How to break a dana 60 30 spline rear shaft....video included

[jtr]

Snapped just outside the carrier.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/justinroose/cottonwood%2009/bdayboliva2009017.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/justinroose/cottonwood%2009/bdayboliva2009022.jpg


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/justinroose/cottonwood%2009/th_howitbroke.jpg (http://s71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/justinroose/cottonwood%2009/?action=view&current=howitbroke.flv)

[jeeping1974]

ouch!

[orangecherokee]

that didn't look like much force but nice little pop there :thumbsup:

[jtr]

that didn't look like much force but nice little pop there :thumbsup:

After seeing the video, looks like my belly was sitting on the rock and rear tires were trying to push into the rock.

Having a tough time deciding on keeping the rear 60....carry a spare shaft or swap to a 14 bolt that I have sitting in the garage (same gears). Being lazy is getting the best of me but that dana 60 would be great in my wifes 65 chevy on 33s.

[redneckengineered]

Don't even bother keeping the rear 60 if you're not going to upgrade to 35 spline. I ride with a guy that literally breaks a 30 spline rear shaft every ride. We plan on it. He always has spares and we just stand around and drink beer while he changes it. He's even tried the "upgraded" Yukon 30 spline. No difference. My personal opinion is that it's only marginally stronger than a 44 just from what I've seen. Broach the spindles to 35 spline and forget it or buy a 14 bolt.

[Ron H]

Dana 60 shafts are the same size as 14 bolt, i have both.

[jepj2000]

Nice video and pop!:thumbsup:

I would just go with the 14blt you already have for the same reasons already posted.

I eventually plan to dump my rear 60 for a 14blt or D70.

Rankin

[redneckengineered]

Dana 60 shafts are the same size as 14 bolt, i have both.

Stock 30 spline dana 60 shafts are not the same size. They are around 1.3" I believe. A 14 bolt is 1.5" as is Dana 60 35 spline shafts.

[jeeper4life]

Dana 60 shafts are the same size as 14 bolt, i have both. A 14 bolt full floater has 1 9/16" 30 spline axle shafts so they are much larger. The splines are very coarse compared to a 35 spline dana 60 axle but are extremely strong. They also have a carrier bearing at the back of the pinion gear for more strength. I was just at Moab Utah andd watched a full size chevy pickup jump over and over 3.5 feet straight up to get up an obstacle and not break. Unbelieveable! He drove like that the whole week and did not break anything so don't ever discount a 14 bolt's strength. A lot of hardcore rock crawlers are getting rid of they're Dana 60's and 70's for 14 bolts so that should tell you something.

[jtr]

Don't even bother keeping the rear 60 if you're not going to upgrade to 35 spline. I ride with a guy that literally breaks a 30 spline rear shaft every ride. We plan on it. He always has spares and we just stand around and drink beer while he changes it. He's even tried the "upgraded" Yukon 30 spline. No difference. My personal opinion is that it's only marginally stronger than a 44 just from what I've seen. Broach the spindles to 35 spline and forget it or buy a 14 bolt.

Thanks. I am going to swap it and find the next weak link.

[Dmntxn77]

Dana 60 shafts are the same size as 14 bolt, i have both.


:thumbsdown:

[blt2krl]

Dana 60 shafts are the same size as 14 bolt, i have both.

Is the 14 bolt you have the semi Floater? My 14 bolt has the 1 1/2 but does taper down as it goes into the carrier. With that said it is still thicker than the dana 60 at the taper down section.

[Ron H]

Full floater and the taper is the exact same size as my 60 shafts at the taper, wich is where they usualy brake. I do agree the 14 bolt is a better choice other wise i wouldn't have run one. Not trying to start a debate here just stating what i have and have measured.:thumbsup:

[Joe Guilbeau]

Uh,


Can you say Short Wheelbase?:banghead:


I'm just sayin...:eek:

[Stuka]

D60 shafts are the exact same spline count and diameter as D44 shafts. What makes them stronger is the fact that they are full floaters. A 14FF has much larger shafts than a stock D60. A 35 spline upgrade to the D60 will make it MUCH stronger. You may still break the R&P with big enough tires and enough skinny pedal. But for most it seems to work fine.

[NVJEEPER]

:thumbsup: great videos man!!! So you broke the right side?

[Ron H]

Ok so i went outside and measured my shafts again and you are correct, i miked them and they are slightly different. I do still theink a 14 bolt is stronger, but you have to take in concideration tire size and gearing, to much or not enough can cause alot of issues.

[noflyzone]

Nice snap! Made the camera man jump.

[jtr]

:thumbsup: great videos man!!! So you broke the right side?

It was driverside.

[Headhoncho]

Ok so i went outside and measured my shafts again and you are correct, i miked them and they are slightly different. I do still theink a 14 bolt is stronger, but you have to take in concideration tire size and gearing, to much or not enough can cause alot of issues.

I'll take my 14 bolt over a d60 anyday. Do it right the first time.


JR

[jtr]

Got the 14 B in today and some measurement of shaft diameters. Pics to follow

[Heimeken]

That is nice clean pop/break. But I think that beer caused the break!:D

[JeepsAndGuns]

POW....lol

Looks like the splines started to twist a bit before it broke. I wonder if the twisted splines happened there, or have been like that for a while.

[jtr]

14 bolt

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/justinroose/14boltinstall002.jpg

ford 60

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/justinroose/14boltinstall005.jpg

[incommando]

D60 is a dandy front. But for a rear? Probably better in stock or near stock rigs unless the rig is pretty light. You havethe 14B, so you are set. I prefer the D70HD, but you already have the 14B.

[blt2krl]

D60 is a dandy front. But for a rear? Probably better in stock or near stock rigs unless the rig is pretty light. You havethe 14B, so you are set. I prefer the D70HD, but you already have the 14B.

What does the d70HD have that is stronger than the 14b? Just curious?

[401c.h.i.e.f.]

i have a dana 70-3 hd for sale 35 spline srw but no drums

was in middle of disk conversion then i bought 406 portals :D :D :D

[redneckengineered]

What does the d70HD have that is stronger than the 14b? Just curious?

He may have been referring to more gear ratio choices. It also has more ground clearance stock especially if you get the U model. Not necessarily stronger tho.

Dana 60s are great, you just got to upgrade to the 35 spline shafts.

[Guru]

Sweet rig,none the less!!

[incommando]

d70HD's have 4" thick-walled axle tubes, 35-spline shafts, larger pinions & bearings than even a D70, to start. GM used them in the high GVWR duallies (up tp '01) that exceeded the abilities of the 14B that they put in the lower rated duallies. You can put a D60 cover on it & trim the pumpkin to D60 size.

[gotmike]

the dana 70-U that he referred to has an undersized pinion bearing and it can have 32 or 35 spline axles... while the 70-HD has the same bearings as a Dana 80 and is only available with 35 spline axles... plus you can go up to 7.17 gears but by then the pinion is pretty small/weak... oh and they have 1.750" dia. axle shafts

[redneckengineered]

Go break a Dana 70-U w/ 35 spline shafts and get back to me. You wouldn't break a Dana 60 with 35 spline shafts. You guys are focused on the wrong details. For us, it's all about shaft strength, sometimes R&P if you really beat on your junk. 4" thick walled tubes and oversized pinion bearings is not a real concern once you get to Dana 60 size stuff and up. It's not like you're slinging these under a dumptruck and towing 15k. All I was sayin...

[jtr]

Good summary :thumbsup:

[incommando]

A stronger foundation helps in a number of ways, one of which is the prevention of deflection. Keeping everything where it belongs is a big aid in the prevention of breaking things. Pinion diameter, axle shaft diameter, axle tube diameter, and carrier bearing size all prevent this movement. Having your axle tubes flexing is hard on bearings & shafts. Having the internals of the diff. shifting is hard on stuff. Preventing that moving is a good thing . Diameter & material are the keys to preventing shaft breakage as opposed spline cout in most cases. Spline count will help most in preventing the axle from spinning in the carrier. Which would have prevented the break that started this thread: 5 more splineson the axle or .25-.5" more axle diameter?

It is just much easier to buy a D70HD from the start (for about the same money) than it is to buy a D60 & modify it. Even modified, the D60 will not equal the D70HD for all of the other reasons cited.
D60 < 14B. 14B < D70hd.

-Again, a lighter weight rig has fewer issues. A 3/4 ton truck is something else entirely.

[AlsChopShop]

wow, i don't have much faith in my D60 anymore.... i figured the weak link was the HD44 front! :eek:

Al

[gotmike]

and for 500 bucks you can get a full spool for one instead of just welding the gears... and that's much cheaper than a locker and much stronger... or for about the same price you can get a detroit locker... or an ARB air locker for just 800 bucks...

[Headhoncho]

and for 500 bucks you can get a full spool for one instead of just welding the gears

Isn't that the reason for welding the gears in the first place? I'd spend the $15 in welding supplies to save $485.00



JR

[gotmike]

buddy of mine welded the gears in his 14 bolt... then when he really got on it one time about 4 months down the road he shattered the spider gears themselves... ripped straight through the dif cover and ate the ring & pinion by the time he was able to get off the trail... basically trashed most of the axle... and he had a 480 volt .40 wire mig to weld his up with... but i will say this for the axle... he didn't break an axle shaft... i think the real problem was that it kept shuddering as he tried to climb the hill... gaining and loosing traction with every rock he hit...

[rockjeep44]

A stronger foundation helps in a number of ways, one of which is the prevention of deflection. Keeping everything where it belongs is a big aid in the prevention of breaking things. Pinion diameter, axle shaft diameter, axle tube diameter, and carrier bearing size all prevent this movement. Having your axle tubes flexing is hard on bearings & shafts. Having the internals of the diff. shifting is hard on stuff. Preventing that moving is a good thing . Diameter & material are the keys to preventing shaft breakage as opposed spline cout in most cases. Spline count will help most in preventing the axle from spinning in the carrier. Which would have prevented the break that started this thread: 5 more splines on the axle or .25-.5" more axle diameter?


You do know that when I'm referring to 35 spline shafts in my Dana 60 they are 1.5" alloy Moser axles right. Not just stock sized shafts with more splines ;) Upgrading spline count and not shaft diameter would not really gain anything.


and for 500 bucks you can get a full spool for one instead of just welding the gears... and that's much cheaper than a locker and much stronger... or for about the same price you can get a detroit locker... or an ARB air locker for just 800 bucks...

This doesn't make hardly any sense.

[jtr]

buddy of mine welded the gears in his 14 bolt... then when he really got on it one time about 4 months down the road he shattered the spider gears themselves... ripped straight through the dif cover and ate the ring & pinion by the time he was able to get off the trail... basically trashed most of the axle... and he had a 480 volt .40 wire mig to weld his up with... but i will say this for the axle... he didn't break an axle shaft... i think the real problem was that it kept shuddering as he tried to climb the hill... gaining and loosing traction with every rock he hit...

If that happens, I will put 5.13s and a spool in it. Need a good excuse to re-gear.

A little more info about your buddies rig would be good.....weight, tire size, engine, doubler, linked, ?????

[gotmike]

This doesn't make hardly any sense.

yeah... i noticed that too... i was looking up prices as i typed... i had looked up the spool before... but not the locker... so i posted the spool info... then posted the locker info a couple minutes later... and didn't pay enough attention...

My buddies rig was an 80 Chevy blazer... axles upgraded, NP205, leaf springs, IIRC he had a 454 but it was bone stock... so just some extra weight in the front... and that might have been the difference... but you never know... everyone i know who has welded their gears seems to get different results... i know some that have just cracked out the weld and didn't do any damage... some have been running that way for 4 or 5 years... i just don't like the risk of it breaking... but hopefully you'll be one of the lucky one's an never need to worry...:D

[Slick Willie]

Yep, proof again that it doesn't take much to pop sometimes. I was on flat ground turning in 4wheeldrive when my front stock D60 stub broke. I was sitting there going "Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley?". You have a rough time getting back?

[jtr]

Yep, proof again that it doesn't take much to pop sometimes. I was on flat ground turning in 4wheeldrive when my front stock D60 stub broke. I was sitting there going &quot;Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley?&quot;. You have a rough time getting back?
No problem getting back to the trailer, it was only 10 miles. Took the broken piece out and slapped the shaft back in, even recycled the oil in a zip lock bag! Kinda a buzz kill for the trail ride but the weather and scenery were *****en. Camping in the mountains is my favorite!

[Casey]

Looks like fun anyway!



If you want 35 splines and 1.5" shafts you'll have to ditch the stock D60. The spindles can't be bored. I have one over at the machine shop, now. He said no can do.
A D60HD already has them and many other D60 spindles can be bored to accept the 1.5" shafts. The one under my Chief is from a 3/4 ton Dodge p/u. IIRC the machine work was $150. Custom shafts cut and splined was just over $300.

Not cheap at all when you can find a D70HD or 14b for about $150.

[rockjeep44]

Looks like fun anyway!



If you want 35 splines and 1.5" shafts you'll have to ditch the stock D60. The spindles can't be bored. I have one over at the machine shop, now. He said no can do.
A D60HD already has them and many other D60 spindles can be bored to accept the 1.5" shafts. The one under my Chief is from a 3/4 ton Dodge p/u. IIRC the machine work was $150. Custom shafts cut and splined was just over $300.

Not cheap at all when you can find a D70HD or 14b for about $150.

You're really doing something if you find a stock 60 with spindles that can't be bored. They are extremely RARE. If your outer bearing on the rear 60 has the numbers 104949 stamped on it your spindles can be bored no problem. So, anyone dumpster diving at the junkyard keep that in mind.

[Casey]

You're really doing something if you find a stock 60 with spindles that can't be bored. They are extremely RARE. If your outer bearing on the rear 60 has the numbers 104949 stamped on it your spindles can be bored no problem. So, anyone dumpster diving at the junkyard keep that in mind.
:lol: leave it to AMC.

Chris Durham has mine ('78 J-20 D60) right now and he said it can't be done. He did the Dodge axle for me.

edit: I don't think he said it couldn't be done, but it shouldn't be done. Wall thickness IIRC. He's in MOAB until... I'll ask him why when I pick it up.

[jeeper4life]

Looks like fun anyway!



If you want 35 splines and 1.5" shafts you'll have to ditch the stock D60. The spindles can't be bored. I have one over at the machine shop, now. He said no can do.
A D60HD already has them and many other D60 spindles can be bored to accept the 1.5" shafts. The one under my Chief is from a 3/4 ton Dodge p/u. IIRC the machine work was $150. Custom shafts cut and splined was just over $300.

Not cheap at all when you can find a D70HD or 14b for about $150.
I have a dana 60 boring tool that I rent out that will cut a dana 60 for 35 spline axles if you need. Erik

[NVJEEPER]

No problem getting back to the trailer, it was only 10 miles. Took the broken piece out and slapped the shaft back in, even recycled the oil in a zip lock bag! Kinda a buzz kill for the trail ride but the weather and scenery were *****en. Camping in the mountains is my favorite!

Your Jeep made that climb up the rock look easy and i thought you were climbing with 3 wheels. So you had a spare axle? and climbed with 4?

Looking forward to your next video(s):thumbsup:

[rockjeep44]

I have a dana 60 boring tool that I rent out that will cut a dana 60 for 35 spline axles if you need. Erik

That's not what he meant. There really are some 60s out there although they are rare, that cannot be bored. The spindle walls are not thick enough.

[Sambo]

nice waterfall:thumbsup:
to bad you broke! $hit happens right;)

btw i havent broke anything in my 14bolt in some 4 yrs now! and its welded thru the "windows" on each side of the carrier...