wasn't met. That's alot more than I paid for the whole Jeep.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of mileage do these engines get?

[Stolen76]

oil changed and maintained you could expect at least 250k miles before overhaul. I've seen them run in many fleets around 350,000 miles before overhaul.

one thing you may want to look at tho... don't consider the horsepower as much as you do the torque. with the diesel you have a lower rpm range and a lot more torque. plan on running numerically lower gears.

even a 105hp 4bta should be around 375 ft. lbs. of torque. (about the same as the 360)

[Stolen76]

http://dieselenginetrader.com/det_cfm/Index_1.html

[Gladi8r]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by sandmanb:
what were the diesels in the military cucv 1-ton chevy trucks,i have a lead on one with the turbo400 and the np208 and wireing harness ,whats a fair price?.and what about horse power?<hr></blockquote>

6.2 chevys no turbo

[Pakistan Jeep Guy]

Hey ppl..
I know you dont have toyota deisel engines there in the US.. Well OK.. not very common.. I have a 3.5 Litre 4 cylender deisel in my 1979 Cherokee. I will post some pics in the near future..

[243]

BTT for the renewed diesel interest.

[Stolen76]

Pakistan Jeep Guy... how's the fuel economy in that, and YES ! let's see some pics !

[crazyguy]

BTT for yet more interest

[rawdave]

This is the engine I want:
ISB 170 Cummins (http://www.cummins.com/na/pdf/en/products/truck/specsheet/4000161.pdf)

New $3850

Ok Tech question for you guys:

If the optimum RPM range is 2100 - 2400, on stock tires in a grand wagoneer and the 3.31 gears, what speed would i be traveling???

[ February 19, 2003, 05:02 AM: Message edited by: rawdave ]

[Mikel2]

Doesn't sound like a bad deal...

[243]

58.5 @ 2100

66.9 @ 2400

[rawdave]

243, thanks,

i will probably put in an od tranny to bump that up a bit...